With the name of Allah , The beneficiant the merciful.
I am starting this new thread about the concepts of rohaniat and ilm-ul-Ghaib in islam, are they jaiz, there practise, there benefits and drawbacks. The purpose of this thread is to get maximum info about theses things. And Please be relevent to the topic.
You can write any Aayiahs, Ahadith, or events in your life or things your heard about this topic.
With luv
NAly
[quote]
I am starting this new thread about the concepts of rohaniat and ilm-ul-Ghaib in islam, are they jaiz, there practise, there benefits and drawbacks.
[/quote]
The whole concept and the practice is innovation. Bitha which is forbidden.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Stupid Idiot: *
The whole concept and the practice is innovation. Bitha which is forbidden.
[/QUOTE]
Im-e-Ghaib is only with Allah, as we are told in the Quran, so that is something clear cut.
Then your second question is about 'rohaniat', which I believe be translated as 'spirituality'. Those who consider it a "biddah" merely display their lack of knowledge. What they don't understand, they consider biddah. Anyway, thats fine. Its probably not for them anyway.
Compliance with Shariat should be #1. The rest is optional.
[quote]
Those who consider it a "biddah" merely display their lack of knowledge.
[/quote]
so why dont my brothers help me understand what this is and how you achieve it.
I don't want to. For you, its only shariat. Focus on that. However, the lesson of the day is that if you don't understand something, that doesn't automatically makes it bad, it just means your comprehension may be defective. After all, insaan is called naaqis-ul-aqal for a reason. We jump to conclusions very quickly.
I seek forgiveness from Allah [sw] for anything wrong I've said. And I did jump to conclusion I will have to admit that as well. But please do let me konw what it is, becase i might be missing s'thing very important.
[quote]
. After all, insaan is called naaqis-ul-aqal for a reason.
[/quote]
By whome and where?
whats ilm-ul gaib
In this post i want all of you to concentrate on rohaniat. I hope many of you have listened that fallana buzurg is very"Puhncha Hua" or i think there were some buzargan-e-deeen sometime ago who were really walli-ul-allah(s), and i htink thta many people respect them. So I thikn Allah has also said in many quran verses that think about Me and the creation of this world. And many quran verses have special effects on our healths and our lives. "Chillas" and things like that exist in our society, maybe hidden nowadays!
and I think someone should first Define "Ilm-ul-Ghaib"
^
most of the 'stories' related to such ppl r just stories meant to fool ppl and gather money from them....
sufism in itself is rejected by Islam....
'chilla' and other such things take ppl away from Islam and the obligations put upon one by Allah....
^ Couldn’t agree more.
Here’s an article that I recently read. Found it to be a real eyeopener.
accoding to a report prepared by cheryl benard, on how to deal with the muslim world and what america's foreign policies shud be towards muslims, she stresses that muslims be pushed towards sufism....
suggesting that sufism is a way towards which muslims can be directed so that Islam will no longer be a 'threat' to the western civilization....
sufism in indo-pak derives itself from hinduism....
Sadiyah Thanks for the links. If you or any of the member know of any other good islamic site please do mention the links.
Can you base your thinking on Quran and Sunnah, it would be very helpful for others as well.
Please quote the exact verses.
Point one Every verse of the Quran has an impact on life, if understood and obyed like it should be. Incase you didnt realise I have change your “many” with every.
Point two. If the ‘health’ impacts you are talking about are told to you by Allah [swt] or by Muhammad [s] then you must belive in them. If they are told to you by some other ‘so called pious ppl’ Just ask those people who did they get to know of this impact which a specfic verse or any other thing will have on you.
Elaborate it further. Becuae what I understood from this is that there are s’kind of hidden ‘creatures’ or ‘packages’ which are kinda pandora box.
for instance :
My Grandfather in his young age did perform chillas and these things.
