Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
We will need to open a separate thread to discuss Kashmir. The so called “human right abuses” in Kashmir are not directed at a certain religion. They are directed against anti-India separatists/terrorists and their sympathizers.
Whether its “human right abuse” or not is a topic for another debate 
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
A few cases of conversion in Sindh means persecution of Hindus in all over Pakistan. Violent riots against Muslims due to statements of Baal Thakre and Shiv Sena are not representative of India.
Muslims of Kashmir suffering similar treatments come under so-called acts against terrorists and Anti Indians. When I said conversion in Sindh is due to economic inequality and Sindhi society don’t bother about conversion, you didn’t get my point.
I can’t understand selective condemnation and selective justification for similar acts.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
So what is more difficult
Being Punda in kashmir or Being muslim in Gujarat?
How many muslim flee to pakistan for fear of persecution or economic reasons or were forcibly converted?
When Muslims threw us out it was freedom fighting now what we get done for them is just nationalism.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
So what is more difficult Being Punda in kashmir or Being muslim in Gujarat? How many muslim flee to pakistan for fear of persecution or economic reasons or were forcibly converted? When Muslims threw us out it was freedom fighting now what we get done for them is just nationalism.
To be very honest and you might know that I don't indulge in such discussions for which we can't have one view. Only people who suffer from these persecutions have a better idea.
There are reports that say that Kashmiri Muslims were persecuted in Indian Kashmir and there are reports which says that Hindu Pandits are being persecuted there now. You have some personal experiences about that and I will never argue with you on this. Same goes true for conversion of Hindus at mass level in Sindh, which is not the fact as per my first hand information.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
These reports of persecution are being reported by UNHRC. So an issue exists for certain international bodies to report such things. It is not an isolated case. Please do not compare communal riots with systematic discrimination. The problem and human rights abuse in Kashmir started after the presence of army in the valley starting with the expulsion of pundits from Kashmir and culminating with the militancy which people were sympathetic to. Are there cases of abuse before 1980s ? I am not justifying abuse of any kind but conveying the cases are not similar. Pundits in Kashmir were taunted to move but asked to leave their women folk behind.
We have had communal riots in the rest of India too. But even after the worst of them like the Bombay riots , Babri masjid riots or Gujarat riots, how many muslim families migrated to Pakistan citing inability to live in India due to religious intolerance ? In the same vein at what atrocities have the Pakistani hindus borne that is forcing them to give up everything and live as refugees in a country not of their birth ? Why are the refugees swelling ? Why is the reverse not taking place ? I have seen people here in this forum who have a problem with the Hindu practices of Secular India and yet are not ready to move. I know how imperfect India is and with all the problems that we have, the muslims want to stay on. Yet the hindu minority is fleeing the country of their birth in large numbers. What made them reach that breaking point ?
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
So much bickering here. I think it's difficult to deny abuses on both sides whether it is in Kashmir or Gujarat.
Sticking to the theme of this thread it's rather sad that non-Muslims are being forced out by small section of the Pakistani community.. At the end of the day they are Pakistani and should be treated equally. It's certainly worrying the government needs to address this sooner rather then later. It's will have enormous repercussions. Today, it's the Hindus who are leaving. Tomorrow someone else will be the target. Non Muslims in Pakistan have been failed by the government on the local to the federal level. This simply boils down to the uneducated people in Pakistan trying to 'cleanse' the country from kaffir.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
These reports of persecution are being reported by UNHRC. So an issue exists for certain international bodies to report such things. It is not an isolated case. Please do not compare communal riots with systematic discrimination. The problem and human rights abuse in Kashmir started after the presence of army in the valley starting with the expulsion of pundits from Kashmir and culminating with the militancy which people were sympathetic to. Are there cases of abuse before 1980s ? I am not justifying abuse of any kind but conveying the cases are not similar. Pundits in Kashmir were taunted to move but asked to leave their women folk behind. We have had communal riots in the rest of India too. But even after the worst of them like the Bombay riots , Babri masjid riots or Gujarat riots, how many muslim families migrated to Pakistan citing inability to live in India due to religious intolerance ? In the same vein at what atrocities have the Pakistani hindus borne that is forcing them to give up everything and live as refugees in a country not of their birth ? Why are the refugees swelling ? Why is the reverse not taking place ? I have seen people here in this forum who have a problem with the Hindu practices of Secular India and yet are not ready to move. I know how imperfect India is and with all the problems that we have, the muslims want to stay on. Yet the hindu minority is fleeing the country of their birth in large numbers. What made them reach that breaking point ?
