qadianis are kafir

qadianis believe that mirza is the last prophet so why does ny ahmadi call himself a muslim?

dear ahmadi please dont deceive people.

look at history and see for yourself mirza was a complete fraud.how can you defy the truth.

so much evidence has been provided on this forum that ahmadis are kafir and still ahmadis is blind…why? they have serious ego problem and continue to give money to poor to convert them to their kufr religion.Please dont give rishwat to the poor!!!

what does it take to convert a born qadiani to the right path.I know that most new qadiani converts become muslims after discovering the fraud mirza was full of contradictions.

any problem then mail me [email protected]

I raised this question before and doing it again,

How do you convert a Qadiani to muslim?

Please do this according to the practice of Holy Prophet (SAW) and Khulfa-e-Rashdeen.

so why does ny ahmadi call himself a muslim? <<<<

Sufi, when did I say I was a muslim? Are you a real sufi or the ones that come dime a dozen? Anyway, thanks for your concern, I will not give anyone rishwat to convert. Can I convert people by killing them first? Anyway, I like my cold beer and frequent trips to the track. Yesterday I won 24 grands on a trifecta bet. Man, life is good.

Stuff your version of Islam in your holy hole.

so you like your beer cold..........mirza was also an alcoholic.

ghulam mirza also had liver problems.

i see that you are also a betting man, win some you lose some .Enjoy your short life while it lasts, one day you will have to answer for it.

Originally posted by sufimaster:
** so you like your beer cold..... **

sufimaster do u know anyone who like the beer hot?

Sufimastubater, is your version of Islam (the gutter version) asks its followers to defame others to spread your crap? If your Islam is that good, why don’t you try proliferating it without telling others what is wrong with them?

Ullu, Sufi has no idea about beer or the good life. He likes his hafim and worships his ignorance.

Sufi Sahib, look at my name, do I sound like muslim. I asked a simple question, how do you convert somebody muslims (without killing him).

I am out
U next

Exactly what is being accomplished here? I see no discussion going on.

Only insults being exchanged.

Cut it out.

[quote]
Originally posted by Muzna:
**Exactly what is being accomplished here? I see no discussion going on.

Only insults being exchanged.

Cut it out.

**
[/quote]

i am with u...either discuss the topic or drop out...if u insult some one he will only insult u even more.....

dear ullu
drink as much beer as you can so you can pish in your pants............especially cold beer...... good for diuresis: the colder it is the more you drink.

beer smells why not drink some water.Your old man will suffer to see you with liver problems, you ullu.Also alcohol causes one to be mentally disturbed so much that people call themselves ullu......Have you ever heard of Wernickes-Korsakoffs syndrome?, or bi-polar disorder?

If you want to find out what these are drink as much beer as you can......then come to my clinic....for treatment with toxic drugs....

Alcohol kills...

I say we first fix our selves completely to call someone or some group kafir or anythign like that.. IF you think that you follow islam enuff that you can make the judgement then do it otherwise keep ur mouth shut cause not only it gives the wrong impression of whatever group you claim to belong but also hurts a human being who you call kafir.. which again i am sure no religion allows you to do.. laterz..

how do you convert somebody muslims (without killing him)<<

They must pronounce the shahaada. If you kill him, he won't convert, he'll just be dead.

precisely , and anyway dead ppl dont make good converts…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif

thought this may be relevent here.....

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani, the fonder of Qadiyanism or Ahmadism, so called Ahmadiya Movement in Islam wrote about prophesies of a prophet:

a. The Torah and the Qur'an admit that the most truthful evidence of prophethood are the prophesies, and

b. It is not possible that God's revelations be not confirmed by their fulfillment.

Let us examine the prophesies of the writer who claimed himself to be a prophet (nabi) and the Promised Messiah (al-Masih al-Maw'oud). If a single prophecy is not fulfilled, it would show that such a prophet is an imposter and a liar.

Rains and earthquakes
Ghulam Ahmad wrote, "God revealed to me that frequent rains will come down. Due to their frequency villages will be destroyed. After them will follow severe earthquakes". He did not specify where and when. If it was to be in India, there are some regions which receive a lot of rain and there are other areas which feel earthquakes. This is not a prophecy.

Abdullah Atham's death
A Christian, Abdullah Atham entered into a debate with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in 1893; neither succeeded in winning over the other. It was embarrassing to Ghulam Ahmad and feeling insulted, on June 5, 1883 he announced that he had been informed by God that Abdullah Atham would die within fifteen months, that is, September 5, 1894. Ghulam Ahmad supplicated to God for the death of Abdullah Atham by his announced date of death and he asked his followers to join him in praying for the curse to come true. The deadline came and went but Abdullah Atham lived and for a long time. Ghulam's invocations and supplications were of no use and Allah proved that he was not His prophet.