He had routines for 40 days with no meat only vegies!
and he did this to gain more power of controlling the urvoah or the spirits, after this he communicated with them and ask them question about past future and present! but he didn't tried it as a proffesion.
i've seen some of his books which tell the ways of performing these chillas and capturing and communicating with the spirits by only using the names of Allah and quranic verses, and secondly i noticed in those books that they were not home written but were not published on a huge scale, and they dated about sometime btw 1870-1900. and the pattern was like raviaats like someone tought by someone who studied at xyz jamia said or prescribed this chilla as .... !
and secondly i wanto confirm that if communicating with the jins and spirits is islamic if it uses the quranic verses and names Allah. and secondly i've exprienced some hullucinations and some visions in his house the were illogical. so if its present why do ignore it.
Just beucease our forefathers used to practice s’thing doesn meant we do the same.
He spend so much time just to seek control of spirits? I mean why not spend the same time to worship Allah [swt].
Pint one You have seen and probably have “some” of the books.
Point two: Allah [swt] revelead the Quran onto Muhammad [s]. Now if Muhammad [s] did tell anything such as using the specific verses or names of Allah [swt] for this use how can the author of the book write such things. Did Jibrael, the arch angel decent to tell him s’thign ?
Point 1: Published doesnt mean authentic.
Point 2: dating back to 1870-1900 doesnt mean authentic either.
Point 3: The only ‘raviaats’ which are a part of islam are those of Sahabas [the authenticated ones]. And you find them in the book of Hadiths. Other wise any one who has told xyz to do abc just cuz lmk told him to do that doesnt mean it is true or authentic. It is infact inovation in Ilsam.
If some spirits posses some spirt bodies I’ve heard in lecture that is fine to communicate with only for the sake of let go of the possesion held by the spirit.
Please elaborate what you are trying to say. I do not understand you properly.
I belive in Quran & Sunnah [hadith] not on imagination of xyz or mine. My creatoer who is the no doubt knower of all has told me what I need to know in Quran & Sunnah, so why ignore it?
Re: Q. rohaniat in islam
"Ilm-ul-Ghaib" is with ALLAH but HE bestows a minute part of it on someone whom HE wishes to bestow.and that can be achieved by infinite love for ALLAH and hazrat Muhammad(SAW).
Sufism is about love (ishq).Love that knows no boundaries,that people call u crazy and maniac.This crazy/maniac state is Bliss like ecstasy for the ones who experience it while others think WTH is wrong with him.
My Grandfather in his young age did perform chillas and these things. He had routines for 40 days with no meat only vegies! and he did this to gain more power of controlling the urvoah or the spirits, after this he communicated with them and ask them question about past future and present! but he didn't tried it as a proffesion. i've seen some of his books which tell the ways of performing these chillas and capturing and communicating with the spirits by only using the names of Allah and quranic verses, and secondly i noticed in those books that they were not home written but were not published on a huge scale, and they dated about sometime btw 1870-1900. and the pattern was like raviaats like someone tought by someone who studied at xyz jamia said or prescribed this chilla as .... ! and secondly i wanto confirm that if communicating with the jins and spirits is islamic if it uses the quranic verses and names Allah. and secondly i've exprienced some hullucinations and some visions in his house the were illogical. so if its present why do ignore it.
A.s
i absolutely believe in the presence of jins and spirits among us as QURAN also says it in SURAH JIN.chilla is actually reading quranic verses daily always at the same time and same place and through it we can understand the hidden truths of this world.if you dont agree,its your problem but what i said its true as my brother and me grandmother also did chilla and again its just reading of quranic verses in a specified manner,therefore nothing wrong in it.
Now suffism,as many our brother saying here that sufism is not correct in islam.can i ask them if they are born in indo-pak,there forefathers actually accepted islam on the hands of those sufiss and BUZUGAN-E-DIN.now,only because WAHABI-MUSLIMS are preaching that going on the MAZAR and suffiism is bidha,i dont thing what they say is always truth.we can see with our eyes thousands of muslims in indo-pak are beacuse of the suffism and BUZURG.and today.
The whole concept and the practice is innovation. Bitha which is forbidden.
Absolutely not. Not all bitha (bidah) is forbidden. There is a seperation between good and bad bidah. For example, the dots, the signs (harkaat) etc are a bidah. They didn't exist in the time of Prophet (Sallalaho Alahe Wasulum).They have been placed later on so the Quran can be made easier for us to read. Now realize that if that had not been done, not a single one of us would be able to read Quraan today. So that's a good bidah. There are lots of examples of good bidah that we see/experience in our lives, so if we rule them as forbidden, we would do lots of harm to ourselves and our deen.
