And queer being an IIT’ian – I wouldn’t debate with him on Mathematics, right queer !!! 
Man, I seriously hate you IIT’ians – you just had to talk about that number theory and algorithms and stuff…brought back nightmarish thoughts of my undergrad years
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/biggrin.gif
Tauhîd : It has three aspects; A, B and C:
(A) Oneness of the Lordship of Allah; Tauhîd-ar-Rububiyya: To believe that there is only one Lord for all the universe, its Creator, Organizer, Planner, Sustainer, and the Giver of Security, etc., and that is Allah.
(B) Oneness of the worship of Allah; Tauhîd-al-Uluhiyya: To believe that none has the right to be worshipped [e.g. praying, invoking, asking for help (from the unseen), swearing, slaughtering sacrifices, giving charity, fasting, pilgrimage, etc.], but Allah.
(C) Oneness of the Names and the Qualities of Allah; Tauhîd-al-Asmâ was-Sifat: To believe that : (i) we must not name or qualify Allah except with what He or His Messenger saw has named or qualified Him; (ii) none can be named or qualified with the Names or Qualifications of Allah; e.g. Al-Karim; (iii) we must confirm Allah's all qualifications which Allah has stated in His Book (the Qur'ân) or mentioned through His Messenger (Muhammad saw ) without changing them or ignoring them completely or twisting the meanings or giving resemblance to any of the created things; e.g. Allah is present over His Throne as mentioned in the Qur'ân. (V. 20 : 5): "The Most Beneficent (i.e. Allah) Istawa (rose over) the (Mighty) Throne" over the seventh heaven; and He only comes down over the first (nearest) heaven (to us) during the day of 'Arafât (Hajj, i.e. 9th Dhul-Hijja) and also during the last third part of the night, as mentioned by the Prophet saw , but He is with us by His Knowledge only, not by His Personal Self (Bi-Dhatihi), "There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer." (The Qur'ân, V. 42:11).
This holy Verse confirms the quality of hearing and the quality of sight for Allah without resemblance to others; and likewise He also said:
"To one whom I have created with Both My Hands," (V. 38:75); and He also said:
"The Hand of Allah is over their hands.": (V. 48:10, The Qur'ân). This confirms two Hands for Allah, but there is no similarity for them.
This is the Faith of all true believers, and was the Faith of all the Prophets of Allah from Noah, Abraham, Moses and Christ till the last of the Prophets, Muhammad saw . It is not like as some people think that Allah is present every-where, here, there and even inside the breasts of men.
These three aspects of Tauhîd are included in the meanings of Lâ ilâha ill Allâh (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah).
It is also essential to follow Allah's Messenger Muhammad saw : Wajûb Al-Itteba' and it is a part of Tauhîd-al-Uluhiyya. This is included in the meaning: "I testify that Muhammad saw is the Messenger of Allah" and this means, "None has the right to be followed after Allah's Book (the Qur'ân), but Allah's Messenger saw ". [See the Qur'ân (V. 59:7) and (V. 3:31)].
Knowledge will forever govern the ignorance. The people who want to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.
Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."
[This message has been edited by Bubble Buster (edited March 31, 2000).]
BB and irrefregable have shown with clear cut evidences and proofs which are very empirical, logical and scientific that math and most of the other stuff used in computers these days was in fact developed by Muslims. I am glad that we have some one on these forums who can speak for us. Mostly we encouter these half educated westrens like Nyahmadi, Zalim, Roman, Nova and many others who mislead and confuse people about Islam. Now finally Pak.org can stand up to its name. I say Allah be with these scholarly, logical and truth talking brothers.
Queer:
By saying: i dun like maths either
Are you indirectly trying to say that you don't like Muslims? Because as brother BB has proved above most scientifically, logically and empirically that we are the ones who developed math. By disliking math, which is the back bone of the modern science used by westrens today copied from us, you are showing your lack of respect for our religion.
I say if you don't know anything about math, keep your mouth shut. By saying things like that you are showing your lack of knowledge and respect. Peopl like you are burden on earth and should be sent to hell as soon as possible.
Najoomi
"By disliking math, which is the back bone of the modern science used by westrens today copied from us, you are showing your lack of respect for our religion."
Oh my God....I don't believe this !!!!!!!! This is unbelievable !!!!!!!
MUSLIMS FYI...SPREAD OF CHRISTIANITY
Christianity could not have spread had it not been for Constantine who wished to lead it, and therefore he took advantage of the internal disputes of the Church and in 314 AD, issued Milan edict in which he recognized Christianity and endowed it with his bountiful donations.
