Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
61

Question is>

Why FATA is backward compared to Peshawar?

The answer is that FATAns are more tribals and thus no sane businessman wants to go and setup factories there.

Or perhaps you think Pakistani government should have gone in by force and civilized the FATA area? because 60+ of "peaceful requests" have not worked.

62

^Lakki marwat also has pure tribal society like its neighbour waziristan, then why it is comparatively better than waziristan?

63

Wazirs and Marwats are not alike, are they? One is more open to outsiders and business orientated.

64

Some of these arguments are quite circular ..they've been used by the establishment against the Bengalis in the 1960's.

In the grander scheme of things political instability, lack of empowerment, poor law and order are bigger causes of lack of development than tribalism.

Mothers are more apathetic towards their children if they were CSDs
65

Begnalis were fed lies by the separatists and so are the tribals who are fed by the same lies.

Just like in the 1970s, this thread too is being fed by the wretched arguments.

Whoever says Bengalis separatists were correct, must not forget what Bengalis did to their Bandhu Mujib.

Mujib fed lies to bengalis that somehow other ethnicities are eating Bengalis alive. However when E. Bengal got its desired jannat in the form of BDesh, within few short months, Awami League's lies became apparent.

Then the disgruntled and disillusioned BENGALIS quickly got together and sent Bandhu to Jannat ul Firdaus.

Poor Sheikh was NATIONAL LEADER in Pakistan.
The Sheikh was a pile of minced meat in HIS Sonar Bengla.

Bengalis killed not only the Sheiku, they killed every man, woman, child, granpappy, granny, ucles, aunts, and ants of the ENTIRE Sheiken family. Only one daughter survived because she happened to be OUTSIdE the hellhole.

The reason Sheikh was made milk-shake by them Bengalis because they realized the loss of Pak based INCOME.

here is how it turned out:

E. Pakistan was taking in 50% of Pak budget = $16 billion per year in today's terms and shared no liabilities.

BDesh now has close to half of this i.e. $8billion with 30% 40% debt financing.

Thus in today's term Bengalis can spend only $5billion per year i.e. a clear loss of $10 billion a year due to separation.

After 40 long years of PHAREEDOOM, Here are some dark facts.

E. Bengalis are now almost the same population as Pak.

Tell me if they have more universities, more colleges, more schools, more factories, bigger army, bigger police, less poverty????

Have they spent more time under DOOMcratics and less time under army rule?

FYI. Poor Thangs have suffered more from the dynastic despots than any in Pak history.

So please do not spread cr@p and filth from the Bengalis. It is like saying the people in Fgahn and Somali $hiteholes live better compared to Pak.

These type of un-thought and un-intellectual arguments make your case weaker and not the other way around.

66

Veering off topic as always with you anti let me simplify this into basic common sense..** anyone can rightfully screw up their own lives but that does not give anyone else to screw it up for them!** What the Baloch or Bengalis or anyone else for that matter ..do to themselves is no justification for anyone else doing it to them!! Your argument goes like this *" The Baloch are badly treated by by their Sardars so its ok for us to exploit them too" "The Bengalis rulers exploit their people so it's ok if we did the same" *

67

who broughteth the BDeshi topic-eth in this thread???????

Thine-self.

Read your posts before accusing others.

Is it a reading comprehension problem or what?

BDeshis have $10 billion less per year to spend (in today's dollars)

compared to

E. Pakistanis.

Kapeesh????????????

You love to use the loaded word like $exploit $. Pakistan was not $$exploiting E. Pakistanis. The slogan-mongers made it up and pathetic un-intellectuals lapped it up.

Similarly you cannot list a darn thing where Balochis have requested a motorway, an IIT, or a big name hospital from the people of Pakistan. Where are the initiatives? No one can pour them down on Balochis. It is they who need to come up with development schemes.

have them-Balochis created special invitation for the top teachers in the country to come volunteer in Baloch schools?

don't try to repeat terrible tribalistic jinguism keh paisa day do, Dalllar day do, warna hum goli maar day ga.

Say something where a project is due, and then go around writing proposals to get the funds.

Don't just spread the vitriolic propaganda about $$$ and $exploitation.

