Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

I agree that she was not active politician at that time, but the army generals who have ruled Pakistan for 30+ years are not polticians by any mean...

Anyway, in those days, Political system was so corrupt and People of Pakistan was never involved in the politics ( they were only allowed to elect BD members only) and all the corrupt politicians had made alliance to have Ayoub in Power, as they see it easier to deal with him.

I think you are missing the part where Ayoub seized all the political activities in the country, so there were no open demonstration and/or public gathering, and if i am right, the only media was radio station and few people had access to the TV sets...

Apparently, the seize on political activism was lifted because most of politicians may had given their WILL to support Ayoub Khan ( an NRO kind of stuff i think), but again u r right, She might had some limitations, but can those be bigger than of Ayoubs? thats the question my friend...

Again i Agree, the both ZAB and Mujib were working on Idher hum Udher tum basis, but being supreme commander of Armed forces, being the president of Pakistan, it was duty of Ayoub and later Yehya to keep an eye on the agenda and intentions of the Politicians, ( and that was on of the intentions behind the creation of ISI, again used in the negative way)

Although ZAB is the one who brought the POWs back home, but yes there should not be POWs, ZAB, did all he can both on National and international level to loose the east wing of Pakistan.

In normal wording it can be said that the war of 1965, was fought by the Army with the support of Pakistani People, where as in the war of 1971, Army was used to accomplish the targets of the politicians, hence the objective of 1971's war ( from Pakistan side) was never to win it...

The only reason i or the historian of the future will blame Ayoub because he was the leader at that time, he had the resources to hold back both Mujib and ZAB, but for some reason he let the things go out of hands, he should have eliminated the threat Mujeeb had created... but for some reason he let the anti-pakistan sentiments grow.. or may be he was not informed, what ever the reason was, being the president of the country and good one, he should have been aware of bad guys..

anyway, i red an interview of Ayoub post the black year of 1971, when he said to this Indian Journalist that you may have been successfull in dividing Pakistan but this western wing is there to stay, and this alone will keep India in pain...

to support my argument, in response of your example of Prophet Adam & Hawa ( PBUT), are you familiar with the love tale of Mirza and Sahiba?

When Mirza and Sahiba ran from the brothers of Sahiba, he instead carrying out his journey to his destination, he decided to have a rest, while the brothers of Sahiba were looking for them like mad dogs, while he slept, Sahiba broke all the arrows, fearing Mirza will use them to kill her brothers... anyway, when they were approached by Sahiba's brother, Mirza found out about the arrows and later was killed by the brothers of Sahiba???

Now whom to blame??? It was Mirza's who decided to take rest yet he knew the nature of the brothers of Sahiba...

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

^well man talk with manners ok? say Hazrat Adam(AS) and Hazrat Hawa(AS). They are not ur personal servants ok? so think before u speak about them

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

hanibal bhai yeh apkay liay nahe bueqaposh k liye hai.

:)

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

Simple Fact that SuI GAs which came from baluchistan was made availabel in every nook and corner of Punjab and even whole Quetta doesn;t have access to the same gas tells all one needs to know.

This is what I gathered from Bolta Pakistan show.

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

Nothing is ours.
Can any one tell me which one is ours
Army ?
Beurocracy ?
Juditiary ?
Politicians ?
Mulla ?
Media ?
They all are together
No question of any ethinic group
Looterts are all
and we are their.............

Can some one clarify one point - which ways does Punjab have more rights than the other provinces? Does this refer to only the electricity-gas revenue or more?

I think the issue goes deeper than just being called traitor by asking for provincial rights. The allegations of foreign involvement in some of these movements comes to mind. The ANP were never really a pro-pakistan movement and had very friendly terms with India, the USSR, Afghanistan - it was quite natural that any issue they promoted with regards to regional politics would not be seen favourably.

Same with baloch movements too. Its a shame the PPP led government, allegedly the best voice for the baloch has not done much other than talk.

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

In terms of resource allocation and representation, Baluchistan has the greatest (justiifed) grievances. I don't intend to bash Punjab or Punjabis here but all we need to see is the resource allocation in the NFC Award and the formula it uses. This is always a point of dissention where it's Punjab vs. the smaller provinces.