Charlemagne, who was very zealous, believed it was his duty to convert his neighbors to Christianity. He did not believe that dialogue availed in guidance. He chose the method of enforcement (Ma'rifah Encyclopedia No 8 p. 122). He spent thirty - three years fighting the Saxon ferociously till he subdued and converted them. It took him eight successive campaigns to defeat the Afrarinities whose accumulated treasures were plundered by Charlmagne (History of Medieval Europe by Fischer Vol 1 . p61),
Another reference claims that Charlemagne forced the heathen Saxons to embrace Christianity after they lost as a result of several battles and yield to Frankish Kingdom (Enhardi Fuldensis Annales, and Monumenta Germaniae Historica). St. Liudger and Willehad helped in the process of conversion to Christianity.
A. Dr. Gustav Lebon in his book Civilization of Arabs says: Egypt was made by force to believe in Christianity, and the inhabitants thereby degenerated to complete state of decay out of which they were picked up and delivered by the Arabs. Misery and wretchedness prevailed when Egypt was field of numerous religious discord before Arab conquests. Those disputes caused the Egyptian to kill one another and bear malice against Byzantine rulers. The people were looking forward to being liberated from the tyranny of the Byzantine Caesars (Civilization of the Arabs, p 336 Chapter 4 : The Arabs in Egypt).
B. In Denmark king Cnut spread Christianity in his regions or dominions by force and terrorism. "Then he subjugated the defeated peoples to the Christian legislature after fighting the Barbarians wildly, his impetus being to spread the creed " (The call to Islam, footnote p.30)
C. In Russia the Christian missionary work was spread by a group of people called "brethren of the sword" consider this, Your honour. According to another reference book we read : "As for the way how Christianity was adopted in Russia it was at the hands of Vladimier Duke of Kiev (985-1015) a descendant of Rurck. He was a perfect example of barbarism and unparalleled in lustful desires. He acceded to the dukedom over the corpse of the last of his brothers. He had three - thousand and five hundred women (Camb. Med. Hist. IV p.208 says in addition to five legal wives he had eight hundred concubines and mistresses). Nevertheless the Byzantine Orthodox Church regarded him a Saint because it was he who made Kiev and the Russians Christian. He commanded all the population of the Dukedom of Russia to be baptized at the same time in river Denieber (Fischer's, History of Europe in Middle Ages)
D. The Knights of Ordo Fratrum Militia Christ compelled the peoples of Levonia to embrace Christian by force (The call to Islam, by Thomas Arnold)
Thomas Arnold says regarding this region: "Presumably persecution and obligatory conversion replace the calm invitation to believe in the 'Word of God'." (The Bushgardians in Hungry were Muslims until 1340 when King Charles Robert compelled all his subjects who were non -- Christians either to embrace Christianity or quit the country)
E. In Norway King Olaf Trigfisan slew all the people who refused to be Christians; he cut off others' feet and hands and banished some others. In this way he spread Christianity in all Viken , South Norway.
F. Qudri Al - Qalaji writes in his book Saladin the Ayubite or the story of struggle between the East and the West during the 11th and 12th centuries: "Basilius II gouged out the eyes of fifteen thousand Bulgar captives, except one hundred and fifty of them for each of whom he left one eye only in order to guide the others on the return journey to their country. It was this Basilius that spread Christianity in Russia."
G. Dr. Ashur having treated the persecution that was closely associated with the spread of Christianity at the hands of Charlemagne and the massacres he committed against the Saxon and Normandians, he depicted the atrocities of the Tuton Knights and the Knights of the sword organization as they proceeded to spread Christianity, during the 13 th. and 14 th. centuries among the Prussians and Lithuanians and other Slav peoples. Then Dr. Ashur illustrate what Jesuit missionaries did, in 17 th. century, in India as they were ruthlessly spreading Christianity there. (The Crusade Movement part 1, p.30 by Dr. Ashur)
H. The geographical explorations of the Europeans were not merely for the sake of civilization, for example "Living stone wanted to explore in Africa routes for missionaries and not for the love of civilization" (Missionaries and Colonialism p, 51 by Dr. Khalidi and Dr. Faroukh). When he met his fate in Africa his comrades buried his heart under the tree where they found him dead, but the body is interred at Westminister Abbey in London.
The missionaries who accompanied geographical explorations committed the foulest deeds that do not befit humanity.
