Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@The_Player

*Yaar, *the fact that Washington Post reported it in 2012 does not make the issue less real.

And I don’t see the logic behind “same problem being faced by Muslim population”. Are young Muslim girls being ‘marked’, abducted, raped, and forcibly converted ? Are Muslims facing discrimination and religious persecution ?

The situation for minorities has become grave especially during the past 10 years of the US war, but then it doesnt make it any safer for me being a muslim.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@Ali_Syed

The situation for minorities has become grave especially during the past 10 years of the US war, but then it doesnt make it any safer for me being a muslim.

Ali do you have any material for %age of Hindu population in Pakistan after 1971 (as per 1972 / 1981 Census)?

[psyah]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

This is a really strange conversation. Extinction of Hindus from a region … What would be the solution? Perhaps, give them towns of their own, build them mandirs, take away their sources of contraception? There are many reasons for the decline of a population and I personally believe it to be a propagation issue more than anything else. Hindus in Pakistan are simply not having enough children to sustain population. It is evident that some will be lost to conversion, but to argue these conversions are forced is dismissing the real issue. The fact is … There is no Hindu infrastructure there, it is not trendy being Hindu in the Punjab. Should the Pakistanis react to this like we would react to the decline of a panda population? I don’t think so. Just as various groups have established themselves in the West, they need to use the same means in Pakistan … It is up to the Pakistani Hindus to change their situation.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@muqawwee123

Ali do you have any material for %age of Hindu population in Pakistan after 1971 (as per 1972 / 1981 Census)?

I’ll try to find something out, but in west Pakistan (as we had in 1951) the minorities are hovering around 3 % since 1951. As far as east Pakistan (Bangladesh) is concerned some Hindus fled during 1971 war, during the past 40 years I am not sure. The Indians shouldn’t worry much about minorities in Bangladesh and worry more about their areas bordering bd as most if them have also become Muslim majority.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

I have taken the figures of 1941 census from an Indian website, there were about 23 % non muslims in Pakistani Punjab where as 31 % muslims in Indian Punjab. What happened to the muslims there?

[TABLE=“width: 586”]

East Punjab
Muslims
Non Muslims

West Punjab
Muslims
Non Muslims

Hissar
28.2
71.8

Lahore
60.7
39.3

Rohtak
17.2
82.8

Sialkot
62.1
37.9

Gurgaon
33.5
66.5

Gujranwala
70.4
29.6

Karnal
30.6
69.4

Gujrat
85.6
14.4

Ambala
31.6
68.4

Sheikhupura
63.6
36.4

Simla
18.2
81.8

Shahpur
83.7
16.3

Kangra
5.1
94.9

Jehlum
89.5
10.5

Hoshiarpur
32.5
67.5

Rawalpindi
80
20

Jullundhur
45.2
54.8

Attock
90.5
9.5

Ludhiana
36.9
63.1

Mianwali
86.2
13.8

Ferozepur
45.1
54.9

Montgomery
69.1
30.9

Amritsar
46.5
53.5

Lyallpur
62.8
37.2

Gurdasur
50.2
49.8

Jhang
82.6
17.4

Kapurthala
56.4
43.6

Multan
78
22

Faridkot
30.7
69.3

Muzaffargarh
86.5
13.5

Patiala
22.6
77.4

Deraghazi khan
88.9
11.1

jind
14.1
85.9

Average
77.5125
22.4875

Nabha
20.7
79.3

Average
31.40555556
68.59444444

Total (Punjab)
54.45902778
45.54097222

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

If we talk about the total impact of the partition we will have to take account of the migrations in Karachi (although there was no genocide there), Delhi and UP too.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

I have made some amendments in the table given in the previous post using population data. For 4.18 million non muslims that might have crossed the borders into India, about 5 million muslims crossed the borders towards Pakistan. The population fo Punjab in 1941 was around 34 million and around 10 million crossed over (both sides of the borders) which makes around 30 % of the population.

[TABLE=“width: 1093”]

