i'm not sure Mr Popat why you again and again try to twist what im saying :/ i know this is a typical Ahmadi habit :) anyway, i will repeat myself, no problem.
i said that only a MURTID is to be killed. not a by-birth ahmadi. i have never encountered a Murtid in my life. i cannot say how i will behave if i see a Murtid.
regarding marriage, i am ONLY making that point to show that ahmadis consider non-ahmadis kafir. i know of ahmadis who do not even attend JANAZA of non-ahmadis.
questioner_, who is a murtid?? someone who is no longer a sunni for sunnis or someone who is no longer a shia for shiaas?
Please let your fellow brothers and sisters know what behavior should be used if and when they see someone becoming an ahmadi muslim?
You are non-muslim because you're rejecting the fundamental concept of Islam.. the concept of Imam Mahdi (AS) to come to revive the true Islam. Whoever rejects Imam Mahdi will be a munkir of Imam Mahdi(AS). We shouldnt even be discussing that as you should know this better.
It is you who declare Ahmadis non muslim and then you go around telling people why they do not attend janaza of non ahmadis?
Its like you eating mango and asking me how it taste.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
and ahmadis say Pakistan is intolerant to them.
if that's the case, there would not be SO many ahmadi mosques in Pakistan.
the town of Rabwah would not be flourishing.
no matter how much people talked against prominent ahmadi personalities, nobody went and killed them.
there have been sporadic killings of some ahmadis - but then, even sunnis/shias/christians/hindus get killed in pakistan.
ahmadis pick every single incident and magnify it and transmit it to the international community to show that they are the target of victimisation in pakistan.
the point is, they want, that even with the beliefs they hold, Muslims respect them and treat them just like fellow Muslims. however, given such beliefs that ahmadis hold, that Mr Popat is JUST NOT POSSIBLE.
Mr Popat - i am open to the truth. as i said previously, what i read made it obvious to me that the author of such material cannot be revered. Mirza Sahab has spent entire CHAPTERS of his texts dealing with the arguments individuals made against him and defending himself against those, and then calling them bad names.
what does such writing say about the author?
what about the prophecy of Mohammadi begum which became false? I have seen a speech by your Khalifa Mirza Tahir defending that too.
and i have seen Ahmadis arguing that Mirza Sb was a Human so naturally he is allowed to make mistakes. please tell me, if he was getting Ilham from Allah as you guys believe, then why he made mistakes.
its all a big farce Mr Popat. I am sorry.
sorry to say this but your research has gone wasted, if u have done it. I honestly do not believe when u say u have done extensive research on Ahmadiyyat. It is not fair to see one side of the story and then believe it to be the truth. Have you honestly felt the need to understand His claims , his prophecies, his ilhaams? and anything that other people made fun of, have you honestly felt like looking for answers ? If you say yes, then i beg to differ, but you have not.
I see Muslims defending themselves what Jihaad means? why so? do you have any doubt in your mind wat jihaad is ? and how talibaans have understood it?? defending whatever is wrong is our right, and so is for anyone. We cannot let the rumours and heresay pass it on to generations after generations. It needs to be cleared up. Anything will be defended if its portraying in a wrong way.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Mr Popat - if a non-Muslim becomes an ahmadi, there can be no punishment for him. if a non-ahmadi Muslim becomes an ahmadi, he is a Murtid and is wajib-ul-qatal.
Mirza Ghulam Sahab was NOT Imam Mahdi. :)
Ahmadis do not attend non-ahmadi janazas because they believe that it is a janaza of kaafirs. They believe that the person who does not believe in Mirza is a kafir. Mr. Popat, I know this well enough :)
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Have you honestly felt the need to understand His claims , his prophecies, his ilhaams? and anything that other people made fun of, have you honestly felt like looking for answers ? If you say yes, then i beg to differ, but you have not.
yes i have. and unfortunately, as i dug deeper, i found MORE dirt. MORE contradiction. MORE fallacy. everything just CONFIRMED that ahmadiyyat is a farce.
regarding jahad, i do not have complete knowledge on that topic. however, Mirza Sahab encouraged his followers to give up jahad and become loyal to the British government. THAT was definitely not in accordance with Islam, as under the British empire, in many areas, Muslims could not even practice their religion freely.
and ahmadis say Pakistan is intolerant to them.
if that's the case, there would not be SO many ahmadi mosques in Pakistan.
the town of Rabwah would not be flourishing.
no matter how much people talked against prominent ahmadi personalities, nobody went and killed them.
there have been sporadic killings of some ahmadis - but then, even sunnis/shias/christians/hindus get killed in pakistan.
ahmadis pick every single incident and magnify it and transmit it to the international community to show that they are the target of victimisation in pakistan.
the point is, they want, that even with the beliefs they hold, Muslims respect them and treat them just like fellow Muslims. however, given such beliefs that ahmadis hold, that Mr Popat is JUST NOT POSSIBLE.