FYI. $$$ go to Balochistan then ask yourself where do they disappear?

This is $exploitation of Balochis by them Balochi leaders. Call them Sirdars or call them tribal maliks or call them chaha jaan. Just put the blames where they are due. Repeating old rants is not going to help.

What they say,

Either put up OR ........

68

To say Punjabis are the only ethnic group in the establishment is totally wrong.

The establishment is represented by all ethnic groups sindhis, pashtuns, punjabis, seraikis, urdu speaking muhajirs, balochis etc
it also contains people of different sectarian backgrounds ie sunni, shia. agha khani, dawoodi bohra, and different religions ie qadiyanis.
it consists of all major political parties ie ppp, pml, anp, mqm, ji,
i includes both left and right
both military dictators ad so-called democrats

most writers and people that complain about the establishment are by default from very established, rich families. very few are from under-priviliged families.

theres this idea that the mqm is not part of the establishment - a group which systematically murders civilians belonging to other ethnic groups without any of its leadership being charged means they weak?

the baloch are exploited but as much as its easy to blame the pakistani government and leadership one has to think of the sardars roles.

lets face it baloch sardars did the least with any money they received. i can see hard work going into karachi, punjab, nwfp - theres something to show.

there was nothing more embarassing for me that staying with a rich baloch with a garden that stretched out of sight, talking about punjabis exploiting them.

if he was that concerned about his fellow baloch brethren then why not donate his land to his own people. most ethnic nationalists are as hypocritical as te pakistani nationalists they accuse.

69

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

excuses galore: they go like this
1)"the local elite is robbing the poor so it's ok if the national ruling class does the same"
2)"It was ok to treat the Bengalis/balochis badly because they can't manage their own future !"
3)"all poverty is because of feudals,tribals and sardars. How many feudals gave up a portion of their land for a school etc etc
4)"the military intervenes to save the country"

1-2) You can argue for things on economics and facts which have been shown time and time again that if the local "feudals" are taking millions for nothing, the GOP has made billions. Similarly there are plenty of studies and books which show how much was taken from East Pakistan in comparison to west pakistan. You can argue legally the supreme court ruling on NWFP's hydel royalties is on record and arguing that it's only wrong for some to exploit but not for others wouldn't hold well in a court of law. you can argue politically that across the world where you empower stakeholders through decentralisation and autonomy, it improves peoples economic state and general happiness.

3)Pakistan is more feudal than it's neighbours, which does hinder growth..but as i said political instability, excessive spending on military play a bigger role. The bit about giving up land for schools is an interesting one..I agree the wealthy should, i mean establishment people like Musharraf, Ayub and Zia must have given up loads of land for schools and university no? Or are they excluded because they made the money recently?

4) How messed up Musharraf left Pakistan is for everyone to see..Ayub, yahya and Zia did the same..democracy is an imperfect system it's still better than all the others.

70

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

When Balochistan, Sindh and NWFP Provinces ask for Rights..... u punjabies say they are traitors, they are funded by India and surely u guys will say that i m also funded by India,,,,, Losers.... U guys don't accept the truth..... On one side u say that injustice have been done with them and on other side u say that they are trators....

UR government say that ONly few people in Balochistan want Freedom all other are loyal to us... WTF..... Everyday there are rallies of thousands of balochs in every city of balochstan and all across balochistan.... Even Hunderds of Baloch Women came outside their home for freedom rallies so What do u think?????? are they all those few people which the Govt is Saying or Something Else.....

71

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

First u and paki govt don't give balochs their rights....... But when it come to Sepration.. u guys say that they should talk about their rights not sepration......

f u pakis are loyal to balochs then give them their rights... might be they won't think of sepration.... Why don't u give them their rights what they are demanding for last 63 years..... Come on....

In Sub Continent when muslims were dominated by Hindus and Englishmen.... why muslims didn't ask for their rights, why they wanted sepration??????????????? Why not demanding for the rights???????

And plz come on don't say that they were fighting against Non-Muslims.... But balochs are fighting with muslims..... F its so then Why don't u guys combine Pakistan with other Muslim Country?????? Why there are around 65 Muslim Federations?????????

