[QUOTE] Originally posted by myvoice: *
**Silence or waffling now in the face of this French and Russian outrage can only make people assume that your previous stand against sanctions was based less on principle than on anti-Americanism.
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i couldn't care less whether Timbuktoo signs up against sanctions, i started opposing the embargo long before it has now suddenly become fashionable to do so.
Twelve years is sufficient time to build up justifiable caution - i will wait to see precisely what aspects of the embargo the US is in favour of lifting and what stance the US admin. will adopt vis-a-vis the:
New York-based escrow account
permitting 'dual'-use items
the distribution of monthly food rations
'Gulf War' reparations
For almost 13 years the admin. has been vociferously opposing the lifting of the embargo despite all evidence to the contrary that showed a genocide occurring. i want to ensure that the embargo IS well and truly lifted, that Iraq (or an interim, temporary UN department, NOT the Security Council) is given full sovereignty over all of Iraq's future financial transactions - before i rush to form any judgements. And most importantly, i want to wait and see what the US admin. proposes to do about each of the aspects above. A 12 year long genocide cannot be undone in one day.
Has Malik been teaching you these cheap courtroom tactics?
Myvoice is right. It is an outrage to see that France and Russia are still endorsing sanctions. What's more, I want an open accounting of the Sanctions Account at the UN before they endeavor to manage any more of this fund. (I heard one report that the account balance is over 5bil that had never been requested to be disbursed!, and it sits comfortably in a French Bank!) The account has been managed with the sole oversight of Annan, with little or no transparency.
This obvious squeeze of holding the US accountable for humanitarian conditions inside Iraq, but not releasing funds is an outrage, and pure politics, when the war is done, like it or not. Now we will really see if France and Russia care about the Iraqi people, or simply power and money. Additionally I would like to see how many shipments of aid are sent to the Iraqi's by those who would be their "friends" at the UN!
Whatever the US administration is in favor of lifting is more than the French and Russians are willing to do. Right? It is now clearly and openly the French and Russians that are the obstacle to lifting any sanctions on Iraq. Right?
I'm virtually certain that on more than one occasion over the past year and one-half, you have advanced the theory that the UN sanctions were really US sanctions and that the French and Russians opposed them and would vote to lift them. That theory sure seems to have gone to heck in a handbasket.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
*....I want an open accounting of the Sanctions Account at the UN before they endeavor to manage any more of this fund. (I heard one report that the account balance is over 5bil that had never been requested to be disbursed!, and it sits comfortably in a French Bank!) The account has been managed with the sole oversight of Annan, with little or no transparency. **
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Which account are you referring to? If the UN escrow account - that is managed by the members of the UN Security Council. It is in the complete control of the Security Council; the UK and the US have built up a fantastic record there of delaying or terminating contracts over the past several years that would have brought needed humanitarian goods into Iraq. Just do a search on how many times Benon Sevan, the executive director of the UN's Office of Iraq programme, has criticized the British/American delaying tactics vis-a-vis contracts.
Nadia:
Please explain to me what's so terrible about getting Iraqi oil profits out of the U.N. control, putting it in an Iraqi Central Bank fund to be administered by the Iraqi Interim Authority (IIA).
"current versions of the resolution offer specific plans for the Iraqi oil industry, moving its profits from U.N. control to an Iraqi Central Bank fund to be spent on reconstruction activities designated either by the Pentagon-run Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance headed by retired Army Lt. Gen. Jay M. Garner or by the Iraqi Interim Authority (IIA), once it is in place... "
And for a moment I really thought all the Americans were genuienly concerned about the welfare of the Iraqi people. Should have known, there was a hidden agenda, to transfer the money to the invaders.
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*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Nadia:
Please explain to me what's so terrible about getting Iraqi oil profits out of the U.N. control, putting it in an Iraqi Central Bank fund to be administered by the Iraqi Interim Authority (IIA).
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The money belongs to the Iraqi people not to Jay Garner and his cronies and not to Bush and his administration to give contracts to their chums.
i had a feeling you would ask that. The article states >>…either by the Pentagon-run Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance headed by retired Army Lt. Gen. Jay M. Garner or by the Iraqi Interim Authority (IIA)…<<
So it can either be Garner, or the IIA. IF it is the latter (which has not been determined yet), we are all aware of what type of individuals will be assigned that authority. The Ahmed Chalabis of this world who probably could never make their way from Baghdad to Najaf by themselves since they haven’t stepped in the country for several years. (And who are wanted for embezzlement).
If Jay Garner is granted overall responsibility for supervising profits from Iraq’s oil industries - well, you can appreciate how hypocritical that sounds. Get ready for bin Laden to issue a tape to al Jazeera about how the US is exploiting Iraq’s natural oil resources by having an arms trader exploit Iraq’s wealth.