You are killing someone who say He is MUSLIM. Do you see the difference? think again please. You yourself said to kill someone who becomes an ahmadi and when ahmadi say he is muslim, you dont believe him? this is your problem. You first declare someone non muslim and then FORCE them to act like non muslim which isnt possible. You have no right to tell me what i shud or should not believe. If i say Muhammad PBUH is my prophet, He SAW is the perfect most exalted prophet for mankind, you will not believe me. This is your problem.
In pakistan you say they are treated equally? this is why i say to you to do ur research again. Heck, they cant even say Assalam o alaikum to Muslims.. this is the Islam which is practiced in Pakistan.. do you know ?
Please have one stance.. why do you keep moving here and there? Either you should kill ahmadis or you should not.. choose your pick.
Have you honestly felt the need to understand His claims , his prophecies, his ilhaams? and anything that other people made fun of, have you honestly felt like looking for answers ? If you say yes, then i beg to differ, but you have not.
yes i have. and unfortunately, as i dug deeper, i found MORE dirt. MORE contradiction. MORE fallacy. everything just CONFIRMED that ahmadiyyat is a farce.
regarding jahad, i do not have complete knowledge on that topic. however, Mirza Sahab encouraged his followers to give up jahad and become loyal to the British government. THAT was definitely not in accordance with Islam, as under the British empire, in many areas, Muslims could not even practice their religion freely.
lol, i need not to argue with you nomore. I know exactly where you have done your so called research. If i were to research something, i'd be neutral first. You or ur aalims will never be able to be neutral even for once.
i will say it again and again that your information is completely false. It is your own decision. As Allah says, whosoever is blind in this world will be blind in the hereafter.
Read the ahmadiyya literature with cool mind and the we can discuss. It is pointless for me to keep replying you on the issues which you can easily find anywhere on the official site or in books.. you will not read book....you like to take the easy way out and read anti ahmadiyya stuff to make you feel better about urself.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
as much as i want to get in debate with you and defeat your beliefs based on ur own beliefs, i highly doubt u have the knowledge of your own beliefs.. because if i do, you will have to go to your aalim and then as usual, follow him blindly.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Mr Popat. i have a very clear stance. i don't know if you simply didn't understand it or if you're deliberately trying to portray it as ambiguous. However, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and repeat myself :)
a sunni who is truly a sunni and understands Islam and then becomes ahmadi after knowing the truth of Ahmadiyyat would know that Ahmadiyyat is a farce. he would knowingly accept membership of a cult which all Muslim ulema have unanimously declared to be against Islamic teachings. so he would be rejecting belief for disbelief. that makes him a wajib-ul-qatal.
please tell me how can i believe you when your books and texts say otherwise? :)
Mr Popat, all ahmadis say as-salam-alekum in Pakistan :) even Christians say salaam. the law is another thing, but that law is just there, it never came into action. we all know that. Ahmadis are thriving in Pakistan. economically and socially. but they hide their identity still, as they want to be treated JUST like other Muslims, which is not possible given their erroneous beliefs, as i said.
this is a great conspiracy planted by the enemies of Islam. members of this cult go to any extent to add recruits.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
but coming to the topic.. whatever have u been told by whomsoever.. i want to say .. may Allah's curse be upon those who lie and make false statement. May Allah help His righteous people. Aamin.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Mr Popat, as i said, i have read ahmadi texts with clear mind :) and i have listened to speeches of ahmadi khalifas. and they only confirmed what i had read.
if being "neutral" means to forget my core Islamic beliefs, then ofcourse that's not possible :)
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Aameen to that Mr Popat. and i would also encourage you to pick the successive books of your Promised Messiah and read thru them. and then make up your mind. rather than blindly following this b/c you were born into it :)
Mr Popat. i have a very clear stance. i don't know if you simply didn't understand it or if you're deliberately trying to portray it as ambiguous. However, i will give you the benefit of the doubt and repeat myself :)
a sunni who is truly a sunni and understands Islam and then becomes ahmadi after knowing the truth of Ahmadiyyat would know that Ahmadiyyat is a farce. he would knowingly accept membership of a cult which all Muslim ulema have unanimously declared to be against Islamic teachings. so he would be rejecting belief for disbelief. that makes him a wajib-ul-qatal.
please tell me how can i believe you when your books and texts say otherwise? :)
Mr Popat, all ahmadis say as-salam-alekum in Pakistan :) even Christians say salaam. the law is another thing, but that law is just there, it never came into action. we all know that. Ahmadis are thriving in Pakistan. economically and socially. but they hide their identity still, as they want to be treated JUST like other Muslims, which is not possible given their erroneous beliefs, as i said.
this is a great conspiracy planted by the enemies of Islam.
Everyone value their lives. No one and i repeat no one would leave a belief and come to ahmadiyyat knowing that he will be killed. It is something one think so many times before doing. But when they do, he is more likely to be killed in the name of Allah then to be frightened and accept contradictory belief of yours.
As far as the law is concerned.. yes it is there. why? it is there for people like you who have so much hatred against ahmadis that if they like.. they can put them behind the bars.
will you personally kill a person who accepts ahmadiyyat to be the true Islam ?