Vasco da Gama who discovered the route to India was a missionary. What did Christian explorers do to the natives of America, the red Indians? They simply annihilated them. It was the same doom that befell the civilizations of the Antilles and the Mayas in the south of Mexico, the civilization of Aztik in the middle of Mexico and that of the Anka in Peru (Missionaries and Colonialism p, 51 by Dr. Khalid and Dr. Farouk.).
Here is a quotation from the daily Beirut paper "Al Hayat" describing the exploration of Haiti island by Spaniards.
At first the officers and successors of the leader of the campaign were occupied in exploring Haiti (Hispaniola) and conquering it. There was still an extensive unexplored area in it. Diego Vlasquiz and Banfilo Dunarvis took charge of that. They committed matchless brutality such as cutting off the finger tips of natives and gouging their eyes, pouring boiling oil and molten lead onto their wounds, or burning them alive in order to know where gold was buried or to force them to be guided to religion.
A monk attempted to convince the chieftain Hanihey, who was tied to the burning device, to embrace Christianity and told him that if he was baptized he would go into paradise. The Indian chieftain asked him: "Are their Spaniards in paradise?" The monk replied : "Yes, of course they worship the true God." The Indian retorted: "Then I do not desire to go to a place where I can meet the savages of this nation". (Al hayat No 2494 of 23 rd June 1954 quoting "Missionaries and Colonialism".)
The Journal Cuba international Juolio 1972 under the heading "La Historic" p. 6 had a picture of a missionary holding a cross and of a chieftain tied onto a mast and covered with bundles of straw and wood reaching his waist (for burning). The missionary was lifting the cross to the chieftain's face and asking him to embrace religion before dying.
The Crusaders, whose emblem was the cross, witnessed countless atrocities. The Crusaders committed the most inhumane atrocities wherever they passed.
Dr. S. A . Ashur in his valuable book "The Crusade Movement" writes on p. 294, part I:
"When some of the people of Caesarea took refuge in the town mosque the Crusaders persuade them there and slew them altogether men, women and children, and the mosque was like a big pool full of blood of Muslims"
The massacre of Jerusalem in 1099 was a stain of disgrace to the first Crusade campaign according to European Historian [Greusset's History des Croisaders 1 p. 161)
Baldwin burnt down Alfarma big mosque and its other ordinary ones. Lebon says: "Ten thousand Muslims were in Omar's mosque only" (The civilization of the Arabs p. 326)
I. Let us quote Ibn Al - Adim : "In that campaign the Crusaders perpetrated many atrocities: they dug out the graves of the Muslims, carried the coffins to their tents and used them as containers for their foods, they stole the shrouds, they tied the feet of the newly buried bodies and dragged them before the eyes of Muslim spectators and shouted to the onlookers: 'This is your Prophet Muhammad, this is your Ali.' They took away a copy of the Quran from a shrine in a suburb of Aleppo and cried out: 'O Muslims! behold your Holy Book'."
The leaders in charge of the campaigns and particularly Louis VII, his spouse Eleanor and Raymond de Poitie committed shameful sexual scandals and outrages. In brief, European historian described all the campaign as being "Savage and barbarous." We should not be surprised at this description for the Crusades were dark pages in the history of all Europe.Did not the monks place bottles of wine on the sacred Rock? Did they not toll the church bells in the Aqsa Mosque after abolishing the Muslim call for prayers from upon minarets?
Are creeds and holy temples venerated in such manners? Keep in mind the instructions of Abu Bakr to the Muslim warriors which included among other things "to let the monks occupied with their worship places in hermitages safely"
Having discussed the shameful doings of the Inquisition Courts in Spain, Dr. Lubon in his book Civilization of the Arabs pp. 270 and 271 says: "The monk Bleeda was delighted when he slaughtered a hundred thousand emigrants out of a caravan of 140 thousand Muslims refugees on their way to Africa."
Then Lubon mentions the Muslims loss of three million victims slain, burnt and deported. Then on page 272 he say: "We cannot help admitting that we did not find among beastly savage Spanish conquerors anyone to censure for committing deeds of murder similar to those committed against Muslims."
J. Last of all discussing the history of the Christian Church on account of these crimes takes volumes, therefore it suffices to quote the book "Missionaries and Colonialism" p. 7 : "The campaigns of the missionaries were more harmful to our country than colonialism (imperialism) itself because the latter penetrated into our countries under the veil of missionary work the guilty conscience of which is responsible for modern imperialism with all its woes criminal offenses."