East Punjab

Muslims

Non Muslims

Population

Muslims

Non muslims

West Punjab

Muslims

Non Muslims

Population

Muslims

Non Muslims

Hissar

28.2

71.8

1007000

283974

723026

Lahore

60.7

39.3

1695000

1028865

666135

Rohtak

17.2

82.8

956000

164432

791568

Sialkot

62.1

37.9

1190000

738990

451010

Gurgaon

33.5

66.5

851000

285085

565915

Gujranwala

70.4

29.6

912000

642048

269952

Karnal

30.6

69.4

995000

304470

690530

Gujrat

85.6

14.4

1104000

945024

158976

Ambala

31.6

68.4

848000

267968

580032

Sheikhupura

63.6

36.4

853000

542508

310492

Simla

18.2

81.8

39000

7098

31902

Shahpur

83.7

16.3

999000

836163

162837

Kangra

5.1

94.9

899000

45849

853151

Jehlum

89.5

10.5

630000

563850

66150

Hoshiarpur

32.5

67.5

1170000

380250

789750

Rawalpindi

80

20

785000

628000

157000

Jullundhur

45.2

54.8

1127000

509404

617596

Attock

90.5

9.5

676000

611780

64220

Ludhiana

36.9

63.1

819000

302211

516789

Mianwali

86.2

13.8

506000

436172

69828

Ferozepur

45.1

54.9

1423000

641773

781227

Montgomery

69.1

30.9

1329000

918339

410661

Amritsar

46.5

53.5

1414000

657510

756490

Lyallpur

62.8

37.2

1396000

876688

519312

Gurdasur

50.2

49.8

1154000

579308

574692

Jhang

82.6

17.4

822000

678972

143028

Kapurthala

56.4

43.6

378000

213192

164808

Multan

78

22

1484000

1157520

326480

Faridkot

30.7

69.3

199000

61093

137907

Muzaffargarh

86.5

13.5

713000

616745

96255

Patiala

22.6

77.4

1936000

437536

1498464

Deraghazi khan

88.9

11.1

622000

552958

69042

jind

14.1

85.9

361000

50901

310099

Bahawalpur

82.10291

17.89709172

1341000

1101000

240000

Nabha

20.7

79.3

340000

70380

269620

Average

77.78252

22.21747598

17057000

12875622

4181378

Average

31.40555556

68.59444444

15916000

4998508.222

10917491.78

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

I have not been able to find definitive figures for UP, but in 1941 there were 40 % muslims in urban areas of the state where as 33 % muslims in Delhi, the proportion now has gone down to 30 % for urban UP and 11 % for Delhi. The reduction is due to the migration of people from these areas to urban areas of Sindh especially Karachi and Hyderabad, with the reverse migration an imbalance has been created in Sindh as non muslims were mostly located in urban areas, rural areas were already predominantly muslim.

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@muqawwee123

My point is a few cases does not say that Sindhi society is pro-conversion.

I am not singling out the Sindhi community. I am talking about Pakistan in general.

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@Ali_Syed

If you had cared to read my previous posts you wouldn’t have been asking the same question over and over again, Bangladesh was a part of Pakistan in 1951 and it had more population than the Pakistan we have now. The Hindus in Bangladesh were around 23% which were naturally included as a part of the Pakistan census in 1951, if you remove those Hindus the population in the rest of the country is still where it was in 1951. Read the link of the book by professor Ian talbot that I have posted in post 36.

And the links that I have posted clearly show that BD went from 22% to 9.2% and Pak went from 22% to 1.7%. If your assertion was true, BD would have gone up from 22%. That is obviously not the case here, so I am not sure your assertion is based in facts.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

^ I dont need to add anything, my posts are self explanatory…enjoy…

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@Ali_Syed

The situation for minorities has become grave especially during the past 10 years of the US war, but then it doesnt make it any safer for me being a muslim.

I can agree with the first part, since I know from many Pakistani friends (who are more modern/western in their outlook) that fundamentalism has increased over the last decade and its especially tough for religious minorities.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@The_Player

I am not singling out the Sindhi community. I am talking about Pakistan in general.

In that case, you should appreciate the fact that Hindus are at higher positions in Pakistan and few incidents don’t prove that Pakistani society as a whole is intolerant towards Hindus. The sentences like - Hindus are not welcomed in their homeland (Pakistan) are totally misleading. We hear about the Hindu-Muslim riots and persecution in various areas of India that doesn’t make me say that Muslims are not welcomed in India.

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@Ali_Syed

^ I dont need to add anything, my posts are self explanatory…enjoy…

If you want to disagree with the statistics that I have quoted, that’s fine. However, the math in your arguments does not add up.

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@muqawwee123

In that case, you should appreciate the fact that Hindus are at higher positions in Pakistan and few incidents don’t prove that Pakistani society as a whole is intolerant towards Hindus. The sentences like - Hindus are not welcomed in their homeland (Pakistan) are totally misleading. We hear about the Hindu-Muslim riots and persecution in various areas of India that doesn’t make me say that Muslims are not welcomed in India.

Lets not compare Hindu-Muslim riots in India to persecution of minorities in Pakistan. Not sure how many Indian Muslims you know, but might help to talk to one to understand how Muslims are treated in India.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

^ its very easy if you really want to get to the bottom of it. You can easily find out the populations of Punjab and Sindh in 1941 and 1951 and see the impact of partition. Plenty of information available on the net.

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@Ali_Syed

I have taken the figures of 1941 census from an Indian website, there were about 23 % non muslims in Pakistani Punjab where as 31 % muslims in Indian Punjab. What happened to the muslims there?

1941 ??? The partition took place in 1947. So obviously a majority of that 31% moved to Pakistan in 1947. You should look at the number in 1951.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

^ and when did the hindus move to India? 1929? Do you know what was the proportion of the minorities in current Pakistan at the time of partition?

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

Muslim population growth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indian Muslim population went from 9.91% (1951) to 13.43% (2001).

Similar figures for Hindus in Pakistan are 22% (1951) to 1.7% (today)

Hope this answers your question.

[The_Player]

Re: Punjabi Hindus: forlorn and on the path to extinction

@Ali_Syed

^ and when did the hindus move to India? 1929? Do you know what was the proportion of the minorities in current Pakistan at the time of partition?

I repeat for the umpteenth time -

Hindu population in 1951 -22% (Pak), 22% (Bangladesh)
Hindu population today -1.7% (Pak), 9.2% (Bangladesh)

Even if you look at Pak & BD combined, the percentage of Hindus has gone down.