Putin taunts Blair: Is Saddam sitting in bunker ready to blow the place up with WMD?

The danger of Saddam using WMD is significantly diminished! Reason enough!

Here is a pretty good analysis of the Russian position, which, ironically shows him calling for a suspension of sanctions in 2001 if Saddam let inspectors back into the country:

Sanctions were imposed on Iraq on the basis of suspicions that it held weapons of mass destruction. Sanctions can only be removed if there is no suspicion and it is only the (U.N.) Security Council that can remove these sanctions because it imposed them in the first place," he said.

The United States is planning moves at the U.N. to end the sanctions, imposed on Iraq after its 1990 invasion of Kuwait, and to start phasing out the U.N. oil-for-food program.

But Putin said that far from wanting it to be phased out Moscow wanted the program – in which Russian firms were very active players before the war – to be extended and kept under U.N. control.

At the root of Moscow’s concern is that once sanctions are lifted and the oil-for-food program ended, the United Nations will no longer have any control over Iraq’s considerable oil sector.

Russia’s worst fears are that the Iraqi economy would then be controlled – for some time at least – by Washington and its war allies – and Russia would have to fight hard to defend its considerable oil industry interests in the region as well as recoup the $8 billion it is owed by Iraq from Soviet times.

HUMILIATED BY WASHINGTON

But analysts said that after being humiliated and ignored by Washington in the run-up to the war on Iraq, Putin, who will seek a new, four-year term in office in March 2004, had no choice but to take a tough stance on the lifting of sanctions.

They said Bush has little to offer Putin now and there is no real reason for the Kremlin leader to compromise himself at home.

“Putin spent two years crafting his partnership with Bush and he made some serious concessions, many of which he has not been forgiven for. Then at the moment of crisis he was simply disregarded,” said Viktor Kremenyuk, deputy director of the Moscow-based U.S.A.-Canada Research Institute.

“On the eve of elections it is not a good position to be in. So, this display of force is not so much for the Americans but for voters at home,” Kremenyuk added.

Putin’s tough stance, which sets him on a new collision course with the Bush administration, was the more surprising since Washington signaled that it sees France as the real villain of the anti-war camp rather than Russia.

Bush, in a television interview on April 24, made clear it was France that was likely to be on the receiving end of U.S. post-war displeasure. French President Jacques Chirac, Bush said, would not be “coming to the ranch any time soon.”

Whether Putin will get his name again into the visitors’ book at Bush’s Texas ranch in Crawford – he went there in November 2001 when his friendship with Bush was just budding – still remains to be seen. A possible new confrontation comes at an untimely moment for Putin who at the end of May is hoping to attract Bush, Blair, Chirac and other world leaders to glittering festivities in his hometown St Petersburg to mark the 300th anniversary of the old Czarist capital.

He would not want the birthday party to become a bear-pit.

U.N. LEVERAGE

Ironically, in early 2001 Russia found itself in the position of pressing for the sanctions to be relaxed, saying they mainly harmed Iraq’s civilian population.

At the time Russia proposed sanctions be suspended if Iraq agreed to allow a resumption of inspections to ensure it held no banned weapons.

A permanent member of the Security Council with the power of veto, Russia prizes the authority of the U.N. which is one of the few bodies where Moscow retains some of its former superpower clout and can exert leverage on Washington.

After the buffeting the world body sustained in being by-passed by Washington in the decision to go to war, Russia is keen to see a central role restored to the U.N. in settling Iraq’s future.

“Putin made a show of Russia’s position over sanctions because at the moment it is the only leverage Russia has over the United States. Russia’s plan is to force the United States to return to the Security Council where Russia’s role is crucial,” Kremenyuk said.

“Relations with the U.S. will remain vague for the time being. Putin will only lose from any knee-jerk moves. He is entering the election phase and that overrides everything,” he added.
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=2660862

So CM, do you want sanctions lifted or not?

Ok so as the threat has dimished, though it is still there, with his loyal Feyadeen troops that attack US soldiers during peaceful marches, you want to import stuff that can be used in a WMD missile or secret lab?