NOTE: This is not even a drop in the ocean about what Muslims have gone through for
1,420 years by the hands of their enemies. Was Pope's vague apology enough? I don't think so.*Now crusades have new names like *Ethnic cleansing/Genocide and Famine. Thanks to Christian missionary.
Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers[]. Noble Quran 3:85*
[This message has been edited by Irrefragable (edited March 31, 2000).]
** THE PRIMARY DUTIES OF A TRUE MUSLIM WHO FOLLOWS NOBLE QURAN AND SUNNAH!**
Spreading Islam as a doctrine, law and behavior on the basis of the Qur'an, the Sunnah (Prophet's ways) and the understanding of the pious followers of the Muslim nation.
Establishing correct Islamic doctrines deeply in the individual and developing a unified Muslim personality or character.
**Trying to direct Islamic communities **to submit to the law of God and to judge from His Law only.
Renewing scientific and propagational awareness as well as uplifting the educational and ideological level among Muslims.
Educating new generations according to Islamic doctrines and in accordance with Islamic norms and moral standards.
Confronting ideological and atheistic invasion.
Calling non-Muslims to Islam and propagating it among them.
Educating and Guiding Muslim Women.
Cooperating with Islamic organizations, calling propagational groups and striving to unify the Islamic communities according to the authentic law of Islam.
*Are you fulfilling your duty? *
Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*
Irrefragable and Bubble Buster:
Great posts, very informative.
Ghazi
Facts Are The Authority!
what the hell happened here?
didnt refrigerator or bubbly say something like " judge a religion by it's scriptures, not by it's followers"? and now why are they posting tons and tons of instances of atrocities by christians?
my guess is that this is a ploy to crash the TOPP servers by cutting-n-pasting whole websites on gupshup, or perhaps it's a plan to bore everyone to death with such loooooong posts that make dumb reading.
Queer, always running your mouth, or in this matter your keyboard, in nonsense. Don't bore yourself to death..no one is asking you to read Quranic translations and Hadith.
Obviously we recruited the wrong person as jasoos here at gupshup.
Muslim Scientists and Scholars
Muslim scientists and scholars have contributed immensely to human knowledge especially in the period between 8th and 14th century CE. However, their contributions have been largely ignored, forgotten or have gone un-acknowledged. On this site you can read fascinating accounts of some of the most talented Muslim scholars in history whose contributions have left lasting marks in the annals of science, astronomy, medicine, surgery, engineering and philosophy.
Click on the link below, learn and be proud
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/
Bubble Buster
“The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion.”
I'll be posting a plethora of facts and links.
I can say one thing to the people of darkside, boys life will never be the same again :)
Bubble Buster
"The true EVIL lies in IGNORANCE, not in suspicion."
Bubbly, maybe Muslim scientists contributed btween 8th to 14th century. But world has moved on 600 years after that and moved at fast pace.
The question is what are u upto these days and what made muslims lose competition with west? And what is point in sticking to past glories if present is miserable?
ZZ, are you hittin' the crack pipe again..
To all Muslims UsSalaamu-Alaikum!
I like to invite your attention to a simple fact that extrat ordinary claims requires extra ordinary evidence. So keeping Christians claims and their missionary deception we must consider the following.
How did the people in the New Testament look upon testimony? Did they think it a valid foundation upon which to base their eternal destinies? Or did they tend to throw out unfounded assertions and await hard evidence?
The people of Athens rejected the testimony of Paul concerning Jesus's resurrection from the dead (Acts 17:32). Paul had given them no hard, tangible evidence--just words. Paul, as Saul, rejected the testimony and visions of the martyr Stephen (Acts 7:56-60, 8:1-3).Stephen had only his words to offer Paul, and Paul found that kind of evidence to be unacceptable.
The Apostle Thomas, who had been with his fellow apostles for several years, who knew them on a daily basis, knew enough not to trust them any farther than he could throw them! When the other 10 apostles told Thomas that Jesus had been raised from the dead, he counted their personal eyewitness testimony to be insufficient evidence. In other words, he thought they were lying. He demanded hard evidence, and refused to trust mere testimony (John 20:24-25).
And all eleven apostles flatly rejected as absurd the testimony of the women who claimed to have spoken to angels at the tomb concerning the resurrection of Jesus. The eyewitness accounts of the several women "appeared as nonsense," and the apostles refused to believe without hard, tangible evidence (Luke 24:9-11).