Oh. I get it. You think the $5 bil stuffed in French bank accounts by the UN (read OhioGuy’s post above) is closer to the Iraqi people than money would be in an Iraqi Central Bank to be administered by the Iraqis who will lead the Iraqi Interim Authority.
The money is under UN account in France, if the above report is to be believed. After all OH heard the report somewhere, and not under the control of theives like J Garner. Big difference.
I'm rather well versed in courtroom tactics. You'll be surprised if I told you what I done for 10 years.
Getting back to my question, it was kind of you NOT to answer as I suspected.
However, moving on, it is absolutely ironic that you Americans have all of a sudden become so concerned for the Iraqis after killing 000's over the years and in weeks, that sanction lifting is now top of your agenda.
Why should the sanctions be lifted on the say so of America?
What jurisdiction do you really have in Iraq, apart from being Invaders. Similar to how you overlook the invasion of a sovereign state, funding of terrorists, slaughtering of people and call casualties of war as just 'part of the package'. It is absolutely imperative that France and Russia keep you at bay. The sanction lifting ploy from America is only a red herring.
Unfortunately for America, it is a lose-lose situtaion. You have dug such a deep hole over the years with your lies, hypocrisy, quadruple standards, bully boy antics and under hand dodgy dealings, that most nations are beginning to realise what America is really about.
The real outrage is that America actually believes that is an intelligent country and can dictate to the world.
It might be an idea to research history and check how many other nations perished when they became too big for their boots.
America is no different and is riding the same gravy train!
Sanctions should only be lifted, when the rest of the world agrees and not when John Wayne says so.
Average price Iraqi oil sold for during Jan and Feb 2003? Ranges from a low of $26.70 to a high of $28.70. Never once did Iraqi oil actually sold even reach the quarterly averages?
Why?
Because Saddam got to pick and choose the “middlemen” that would market the oil on the open market. The actual amount sold varied between 2 million and 8 million barrels per week with the average being around 5 million per week.
So if you sell 5 million barrels a week at say $27.70, and the Saddam approved middlemen are able to resell it at $29.13 on the market, then that makes a little over $7 million in a week, or over $370 Million in annual PROFIT!
Who are these people who are so grandly ripping off the Iraqi people! All Russian! They would agree to put a slice of these profits back into accounts overseas for Saddam’s personal use!
And you guys are worried about Hallibuton!
On top of that there is a 2.5% cut of all the oil that is paid to the UN, which employs of 3,000 workers just to push paper. A rough cut at this number and you get a paper pushing program at the UN that costs over $130 mIllion per year!
So just waste in the program through paper-pushing UN clerks or crooked middlemen adds up to over half a BILLION in oil revenues that the people of Iraq are NOT getting to pay for food medicine and reconstruction.
So please spare me the whining about the Oil for Palaces program. Under UN guidance it morphed into one of the worst abominations possible. Time for that to end.
Now you understand why Putin is pi$$ed.
Ooops, slight edit. The UN gets 3% of the oil sold. 2.2% for the UN, .8% to fund the weapons inspectors! No wonder the weapons inspectors want the program to continue! If it stops they lose their jobs!
I am not faulting the actual food that was distributed to the people. the massive skimming, diversions, smuggling opportunities, as well as the control given to the Baathist government created an absolute cesspool.
What I have tried to point out is that the Russians have a huge vested interest in continuing this program which puts enormous funds in the pockets of the Russians. You guys gripe about a $900mil contract to Haliburton, which in it's best year makes a 10% profit. That's $90mil in profit one time. The Russians have made three and one half times that amount EVERY year for the past 10 years. Such is the price that is extracted for dealing with "consensus" in the UN.
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i believe, this is not backed up by evidence. i have shown repeated times in the past, in this Forum, that there was not massive skimming; infact, i have posted sources from the UN. Some of the revenues from smuggling (albeit not all) went towards paying the wages of Iraq’s civil sectors - wages that are not, and never were, covered under the terms of the embargo. Where else would Iraq’s teachers, doctors, etc., get paid ? The government, for all its faults (and certainly there were many) utilized part of the revenues from smuggling, towards the people of Iraq. This article provides a few more details on this issue.
Has Malik been teaching you these cheap courtroom tactics?
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LMAO!! You sound like a lame duck. The sole reason you guys are new converts is because the US is in power now. There is still a chance you can find WMD - laughable really. But if he does have them as you claim, if the equipment imported gets in his hands. Bye bye americans. Do you really want that?
Ohioguy you show all these oil figures. Then why did the US allow him to sell the oil. They could have blocked it. It went straight to Saddams pocket. Why not stop him over the past 10 years when he sold oil illegally? The US never even tried.