My view is all over the forums. They never changed since day one.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by chosen1: *
Also you state that everyday the sanctions are there it constitutes attempted genocide of the Iraqi people. At least you have now admitted that by imposing the sanctions genocide was being carried out.
[/QUOTE]

Hey... I'm a convert. When the UN Security Council UNANIMOUSLY voted in favor of sanctions (with the express blessing and support of people like Chomsky), no one thought it would have the disasterous results it did for the Iraqi people. Too many Iraqis have died. Every day that goes by with sanctions is genocide.

Now, only two members of the UN Security Council are standing up urging that the sanctions be lifted: the US and UK. Are you with us or against us. Are you with the Russians and French opposing sanctions? Are you in favor of genocide?

It must really bug the heck out of you that you might (MIGHT) just have to support a US policy huh?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *
Now, only two members of the UN Security Council are standing up urging that the sanctions be lifted: the US and UK. Are you with us or against us. Are you with the Russians and French opposing sanctions? Are you in favor of genocide?
[/QUOTE]

10 years of genocide i guess dont matter. You defend those before. We all know you are lying. So why even bother. Just say it:

The reasons the sanctions should be lifted is because the US controls Iraq now.

Interesting that you now agree that the Fedayeen attacked soldiers during peaceful marches.

I think that the dangers of anybody importing and assembling and using WMD in Iraq is laughable at this point.

The only thing that is preventing the removal of sanctions is power, money and anti-americanism.

Ironically it is the same Russian and French postions on Iraq that barred the UN from setting up tribunals to try Saddam for crimes against humanity. THAT should have been the real core issue for this war, NOT WMD.

The pathetic position of the French and the Russians is becoming more transparent....

Sarcasm isnt in your dictionary is it? Why is it laughable now?

Saddam is gone, probably a big pink misty cloud. Without Saddam, and his key henchmen, no one is really interested in WMD. They want peace stability and freedom. They have the right to their oil revenues without siphoning it to palaces, private zoo's for Uday, gold AK-47's, and the the excesses of a mad man.

The risk to neighboring countries has been removed. Terrorist camps in the north have been destroyed. Scientists are in custody, and can answer questions without "minders" present, and there are thousands of men searching for WMD unimpeded.

Issue closed.

Let the rebuilding begin!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
...
I think that the dangers of anybody importing and assembling and using WMD in Iraq is laughable at this point.....
[/QUOTE]

It was even laughable before war, but you took it seriously.

To be precise :k:

"It was even laughable before war, but you took it seriously."

The Kurds and the Iranians also take it seriously.

Russia obviously knows that the lifting of sanctions will give the US a free run and will jeopardise the Russians position. The lifting of sanctions will only make America more fruitful, because the Iraqis surely won't see any benefit from the lifting of sanctions and the subsequent oil revenues, building contracts, arms sales, night clubs, bars, strip joints, crack houses, homicides, racial profiling, and Jerry Springer shows!

All of a sudden, the remaining of sanctions becomes genocide as one American Guppie puts it.

The question in light of the above statements begs to be answered on why then was the 12 years of sanctions not genocide when it suited Americas interests?

Wait for the excuses now.

The sanctions should of never been approved in the first place, however, the Russians are right to object and put as much thorns in Americas way. If this will have a negative effect on Iraq, then so be it as America didn't give a toss for Iraq when they wanted their way, so why should anyone else. Isn't America the role model for the world?

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by sholay: *
**If this will have a negative effect on Iraq, then so be it
* as America didn't give a toss for Iraq when they wanted their way, so why should anyone else.

[/QUOTE]
Thank you for wrapping it all up in one tidy sentence. To hell with the Iraqis, as long as it doesn't benefit the US - that's the motivation for most of the posts here.

You're welcome Seminole.

The Truth does sometimes hurt.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by myvoice: *

Hey... I'm a convert. When the UN Security Council UNANIMOUSLY voted in favor of sanctions (with the express blessing and support of people like Chomsky), no one thought it would have the disasterous results it did for the Iraqi people. Too many Iraqis have died. Every day that goes by with sanctions is genocide.

Now, only two members of the UN Security Council are standing up urging that the sanctions be lifted: the US and UK. Are you with us or against us. Are you with the Russians and French opposing sanctions? Are you in favor of genocide?