Who are we to break with Bible tradition and example? We should not be so gullible as to believe outlandish, incredible tales, 2000 years removed and filtered through countless unknown editors--tales that were rejected by the very people who knew the honesty and trustworthiness of the witnesses! Thomas rejected mere words and demanded hard evidence. The 11 apostles rejected the mere words of women and demanded hard evidence. Jesus, according to the Bible, even offered hard evidence, as found inLuke 24:39.
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; touch me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.
And again, Jesus is reported to have said to Thomas in John 20:37, "Reach here your finger, and see my hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing."
There is no reason we should settle for anything less. They refused to believe without hard evidence, and even Jesus, if the account is true, was sympathetic to their demands for real evidence. Jerusalem refused to trust Jesus, the apostles didn't trust each other or their female friends, and Saul (Paul) refused to trust what any Christian said. Maybe that should tell us something about the quality of the witnesses!
It seems to me as if modern Christians are asking us to swallow a stew without thinking--a leftover stew that's 2000 years stale, that has gone by dozens of unknown cooks, each throwing in their own concoctions. We are being asked to swallow, whole, stale evidence, evidence that when fresh was rejected by Saul/Paul, spit out by Thomas, and vomited up by the rest of the apostles! Thomas rejected the fresh testimony of his best friends! And we are to believe the same testimony, now 2000 years stale, from people that to us are total strangers??? NO!!!
We're not talking about how history is determined. "Well, all we have are books that say George Washington existed," Bible believers will argue. "It's the same with Jesus." Oh, no, it isn't! Washington's best friends never denied he was president or whatever. Jesus's friends did deny that he had risen from the dead. And Washington never claimed to be a god! Jesus did. And Washington never asked that you spend your whole life worshiping him or even become a martyr and die for your belief in his godhood. Jesus did. And Washington never claimed to walk on water. He used a boat to cross the Delaware! And, most important, Washington doesn't have millions of deluded fanatics out trying to convince you that he rose from the dead, can live in your heart, or forgive you of your "sins." Failure to believe in Washington just means you're stupid. But failure to believe in Jesus, according to the Christians, means you are doomed to eternal hell fire! Nobody asked you to die for Washington, but they'll ask you to die for Jesus. A BIG difference!
I stand upon the same principles as those freethinkers in the New Testament, rejecting mere testimony of such UNbelievable fairy tales. Fantastic claims require extraordinary evidences. Be like the apostles: don't be swayed by clever sermons or someone's testimony. Demand a personal, in-the-flesh visit from this all-powerful god of the universe. Christians say that he is everywhere--even peeping over your shoulder as you read this. Ask! Demand a visit. Don't settle for anything less.
Know Evidence, Know Belief
NO EVIDENCE, NO BELIEF!!!
Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*
What a lot of people don't understand is that by gaining Islamic knowledge you don't become a perfect muslim.
Condemning others, using abusive language, degrading others, thinking you r the ruler of the planet and others are just crumbs, this kind of immature and impolite behavior does not guarantee a seat in Jannah.
People need to correct themselves first and only then they should try to preach others. Only when they have corrected THEMSELVES
Human equality in Islaam and Christianity. Side by side comparasion.
Answering Christianity.
Download FREE great Islamic Screen savers.
Learn more about Islaam and other religions including Pagan religion(s).
Click on http://www.aol40.com/
Irrefragable
*Islaam Is The ONLY Solution! ****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85
I am not sure about others, but as a believer I have much more than single reason to go to Jannah. I don't commit any major sin I have never committed any. I stay away with minor as well. I understand Islaam much better than most of ignorant Muslims and practice accordingly. I know for sure that I will be in heaven in hereafter. You must work to eradicate your profound ignorance about Islaam, if you are a Muslim. Stop hiding your ignorance in senseless statements and posts. Even if you read carefully what I have posted it will open your mind. I would love to see any of you discredit me with facts. You have no clue how a Muslim is required to behave and act. Read your own posts and read the teachings of Islaam, than get back with me. Don't just tell me that what guarantee a seat in Jannah and what doesn't? Grow-up and get a life. Every believer has a guarantee for Jannah. Some of the Muslims including you have posted messages out of ignorance that make you an ally of disbeliveers and your non-sense goes against Ummah at large. According to Islaam , I am not required to put up with that. If no one ever corrected you is the reason you have been hanging with equally ignorant person. I have posted the facts to get my point across. Learn from that.
Irrefragable
Islaam Is The *ONLY Solution! *****And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers]. Noble Quran 3:85*