As far as bad bidah, any new innovation which goes against the Shariah is bad bidah and not allowed.
Im-e-Ghaib is only with Allah, as we are told in the Quran, so that is something clear cut.
Then your second question is about 'rohaniat', which I believe be translated as 'spirituality'. Those who consider it a "biddah" merely display their lack of knowledge. What they don't understand, they consider biddah. Anyway, thats fine. Its probably not for them anyway.
Compliance with Shariat should be #1. The rest is optional.
Ilm-e-Ghaib (knowledge of the unseen) ofcouse Allah has it. Allah knows everything, but Allah also grants His Chosen People (Prophets, Sahaba, Saints) Ilm-e-Ghaib. As we know from Ahadith, Prophet (Sallalaho Alahe Wasulum) has already told us signs of Qayamat, but Qayamat still hasn't arrived yet. So that's Ilm-e-Ghaib which was given to Prophet (Sallalaho Alahe Wasulum) by Allah.
So our belief should be that Allah has Zati Ilm-e-Ghaib meaning He has it Himself, no one gave it to him, but Ilm-e-Ghaib of Prophets, Sahaba, Saints etc is Ataye meaning granted to them by Allah. They only know what Allah granted them, so the Ilm-e-Ghaib of creation is limited where as Allah's Ilm-e-Ghaib has no limits.
Ilm-e-Ghaib (knowledge of the unseen) ofcouse Allah has it. Allah knows everything, but Allah also grants His Chosen People (Prophets, Sahaba, Saints) Ilm-e-Ghaib. As we know from Ahadith, Prophet (Sallalaho Alahe Wasulum) has already told us signs of Qayamat, but Qayamat still hasn't arrived yet. So that's Ilm-e-Ghaib which was given to Prophet (Sallalaho Alahe Wasulum) by Allah.
So our belief should be that Allah has Zati Ilm-e-Ghaib meaning He has it Himself, no one gave it to him, but Ilm-e-Ghaib of Prophets, Sahaba, Saints etc is Ataye meaning granted to them by Allah. They only know what Allah granted them, so the Ilm-e-Ghaib of creation is limited where as Allah's Ilm-e-Ghaib has no limits.
AGREED
Many Roohani persons dont eat meat,they eat salads or vegetables.They have a murshid(teacher) and they have to do whatever he tells them to do.Roohani people dont have choices in life like normal people do,they will only do whatever murshid tells them to do.Murshid is everything to them.
They have to show utmost respect to the murshid like:
1.never turn back on murshid
2.kiss hands or feet when meet murshid
3.never look in eyes of murshid,always keep head low when talk
So much information on murshid for now,i will come later towards "murshid", its a whole topic by itself.
Roohani people perform chillas,if asked by murshid.However murshid can also give his powers to student(roohani person) through any way he desires,even when the roohani person maybe sleeping.
Utmost humbleness(aajzi) is the key to success in roohaniat.Humbleness towards murshid and towards ALLAH. The roohani person only gains through his love(ishq) for murshid,his clear conscience towards everyone and fulfilling 100% orders of murhsid.
Then he is given powers to help people. Some jinns or moakillat(powerful creatures made of noor(light)) are warded to him while he may also capture more through Chillas.
The jinns captured by him,call him Master(meray aqa,meray maalik etc) when he calls them.he can only give tasks to them that the jinns promised to deliver during their capture.
Example: if the jinn said I can kill level-3 evil jinn in an instant,then the roohani person cannot ask that jinn to do any other duty.Now,here is a dilemma,Power corrupts.The life of the jinn is in hands of the roohani person as jinn is his slave.so the roohani person can force the jinn to do other tasks,this is dangerous.the jinn will then lay harm to his master whenever he gets a chance.
Jinns and their world itself is a big topic to which i will come later.
The strength of a roohani person is known by the strength of his teacher,his backing.So if u go to roohani person,he will ask about ur name ,ur mother's name and maybe ur date of birth. Roohaniat is not complete without the knowledge of some other subjects, like knowing about astrology,stars etc.Numerology is a plus but not essential.