Multiple marriages
On February 20, 1886 Ghulam Ahmad declared that indeed Allah revealed to him that he shall marry blessed women and he shall have numerous children from these new wives. He was then 46 years old. The fact remains that he could not marry anyone after his declared revelation from Allah despite several efforts and a crush on Muhammadi Begum.

Marriage to Muhammadi Begum
Ghulam Ahmad at age 46 had a crush on a young lady by the name of Muhammadi Begum daughter of Ahmad Beg, one of his followers. Ghulam asked her father to marry her to himself which he refused. Ghulam Ahmad announced a prophecy that she will be married to him because Allah had married her to him and no one had power to turn away from that becoming true. He offered bribes of estate and wealth to Ahmad Beg. When it did not work he begged for his pity, brought family pressure and finally made threats. The first prophecy of marriage to Muhammadi Begum failed.

Ahmad Beg did not budge from his position and married his daughter to an ordinary soldier. Ghulam Ahmad prophesied that the husband of Muhammadi Begum would die soon and she would be married to him since their marriage had taken place in the heavens. He fixed a three year period for the death of the soldier husband of his beloved lady. Twenty two years later Ghulam Ahmad died but the soldier lived for another forty years and she lived even longer. The second prophecy of marriage to Muhammadi Begum failed.

A spark of the light of God
A son was born to Ghulam Ahmad on June 14, 1899 when he was 59 years old. He gave him the name, Mubarak Ahmad and declared, "this lad is indeed a spark of the light of God, the promised reformer, the owner of greatness and authority, possessor of healing breath like the Messiah, curer of diseases, a word of God and lucky. He will become famous in the four corners of the world, he will set prisoners free and through him all nations will be blessed."

Allah had His plan to prove once again that Ghulam Ahmad was neither a prophet nor "the Promised Messiah" by showing that He did not reveal anything to him nor inspired him with anything nor chose him a prophet nor divinely guided him (Mehdi). Mubarak Ahmad died of natural causes at age 8 in 1907, less than a year before the death of the false prophet and the false messiah.

The birth of another son
When Ghulam Ahmad's wife became pregnant, he announced on January 1, 1903, "Praise be to Allah Who bestowed upon me in spite of old age four sons and has given me good news of a fifth". On January 28, 1903 his wife delivered a daughter who died in infancy. This was first failed prophecy of a son.

His wife became pregnant again and he prophesied that she will deliver a son about whom he said, "the son of nobility will be born - a lad goodly-shaped and handsome." She delivered a baby girl on June 24, 1904. This was the second failed prophecy of a son.

Again a son
After two disappointments and proving himself to be a false prophet, he announced again that Allah had given him the news, "Verily, We give you tidings of a meek boy." He announced the date of the birth of the boy to be September 16, 1907 which was never fulfilled. This was the third false prophecy of a son.

In October 1907 he pronounced yet another revelation from Allah, "I shall soon bestow upon you a righteous boy" and his name was announced to be Yahya. Alas, the prophesied son never came and the false prophet Ghulam Ahmad himself died on May 26, 1908. This was the fourth false prophecy of a son.

A son to one of his followers
Manzoor Muhammad, one of his followers, informed him that his wife was pregnant. Ghulam Ahmad prophesied cautiously in stages that Manzoor's wife will deliver a boy from this pregnancy or from a later pregnancy and child's name will be "Bashir-ud-Dawla". After such safeguards in his prophecy he emphasized, "Manzoor Muhammad's wife shall not die unless she gives birth to this noble son and until his prophecy is fulfilled."

Manzoor Muhammad's wife delivered a baby girl and afterwards she never conceived and died without giving a boy. Doesn't it look like Ghulam Ahmad was working against Allah's Will?

The plague
Ghulam Ahmad feared plague very much and declared it to be one of his signs. He prophesied that the epidemic then ravaging in the Indian Province of Punjab will not enter his town of Qadiyan because it was the dwelling place of "God's prophet." God proved him a liar again. Plague spread in Qadiyan and in Ghulam Ahmad's own house; his maid and a few of his followers died of plague.

The death of Dr. Abdul Hakim
Dr. Abdul Hakim entered into a discussion with Ghulam Ahmad, challenged him to an open debate and called him a liar. Ghulam Ahmad did not take it very well and prophesied, "Abdul Hakim will die during my life-time as he insults and disgraces me." On May 4, 1907 Dr. Abdul Hakim responded with his own prediction that Ghulam Ahmad will die within fifteen months, that was by August 4, 1908. Ghulam Ahmad responded to Dr. Abdul Hakim's prediction by adding to his own prophecies:

(a) Dr. Abdul Hakim will die during the life-time of Ghulam Ahmad, and,

(b) Ghulam Ahmad will live to be eighty years of age, which was to be 1920 or later.