It must really bug the heck out of you that you might (MIGHT) just have to support a US policy huh?
[/QUOTE]

Good to know that you are converted. So you can start with an apology for the genocide which you have acknowledged might have taken place.

Secondly as I have said before and you quite conveniently ignored it, go to the UN and admit your war crimes and ask the UN to lift the sanctions. Simple enough, but try selling the idea to the right wing buffoons on capital hill.

"If this will have a negative effect on Iraq, then so be it"

Sholay=Madeline Albright!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ohioguy: *
"It was even laughable before war, but you took it seriously."

The Kurds and the Iranians also take it seriously.
[/QUOTE]

yes sure, they did take it seriously, but seriously you took it seriously.
Hint: 40 days passed no WMDs, thousands killed, more being killed... all in name of liberation.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Changez_like: *

yes sure, they did take it seriously, but seriously you took it seriously.
Hint: 40 days passed no WMDs, thousands killed, more being killed... all in name of liberation.
[/QUOTE]

Liberation Of OIL Fields :-)

I really don't mind being called Madeline Albright or anything else for that matter.

But the question still remains, when America was shafting Iraq for donkeys years, was it alright or not?

YES OR NO please.

Looks like i am missing on all the fun :clown: i am afraid i haven’t read all the replies in this thread. i don’t have time to read them all right now so i’ll respond to the ones that i glanced through directed specifically at me.

OG, your “favourite Canadian” certainly still wants the sanctions lifted. i am not certain what to make of the hypocrisy of some of these statements. My good friend, MyVoice, stated that >>Every day those sanctions are in effect constitutes attempted genocide of the Iraqi people.<< i am astonished to read this statement from MV. Genocide is not based upon whether or not your government is in favour of a particular policy; it was genocide regardless of the US admin’s stance. It was genocide twelve years ago, not when one country decides overnight that this particular approach is wrong and merits re-evaluation.

Anyways, be that as it may. Yes of course, i am in favour of lifting the sanctions. We have to be extremely careful, i believe, of not falling into a trap where the words ‘lifting sanctions’ signals somehow an end to the humanitarian disaster the Iraqi people are currently experiencing. Lifting the sanctions, in totality, entails that ALL aspects of the embargo upon Iraq be lifted; that the country be ‘permitted’ (all sovereign countries possess this fundamental right, not privilege) to trade with whomsoever it chooses - as Iraq used to do previously. If this entails that Iraq will enter into financial transactions with Iran, France, and Syria - so be it. It is a sovereign country. Lifting the sanctions in their entirety, demands that the New York-based UN escrow account be dismantled and FULL - i repeat, FULL - responsibility and supervision of that be placed in the hands of a temporary UN department that is established as an interim authority until a truly democratic Iraqi government is elected. That means the UN Security Council has to get its hands out of the escrow account - period. Distribution of monthly food rations have ceased since the invasion took place - it is imperative that be restored.

Lifting the sanctions is wonderful. It cannot come a day too early. But the terms upon which the embargo is lifted, deserve close inspection. Let’s not assume that lifting the embargo will do away with twelve years of genocide. It is not that easy to undo a manmade humanitarian disaster that was deliberately caused. It will take generations to repair the infrastructures, and generations more to repair the social fabric of the country after its people have buried more than half a million children.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
Anyways, be that as it may. Yes of course, i am in favour of lifting the sanctions.
[/QUOTE]

Well, for the love of all you believe in, join me in ranting against the unprincipled stand of Russia and France in opposing the immediate lifting of sanctions. Use all your tools of persuasion to help the former anti-sanctions Guppies to do likewise notwithstanding that the US and UK now share this position with you.

Just because Russia and France shared some of your beliefs before is not a reason not to condemn them now for taking a stand against lifting sanctions that will only cause more pain and misery amongst the Iraqi people. And just because the official US position on lifting sanctions is the same as yours was a month ago is no reason for you to now oppose sanctions or not speak out against those who keep them in place.

Silence or waffling now in the face of this French and Russian outrage can only make people assume that your previous stand against sanctions was based less on principle than on anti-Americanism.