Re: Purging GS of Extremists
^^ till the 16th Century?
Islaam does not change with time. Its still not allowed. So what if people have started doin it, its still as haraam as it was back then.
As the Prophets hadith goes, "All artists will burn in hell".
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
I don’t know about what’s allowed “under Islam.” The Quran has stayed the same since it was revealed, it was only the people, scholars, caliphs etc etc who’ve passed judgement saying this is allowed or this is not allowed; if the Quran says that making photographs/paintings/drawings any artwork etc etc of living things such as aniimals or people is wrong, then it is wrong, in the 1500s and inthe 2000s and in between.
As for your signature, that’s a very twisted view and mainstream Muslims don’t hold the view that making a car is haram; it’s akin to saying that wearing jeans underneath an abaya is wrong or wearing a thong or the color red is haram.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
^ Yes till the 16th century, All islamic painting until then was in the form of miniature drawings. People couldn't even draw a lifelike rendition of themselves, a dog, a horse..nothing. because it was considered blashphemous. There were two great schools of islamic painting in the muslim world, one in herat and the other in istanbul. The turks in the 16th century repealed the law that had been in place since the time of mohammed. So all the pics you see in IMG 2 of your nephew and nieces, your gf and wife..would be considered blasphemous until then and you and the artist would have been decapitated.
The influence of the renaissance finally got through to islamic lands in teh 16th century and changed that.
Does it say anywhere in the quran that making lifelike picture of mahammed or anyone is not allowed.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Sara516: Although I don’t like to see people rebuking Islam as totally false and a total made-up sham, people have the right to believe what they want to. You can only ask someone to believe in Islam, you can’t force them. Force is not permitted in Islam itself.
So rejecting something that is in the Quran, doubting the validity of hte Prophet, saying most hadith are worthless doesn’t seem xtreme to you?
First off, ultra-liberal is not what I equate with what you just described…
Mullahs who describe people as ultra-liberal are girls who wear jeans and a t-shirt to Miccy-D’s to get a McFlurry with their male college friends.
And to be a hadith rejector does not necessarily mean that person doesn’t believe in the Quran. I personally do not outright reject hadith (I might as well address it, since Sharaabi was basically talking about me, although he’s not decent enough to just be str8forward in his accusation), I don’t believe that State has the right to ENFORCE and make into LAW (i.e. if you break it there is some punishment for it) based upon something that is in some Hadith, but is not directly mentioned in the Quran. Examples would be enforcing that musicians are not permitted to make music (as you see happening in NWFP), or enforcing a burqa dress-code or enforcing namaz by sending in mohtasibs in to monitor people’s daily habits (also in the process of happening in NWFP).
Now what I say is the definition of extremist, I have already posted it - please refer to that definition. An extremist is one that will use violence to make you believe what they believe. On GS board, they will use violent language and threats.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
“All artists will burn in hell”.
Even ones that do Quranic calligraphy as an art???
P-Diddy, this thread is not about whether one should draw a pictorial representation of the Rasul. Go open another thread, and stop mucking up mine.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
PcG thats just your definition of extremism and iam sorry to say it does not apply globally.
You wanna see some ultra liberal pakistanis, go to Pak 1 and you'll find some. You displayed some characteristics of them too, when you said to me: "Islamic Law...my foot"
and stop defending the munqar e hadeeth. You reject the hadith, you reject the way of the Prophet and who ever rejects the way of the Prophet is not a Muslim, period.
The hadith regarding the artists was solely for those who drew human beings. There are a lot of Sahih Hadeeth on that topic.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Then specify that before you post something so categorical like that.
Don't even try to say whether other people are muslims or not. Was it not you who played a part in the stealing of my tasweer from mod forum when I was a moderator? And that's muslim behavior? When you point a finger, there are 4 more pointing right back at you, so I'd be careful in who I accuse.
And I've always said that I don't totally reject hadith, but rather have different views on whether or not they should be implemented into law since their foundation is shaky, unlike the Quran. So, don't say that I reject the way of the Prophet - that's utter bull. Try following the way of the Prophet yourself by respecting other Pakistani muslim girls and not playing with their feelings or their pictures.
And don't take my quote out of context. There is more to it than "Islamic Law my foot". I was talking about how people call their laws "Islamic Laws", and then expect people to buy their BS.
You are an utter waste of time, and your posts show how despicable you really are as a person.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Furthermore, if you'd like to argue with me, then feel free to PM me or open up another thread.
Don't distract from the topic which is how we should be dealing with extremists as an internet predominantly muslim community.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
You had stepped in digi…just two seconds ago, and you spotted the words Islamic Law, and the first words to come out of your mouth were .. Islamic law…my foot. Dont try to manipulate stuff now, there were quite a few people there, witness to what you said.
And how could i steal your tasweer from Mod Forum .. when i was never a mod. You need to do more research on that incident, you’r still far away from the truth.
And yeaa…when you get agitated and run out of arguments resort to name-calling and cussing, really shows what kind of a ghatiya insaan you are.
PS. I never thought I would ever talk to a girl in this manner. Shame.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
First you should learn that a true muslim will never accuse another muslim of being a kaafir or a disbeliever. Which you have just done. My case rests, that you are a ghattiya insaan.