Ghulam Ahmad died within a year on May 26, 1908, at age 68 and Dr. Abdul Hakim lived for many more years to become an old man.

Ghulam Ahmad's prophecies and self deprecation

On various occasions when he announced a prophecy he would self-deprecate if the prophecy was not fulfilled. A few of his announcements are given below:

  1. "If what I have said does not happen exactly, I am prepared for every punishment. My face be blackened and I be insulted. A rope be put round my neck and I be hanged".

  2. "Prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satan, the evil and the accursed."

  3. Regarding his burning love and lust for Muhammadi Begum, a daughter of one of his followers, he said, "Her marriage (to me) is a settled affair. I swear by God that this is true. They shall not have the power to thwart its occurrence. God Almighty has said, 'We have ourselves married her to you, it is not possible that My words may change'."

Further, he said, "There is no changing of the Word of Allah. The meaning is that this prophecy of mine is bound to become true as the failure of its fulfillment falsifies the Word of God".

In fact, the Word of God is never falsified but a liar speaking in the name of God is exposed. He further said, "If this prophecy does not turn out to be true I shall be the most evil of the evils, ye fools!" Well! He proved himself what he was.

  1. "But if this prophecy is not from Thee, O God, then perish me in disgrace and total loss and make me accursed and peltable in Thy view."

  2. "For ascertainment of my truthfulness or my falsehood there is no better thing than my prophesies." Well! We know the truth, don't we?

Allah repeatedly failed Ghulam Ahmad in his prophecies to prove to the world that this man was a liar, an imposter and an inventor of a new religion which was not Islam.

References to the quotations and events mentioned in this brochure may be found in QADIYANIAT, AN ANALYTICAL SURVEY by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer, published by Idara Tarjuman Al-Islam, Shish Mahal Road, Lahore, Pakistan, 1981, Chapter VII, pp.184-226.

Cut the crap sufi....
If your being a muslim doesnt stop you from throwing ridiculous insults, then you can keep your islam to yourself...
At this time you are just a muslim....try to progress to being a human....

Aslamalekum.

One question! who is the judge of wether someone is muslim or not ? People as a general or Allah himself.

if your answer is Allah then ... why judge other sects of islam to be qafirs?

if your answer is no 2 then suni would be qafirs by Shia's point of view and shia would be qafirs from sunnis and all sects would qafirs by ismalies and so on ?

I myself am a muslim, and dont think that anyone who says he is muslim should be called qafir. If one says that since Qadainis are wrong in there theology and they are therefore qafirs then by the same logic all thiefs should be declared Qafirs too.?

One more thing... when you present an argument you should always refer quotes from both parties. the aritcle by pukadesi was very convincing about the "falsehood" of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed but he did not provide references and the one he did was from the Jamat ul Islami or somehting which would obviously be baised ...

Love to hear from anyone about the issues I rasied here

KH


Give Mushraf a chance!

thanks pukka desi, thats alot of evidence and it must have taken simple research and hard work.

as usual when you present evidenc eon gupshup of the falsity of mirza, ny ahmadi, ullu, faceup dissapear.

how can you bring such people to islam that dont believe in the truth.

if you dont believe in muhammad PBUH as the last prophet then you are a kafir, its as simple asthat nOVA.

as for calling shia kafir then its wrong because shia believe in the last prophet.

What it seems is this is not a discussion but a war of wits, and Sufi Sahib is unarmed. Even if he had any credible and valid points he lost his own credibility by not answering the question objectively, and by making personal and disperaging remarks towards a person, that he never met or have known personally. All he knows about him is what he has been told or have read in literature that was available to him which i am sure was biased to quiet an extent. One last thing Sufi Sahib before you ever brand anyone "Kafir" know the meaning of it and look at your own strength of faith and condition of your own faith then lable anyone. From your comments i doubt you carry any qualifications or that you are an authority in our religion, Islam.
Oh btw, i am not an ahmadi or anything else for that matter, just trying to be a Muslim, a plain old Muslim and I think there is plenty of work that needs to be done by each of us towards strengthing our own faith and we should focus on that rather than pointing fingers and name calling the others. If they want to call themsleves a Muslim let them, for they will be judged by that authority higher than any of us. If they are wrong they would be answerable for that. And if correct He (Allah) shall impart justice on them and shall rule in thier favor. We need not be the judges of what ever lies in others hearts but focus and work on solidifying our personal realtionship with Allah and making our faith deeper and stronger. May Allah guide us on the right path and give us strength to be undersanding and patient and be a Mutahid Ummah that was and is the living vision of our Prophet (MPBUH).

whoa…kaiser soda..i never though you were like into religion

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif

btw this is kami.

Sufimaster,

You a'int no sufi! Could you explain about the origins of Sufi Islam?