And BTW pakistan is not an islamic country at any means and it can't be....

F u guys have gts come and discuss with me..................

72

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

huh u balochis have the guts to throw away sardar thing and come forward and say akber bugti was nothing but a cheap soul who could be bought for any sum of money..
balochis living in karachi and punjab will neva support freaking bla or blah blah....
no doubt rights should be given to balochis but wht abt sardars?..they have their houses in quetta,karachi and islamabad in very expensive areas..y they dont just sell their houses and build hospitals and educational centers..the level of balochis is such "high" tht they think bugti as their leader huh..
i have balochi friends in karachi university and mohalla and i have no hesitation tht they will neva support balochis so called " freedom movement"..they r living much better life then balochis in balochistan..y ? beacause they migrated to diff areas as they knew tht sardars would never allow poor peope children to study etc..
there is poverty and basic rights problems in all over pakistan..sindh areas can be easily match to balochistan poverty..many punjab areas r still lving under the fear of chaudhry...

We are the problem
73

Off course no one can support an unelected leader (period).

Having said that, we should be intellectually honest to accept the fact that unelected leaders can do good things especially in the context of Pakistan.

It is kind of bey-sharmi to put hyperbole in this thread about President Ayub khan and his economic miracle in Pakistan.

Ayub left Pakistan 100s of time richer, prosperous, and one of the strongest country in the neighborhood.

He got money from the West and built our infrastructure especially electricity infrastructure. With good infrastructure and relatively liberal laws, he spurred the entrepreneurship and industrial cum agricultural revolution.

Ayub Khan passed away while living in a simple house with simple ordinary clothing and simple life style.

Since then every despot be it elected or unelected robbed the country blind. Tell me how many leaders after him had the intellectual gift aka Aqal to do good in Pak?

One exception since Ayub Khan on national level was the PM Nawaz Sharif's first tenure.

On provincial level, Gen Fazle Haq did a tremendous service to Frontier especially for the infrastructure in FATA. It is a truly sad thing that terrible tribals refused to become civilized and do not pay bills for the services provided by the Pakistani taxpayers.

Apart from these three names, pakistan has seldom seen growth at the same level.

Yes you are angry and emotional bro. But Balochistani leaders must rise up for the development instead of repeating the primitive tribal behavior and rising up against the state.

You have not mentioned a single development project that Balochis want and Pakistani tax payers refuse to pay.

Just repeating the rant

paisa day do, dallar day do, warna goli mar day ga.

is pathetic really.

74

That is 100% lie. Ayub came through back door after kicking Iskandar Mirza. Ayub destroyed the institutions of democracy and judiciary. He was the most corrupt dictator and founded seeds of corruption in military and bureaucracy. He rigged elections of 1964 and later on poisoned Fatima Jinah to her death. He baton charged the people who came to bury Fatima Jinah beside Quaid's mazar. His son was equally corrupt and in 1964 he killed many muhajir and took victory salute of taxi drivers in Lalu Khet. In 1965 he started war with India and ceased fire abruptly after 17 days plunging Pakistan in to darkness of shame and economic disaster. Pakistan never regained after his shameful act and playing with future of Pakistan. He sowed the seeds of separation by false implicating Mujib in Agar Tala case. His idiotic action gave birth to Bangladesh in 1971.

Ayub Khan in his last days was cursing muhajir of Karachi and blamed them for his down fall. He said that he wanted to drown all muhajir in Arabian Ocean.

He was so corrupt that while he was sick in London, he called 707 Boeing people to give his commission as those planes were bought by PIA.

burqa or saleem whoever you are should be ashamed of lying in this forum continuously

75

yaara niden,

No one is supporting Ayub's undemocratic entry into presidency.

However it happened, and we must look at the GOOD things he did for the country.

In his time there was no load shedding because he built two large dams. He expanded power grid through the whole country.

His period saw unprecedented growth in industry and agriculture.

You may not know about the positive contributions, so check out with your walid sahib or other elders and they will tell you that Pak was prosperous in his time.

You can accuse Ayub for many things. But he didn't rob the country of money. Tell us how much money and $$$ he had in his swiss account. And how many mansions he did build?