Do you statistics of Hindus migrating from Pakistan to India in near future? We move in the same society where we interact with Hindus in our daily life. We didn't see them uncomfortable. It may be the fact that some lower class (lower Income group) are taking benefit of the situation to move to India for better opportunities. You have to look into the economic factors before concluding anything on religious grounds.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
To be very honest and you might know that I don't indulge in such discussions for which we can't have one view. Only people who suffer from these persecutions have a better idea.
There are reports that say that Kashmiri Muslims were persecuted in Indian Kashmir and there are reports which says that Hindu Pandits are being persecuted there now. You have some personal experiences about that and I will never argue with you on this. Same goes true for conversion of Hindus at mass level in Sindh, which is not the fact as per my first hand information.
Now the entire situation is result of their own action coupled with Indian government inability to solve the problem. I don't deny even a rumour coming out of the valley that muslims are pesecuted there but who began the great game? they thought the community which hold power at the centre won't even retaliate,bodies of pundas rotted to mud in the promised land named after our maharishi, so at least Kashmiri muslims should take this in spirit like they did take in past.
I don't know entire migration fiasco from Sindh, but the way community shelter is swelling speaks otherwise, may be they exaggerate their miseries to get citizenship and all. but when conversion is shown on live on TV, even though vouluntarily brings up the questions.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Will look for data later when I get some time. According to this news report there are1.2 lakh Pakistani Hindu migrants in one part of Rajasthan alone.
Pakistani Hindus refuse to go back, demand refugee status in India | NDTV.com
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Now the entire situation is result of their own action coupled with Indian government inability to solve the problem. I don't deny even a rumour coming out of the valley that muslims are pesecuted there but who began the great game? they thought the community which hold power at the centre won't even retaliate,bodies of pundas rotted to mud in the promised land named after our maharishi, so at least Kashmiri muslims should take this in spirit like they did take in past.
I don't know entire migration fiasco from Sindh, but the way community shelter is swelling speaks otherwise, may be they exaggerate their miseries to get citizenship and all. but when conversion is shown on live on TV, even though vouluntarily brings up the questions.
I do agree to your point that conversion should not be promoted on media.
I'll suggest to read chapter 'Laal pari' from William Dalrymple's latest Book 'Nine Lives', which authenticate overall tendency of Sindhi society towards religion. I'm bringing Sindh again and again in this discussion because its the province where majority of Pakistani Hindus live.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
I do agree to your point that conversion should not be promoted on media.
I'll suggest to read chapter 'Laal pari' from William Dalrymple's latest Book 'Nine Lives', which authenticate overall tendency of Sindhi society towards religion. I'm bringing Sindh again and again in this discussion because its the province where majority of Pakistani Hindus live.
Even I stated that one has to move region wise after 1951. Considering the growth rate of two communities which is of course different, is the population of all the communities proportional? One can compare overall population of UP and Sindh in this case.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
I’ll have to look into this too and find out what Sindhi Media says about this.
Rajasthan border is near Tharparkar District (in Southern Sindh), whereas the reports of abduction / conversion are coming from Northern and Upper Sindh. You can see the background (economically weak) of the people being reported in NDTV report.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Even I stated that one has to move region wise after 1951. Considering the growth rate of two communities which is of course different, is the population of all the communities proportional? One can compare overall population of UP and Sindh in this case.
I'll search for statistics, but as far as my memory works, after partition, only Sindh (in West Pakistan) got sizable Hindu population and we still have many towns (Udero Laal, Mithi, Ratto Dero, etc) , where Hindus live in majority. I myself have studied Maths for Sindhi Hindus.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Bangladeshi muslims also migrate to india i dont know who persecute them...............:D
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
How many Muslims have migrated to Pakistan or elsewhere as a result of Bal Thakre or Shiv Sena’s actions ?
I have given you enough evidence to show that Hindus are being forced out of Pakistan due to systematic discrimination and persecution. Yes, its in small quantities when you compare it to the mass exodus of 1947. But its happening nevertheless.
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Bangladeshi muslims also migrate to india i dont know who persecute them...............:D
Many of them migrated during 1971 war and never returned back, largest of them live in Tripura, persecuted by their own Punjabi kind:)
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Many of them migrated during 1971 war and never returned back, largest of them live in Tripura, persecuted by their own Punjabi kind:)
I was talking about people who migrated after 1971...there are still reports about illegal immigrant entering india every year...:D
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Besides millions Afghan refugees, Pakistan also accommodate refugees from Indian Kashmir to Pakistani areas.
Kashmiri Refugees: Facts, Issues and the Future Ahead
The matter is not as simple as it seems 
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
Bangladeshi muslims also migrate to india i dont know who persecute them...............:D
They sneak into india and pretend to be Indians. They are not official refugees. :D
Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction
They sneak into india and pretend to be Indians. They are not official refugees. :D
but why do they sneak into india?