Also in many instances it seems like Pakistan is Punjab + Urdu Speakers. Now I admit that this is linked to population numbers, the fact that the people from the smaller provinces don't step up, but it's definitely disheartening.

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

^I agree that Balochistan has justified objections to current fund distribution. However, before making any further comments i want to know how do the NFC awards finally go to the provinces? Do the awards become part of the budgets approved for each province? Or are the awards are the "extra" thing paid to provinces by federation.

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

I agree that Baluchistan has been treated extremely poorly in terms of spending resources on development and infrastructure. There is an URGENT need to look into it.

Sindh stresses the formula for division of pool of resources by federal government should be based on the taxes collected from each province. This would not help Baluchistan or NWFP in any way since a huge tax collection occurs at Karachi port. This tax collection, in my opinion, cannot be attributed to a particular province.

Punjab stresses formula based on population, again not fair to Baluchistan or NWFP.

I think the division should be based on contribution to the GDP from each province. Baluchistan and NWFP with abundant natural resources would benefit from such a formula.

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

Large amount of taxes collected at karachi are custom duties and sales tax on imports which is used by all over Pakistan, this cannot be taken as indiginous tax of karachi.

The other problem of awarding NFC based upon GDP is that the inherent disequalities in system are perpetuated, bcoz underdeveloped areas have poor GDP. GDP includes not only the products but also the investment, consumption and spending by government. Again by this scheme Balochistan will lag behind.

Ahm ahm Musharaf does belong to Karachi rather India. I met him personally at the parent day exhibition in Lawrence college ghora gali murree :) . I asked him few question about his birth date, location and some other things. If you really want to ask me now I have forgot it because I was stun having President of Pakistan and Chief Army standing beside me. What I can only remember was he said smthng like New Dehli but whatever it was it wasnt inside Pakistan. Do google it.

Ps: I have no intention to flame you its just a little add on to your information.

You are right, he is as much Indian as Manmohan and Advani are Pakistanis.

My friend Cap: Safder connection....understand

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

ohh my Friend.Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces ! This is an uncomplete thread if you do not discuss the honourable judges of Punjab high court and who promoted as SC judges.
** They were always a part of Punjabi Establishment.**

Well, we should not expect respect for Islamic figures from non-Muslims.

Theres no shortage of Pashtuns in Pakistans power structure. They have been the ones who have advanced the most in the last 30 years.

Most complain that Pakistan = Punjabi, Urdu and NWFP/Pashtun.

Who is most then? Do you even know the definition of the word "most."?

Define how Pakhtuns have advanced the most in Pakistan's power structure? I can give numerous examples in many other fields, but not in the power structure.

altaf hussain is as pakistani as laloo prasad yadav might be.

Who cares about a Beghairat terrorist. Actually Laloo Prasad Yadav has given more pro Pakistan statements than Altaf Hussain so yes i will take Laloo over retard Altaf any day.

i think this thread is a source of futile discussion ..................

i m a punjabi .................... many of my cousin are jobless ................. and rest of them doing jobs

so its depend upon u how u workhard ............. in getting education, business and agriculture........

i give u an exmple according to a survey there are only 1600-2000 parsi lives in khi ............and they are one of the most influential community in the field of banking , finnce , shipping and hotels ....................

and many of them are billionaires .................. they have a separte society in DHA Phase 1 ......... and most of the society consist of bungalows.............

so shud i say they are exploiting our country .............. and they have more recources than there ratio in the population of pakistan .............

the fact is they are very hardworking ppl ............... they know how to do the business ..........

the same is the case wid Agha Khani ,Memon , Bohra and punjabi Sodaragan community ........... they are ruling the financial hub of the country (Karachi) ..............

so shud we start to fight with them ................ what they have got by dint of their hard work , education and market knowledge .................

as far as punjab is concerned y ppl forget more than 60 - 70 % population lives in punjab ................
the main reason that give punjabis edge over the other provinces is the fact that there is no strong
Wadera system in punjab specially in North Punjab ................ and education system is better ...............

other wise punjabi ppl on the whole does have much better standard of living than other provinces ...........

keeping in view the smuggling by balochs and ATT windfall for pushtoon ...............