Yeah there were rumors but there were never foreign bank accounts.

76

Do you know what was the population at that time? How many indistries existed? How much was being exported? West Pakistan population was less than East Pakistan's. Go and open history books. Aboout two dams, repeatedly fourth and fifth tunnel repairs forced to run the Tarbela dam at lower than peak capacity. The then Secretary of Irrigation and Power West Pakistan (Sher Mohammad Balaoch a top student and gold madelist graduate from NED Engineering College Karachi of 1943 batch. NED at that time was affiliated with Bombay University) was deadly against this project. He suggested different site due to soil and carrying capacity of water problem. Secretary was sacked by Ayub as he had already made deal with the contractors. Tarbela never produced electricity it was designed for and it has become now white elephant. Do you know how much is being spent on repairs of these tunnels every year? If these tunnels are not repaired the whole dam would have collapsed long time ago.

burqapostX if you don't know the history ask some one who has knowledge about these dams. Again I say that Ayub Khan at that time was considered as richest President of poor country. He had 80 croores in Swiss bank at that time. He was fed by big businesses regualry to import machinery without paying the taxes to government.

When did you sleep yesterday?
77

Well man! first do keep in mind my words and read the post carefully without doing any propaganda ok?

i am strongly in favour of balochi fight for their rights but there is a hell of difference between fighting for the rights and fighting for seperation and we are not against balochi fight for their rights but we are against disintegration of Pakistan.

and when u say that it is also the right of balochis to have a freedom struggle then man freedom from what? from ur own brothers and sisters and from ur own homeland? well thats very very shameful on ur part. ur getting funds from the enemies of Islam and Pakistan and Pakistani province balochistan. well how much ppl will u RAW trained terrorists brainwash. aaan?

how many balochis will u kill to create hatred on the name of baloch freedom and rights. punjabis are not saying u to not struggle for ur Islamic rights but ur struggle of rights has been hijacked by enemy. and no doubt that punjabi establishment is also doing injustices with balochistan but what the hell sardars arte doing there? and why not they also giving the rights to our balochi bros and sisters? look at their wealth and see the poor balochi brothers and sisters. and our enemy is getting full use of this situation.

78

Guy1 bhai! im really very sorry to say but here u have said something wrong which is that u balochis have guts to throw away. well bhai u also know that our baloch bros and sis are very nice ppl and these ppl are not balochis these are RAW agents in the makeup of balochis who are creating hatred amongst both sides to punjab also and balochis also and when u see their websites then they do not preach Islam, but preach to become hindu instead of muslim and to struggle for balochistan to become a part of india.

so bhai plz dont say something about balochis they are very nice, say RAW Agents and terrorists to these sel;ected group who are brainwashing our illitrate balochi bros and sis

:(

79

Re: Punjabi Establishment, Punjabi People and Injustices with other Provinces !

captain ft, i know majority of balochis r patriotic..but i really doubt the level of thinking of balochis...some of balochis living in lyari karachi think rehman dakait as their balochi hero..
i m very sorry to say tht the biggest factors of balochistan poverty and lack of developement are sardar and corrupt administration...islamabad has caused miseries in every area of pakistan..
i want to ask balochis when they will get "freedom",who will rule them?..bugti or any othertribe?..i think agencies should internal fights between bugti and other groups to weak them..
abt ur point of raw etc..yes i agree..raw is 100 % responsible for destruction in nwfp and balochistan..and i think army should bring this matter very strongly with americans etc...diplomatic front should be open to pressurize india..the matter should be taken to un assembly..and even then things r not change..we should attack indian embassies and bla office in kabul..and the most imprtantly,i strongly strongly advocate complete seal of pak afghan border..to hell with pashtoons living in afgahnistan..we should care abt our side..
building fences and mines will help to 100% eliminate terrorism in pakistan..
and i believe tht to counter india and take revenge..we should fully support naxalites and kashmiri mujahiddins and create fights between hindus,muslim and sikhs and do some explosions in business hubs of india..

80

BLA and MQM get support from RAW and both of these parties are anti-Pakistan. We should have someone like Naseerullah Babar in Karachi not that Hindu Syed Mustafa Kamal

Suits....