Aameen to that Mr Popat. and i would also encourage you to pick the successive books of your Promised Messiah and read thru them. and then make up your mind. rather than blindly following this b/c you were born into it :)
you may not know me, but a lot of people here do. They know that my dad became ahmadi in his college times and has given me full freedom to choose what i like. I'd be an Ahmadi.. this is the only jamaat which makes a lot of sense to me. :) I have read books.. i encourage you to read books too and stop with the a line or two liner books :)
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Mr Popat.
i do not hate ahmadis at all. i have had some close ahmadi friends, and i used to have a very soft corner for them and thought that they truly are discriminated against when they told me about incidents. for a time i felt very bad for them. until i saw their reality and the reality of Mirza Sahab's writings. until i saw the manipulative ways of ahmadi jamaat. their hatred for pakistan and mainstream muslims. their illogical methods of running their jamaat. even now i do not hate ahmadis. i only pray for their guidance.
i would not like to put any ahmadi or any person behind bars. they are answerable for their own actions.
i did not say that i support all laws of the pakistani government!
most people accept ahmadiyyat because of financial gain or so that they can easily get asylum in foreign countries. ahmadi chanda system works wonders for poor people. plus ahmadis easily get asylum in foreign countries. ahmadi jamaat is financially sound and lures poor people.
however, i do not know of a single non-ahmadi Muslim who became ahmadi. i only know of non-Muslims who became ahmadis.
you keep asking me questions you asked me before :/ i told you before also, i do not know how i will behave if i ever faced a Murtid. if i meet someone who is ahmadi by birth, i will only try to show them the fallacy of their beliefs, if i get the chance.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
and before i stop participating here.. you say ahmadi parents dont talk to their kids if they marry outside of jamaat..
well, with my dad, it was also like this. The moment he accepted Ahmadiyyat and accepted it to be the true Islam, grandparents abandoned him. Why did they do that? if you can answer that question , you will get the answer of why people are kicked out of jamaat if your marry a non-ahmadi.
I infact have not seen my chacha and phuppo. Yes , there are times when i feel lonely, but by Allah, i feel proud every moment to be a part of this jamaat. Willing to give up anything to make this jamaat grow and spread Islam to every corners of the world.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Mr Popat. most ahmadis i know are more concerned about social boycott from their jamaat than religious theology. social considerations are a huge deal for them. any disloyalty to the khalifa means kufar to them. plus any such action for them means a disloyalty to their families.
most of them do not even know the ABC about Mirza Sahab's true teachings, neither have they ever read his books.
as i said, i have also read several passages from books, and 1 book of Mirza Sahab himself. i do also plan to read the complete books :) i have close sunni relatives (most of my family is religious and many of my elders have habit of reading most religious texts) who have read Mirza Sahab's books.
the only reason why so many people took bait in early ahmadiyyat is because they were misguided. they did now know how Mirza Sahab transitioned from being a Hanafi Muslim to saying wrong things about Islam.
further, most ahmadis say they became ahmadi because they say Mirza Sahab in their dreams. this itself sounds quite a tall claim to me.
Mr Popat.
i do not hate ahmadis at all. i have had some close ahmadi friends, and i used to have a very soft corner for them and thought that they truly are discriminated against when they told me about incidents. for a time i felt very bad for them. until i saw their reality and the reality of Mirza Sahab's writings. until i saw the manipulative ways of ahmadi jamaat. their hatred for pakistan and mainstream muslims. their illogical methods of running their jamaat. even now i do not hate ahmadis. i only pray for their guidance.
i would not like to put any ahmadi or any person behind bars. they are answerable for their own actions.
i did not say that i support all laws of the pakistani government!
most people accept ahmadiyyat because of financial gain or so that they can easily get asylum in foreign countries. ahmadi chanda system works wonders for poor people. plus ahmadis easily get asylum in foreign countries. ahmadi jamaat is financially sound and lures poor people.
however, i do not know of a single non-ahmadi Muslim who became ahmadi. i only know of non-Muslims who became ahmadis.
you keep asking me questions you asked me before :/ i told you before also, i do not know how i will behave if i ever faced a Murtid. if i meet someone who is ahmadi by birth, i will only try to show them the fallacy of their beliefs, if i get the chance.
Call me murtid.. I dont mind. In the eyes of people, i can be anyone..it does not matter to me..As long as Allah keep blessing me, my family and keep showing me the right path, this is all what is needed.
For your information, Pakistan is my country, Pakistan is a country of many Ahmadis, despite every hardship the face there.. you will hardly ever come across any ahmadi who hate pakistan. Infact, theres a nazm of 4th caliph about Pakistan. You must hear it.
anyway, enough already, you have said im non-muslim .. thats all you should say. You do not have the right to force me to become non-muslim too because i will continue to follow the footstep of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. The best of the best of prophets. SAW.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
Mr Popat can u tell us something about "Hazrat Teechi Teechi" the fastest angel of Mirza Sahab.
Re: qadiani/ahmadi population in pakistan/globally
start thread in religion forum.:)