As for that chat conversation, you people were talking about bringing back the khalifa
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
*Muslim is one who follows the quran adn the sunnah of the prophet (pbuh)
People who refuses to believe in the way of the Prophet and in his teachings are as gross deviants.
The Khilafah will come, regardless of whatever. It has been fortold by our Prophet. We were talkin abt Islamic Law in Pakistan, specifically, because that was the sole purpose of making Pakistan.
PS. Sorry to use the term..“Non Muslim”. just playing safe on my part.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
You're not worth the argument Sharaabi. You're just feeling crunchy that I am not afraid to openly tell people what you really are. As for whether or not I believe in Sunnah, you can go ahead and refer to my sunnah vs. hadith threads that i've debated in very much in the past. You can point fingers and say "this is what you believe", but you're all the more ignorant because of it.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
In the event that a khalifa ever does come into power, rest assured, it will not be you or anyone who thinks like you. :k:
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Quote me where i called you a hadith rejector or a kaafir or a non muslim. You assumed I was talkin about you.
here:
Personally i dont see you as a hadith rejector. My definition for a hadith rejector is one who openly refuses all hadith and Sunnahs of the Prophet, claiming them to me fabricated and hence not worth believing in, and i know thats not what you believe in.
I never called you one of those…and from the beginning its you whose been doin the name calling.
This statement of mine was used more in a general sense and was not particularly aimed at anyone. It was for the hadith rejectors in general. You had no reason to take it upon urself.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Liar. Below in bold are your words.
**You wanna see some ultra liberal pakistanis, go to Pak 1 and you'll find some. You displayed some characteristics of them too, when you said to me: "Islamic Law...my foot"
and stop defending the munqar e hadeeth. You reject the hadith, you reject the way of the Prophet and who ever rejects the way of the Prophet is not a Muslim, period.**
Take note of the last sentence.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
i called you a liberal...but never a hadith rejector.
Take note of my previous post.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Immediately after you tell me to stop defending the munqar a hadeeth, you say "you reject the hadith". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to believe that you were accusing me of rejecting hadith, and subsequently saying that I'm not a muslim.
You could just say sorry instead of making a grand lie to cover yourself up.
Now back to the topic of extremism.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
OOoooh I 'd love to respond but homie I gots to go fulfill a farz and do istikhara, so chillax ill be bak in a bit 
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Okay, you say noone has the right to force religion down your throat, that’s fair enough. Well if someone says my religion is false and made up, a sham, I have every right to kick their ass, no? That makes me an extremist now for using violence to reiterate my point fine. Maybe you can handle stupid comments about your religion but most of us wouldn’t.
Another thing, there is liberal behavior and liberal beliefs, neither of which always coincide with each other; one can have “liberal” behavior but traditional beliefs tha they are straying from and vice versa. Wearing jeans to McDs with guy firends can be considered “liberal” behavior according to some; now if that girl thinks dressing to show off ur body is okay, eating haram is okay, dating guys etc etc is okay,t hen that is liberal.
Re: Purging GS of Extremists
Okay, you say noone has the right to force religion down your throat, that's fair enough. Well if someone says my religion is false and made up, a sham, I have every right to kick their ass, no? That makes me an extremist now for using violence to reiterate my point fine. Maybe you can handle stupid comments about your religion but most of us wouldn't.
And exactly what will you accomplish by killing someone that says your religion is false? Lets see, all of CNN will be on you, and your religion will be advertised as tyrannical. Maybe you'll have a few that will say, No, that's not Islam. That's just messed up Sara516, and she's an example of how irrational and hotheaded muslims are.
What happens? Investors don't want to invest in muslim countries, because they think we're too violent. Plus, there is not much to say that some atheist who is wanting to invest is obviously not going to feel secure in doing business with countries like Pakistan.
You being a Pakistani, Pakistanis will feel retaliation from your violence. Innocent muslims will have to deal with hate crimes, etc.
Plus, you just killed someone that could very well have converted to Islam if you had been gentle and understanding in your approach. Isn't that how the Rasul converted Umar, the hothead that he was prior to becomeing a muslim. Even after becoming a muslim, he acknowledged he still had a temper that was hard to control.
If you have ever worked with people, you will know one thing. You can get more people on your side with honey and sugar than you can with violence.
Now, if the guy says your religion is false and walks away - what harm did he really do? Okay, so he thinks something. Your own religion, the one you for which you feel so much for taht you'd kill someone for it, says to not wage jihaad unless that person is preventing you from practicing your faith. Now, did he do that by telling you he thinks your religion is a joke? No. Now, if he's preventing you from praying, torturing you physically, killing your kids, burning your Quran, destroying your prayer places, then yes, you are justified in doing jihaad.
But who exactly is doing that anyway? The US? Britain? Surely not, but they're the ones being targeted for all this extremism. The War on Iraq is one thing, but guess who is assisting the forces over there? Shia Muslims who want Sunni Muslims out of power. So when one muslim turns against another, exactly what kind of respect are you expecting for muslims?
I'm a muslim, and hell I have zero respect for the majority of muslims out there.