recent threads and many old ones.
I want to have discussion
what are Punjab rights being 50% population of Pakistan?
what it should do and what is shouldnt do?
why every thing is blamed on Punjab?? or Punjabis
Response needed from Pakistanis/NRP only - its internal issue!!!
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Federalism needs to be implemented in Pakistan (along with breakup of provinces).
Though I am all for benefiting all of Pakistan from the resources inside the borders of Pakistan but the place where the resources are coming from (human or material) should benefit as well!
Finally I believe a new constituent assembly needs to sit in and make a new constitution (get rid of old farsooda british laws) and NFC in its current state needs to be scrapped!
It is funny how punjab (One Unit) was against NFC award or parliament on population basis for East Pakistan (wanted to take underdevelopedness, "equal distribution" etc as criteria) yet fast forward right after 1971 and Punjab adopts the same "We have more population so we get more NFC" mantra that they rejected pre '71!
Their is hatred against Punjab coming back from the one unit days (where capital of one unit was lahore). People against breakup of provinces and decentralization should check the example of 'One Unit' and how it weakened Pakistan (led to East Pakistan being gone).
Statements like punjab toppling any pak government that doesn't build or discontinue KBD (hatdharmi) doesn't help matters either!
People need to have a sense of ownership of the resources they have and democracy is the best solution as we all know too well where the majority of the army comes from!
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Ok lets say we devide some provinces. we have 4 opinions now, we will have several to deal with and if we cant 4/5 to agree on one thing how the hell they can be agreed on any national interest??
I also agree NFC shouldnt be based on population only - it should also consider other parameters, ie current state of a province, investment, infrastructure etc.
Blochistan should get extra as it needs infrastructure even though it has less population.
NFC should be reviewed every year and on top of fixed funds, a pool fund should be set up to be allocated to provinces in need that year considering rain, floods, investment levels, education, health etc. only this can avoid under investment and over investments regardless of population.
Yahya Khan, Bhutto, Musa Khan were non-punjabis, they should have accepted Mujib as leader or atleast form some kind of mixed government. everything cant be slapped on Punjab as its not responsible for every thing.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
I could go into a detailed historical perspective, but i don't have time for that at the moment.
However the reason can be summed up as 'because of their hegemonistic attitude'.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Yet Punjab was the biggest supporter of bhutto.
Army went nuts as well and you can't blame non-punjabis for that!
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
If we are going to down the path of ethnicity and parity amongst Pakistan's constituent groups then, I believe that all of the existing four provinces should each be divided into three. This will allow the Seraiki's, Mohajirs, Hazara-wals, and Pashtuns of upper Balochistan their own provincial units.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Provinces need to be broken and hence feudalism (anything 'above the law' including army and politics) should be taken care of!
True law will only come when we make structural changes in Pakistan!
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
This article is now a days circulating on all the web sites,news letters,e-mails etc etc...Reporting is from balochvoice.com
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It is time for the Baloch people to unite and stand up against such atrocities by Punjabi Pakistan. Let me remind the international community that it is not the first time that such severe measures have been taken against the Baloch Nation.
Until and unless the Baloch don’t unite and get the help of the international community to put a leash on Pakistani (Punjabi Army) this slaughter of Baloch people will continue.
Pictures of Marri women and children killed in bombing and shelling by Pakistani Army. This shameless Pakistani Army still denies that there is no Army Operation going on in Balochistan.
Take a look at the pictures below they speak for themselves, mutilated bodies of innocent young children who were deprived of all the facilities of modern world and now deprived of their own life, all this destitution to the Baloch is by the tyrant and shameless Punjabi Pakistani Army. By Balochvoice.com 28.12.05
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Then there are some very gruesome pictures of some young kids dead bodies shown...(Wallah Alam whether true of atrocities??)
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
More important was the emergence of a new militant group calling itself the Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA). It is this group, say government officials, which is fuelling the current unrest. The BLA says it carried out several attacks over the last year.
Mr Bugti argues that the BLA’s agenda clearly strikes a chord with the Baloch population.The BLA, for its part, says it is fighting “Punjabi domination” - the sense that Balochistan’s natural resources are being exploited by a state apparatus dominated by people from the province of Punjab.This, they say, results in the “marginalisation of the Baloch population through mega-development projects”.
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A petition to UN/HRC by “Unknown People” asking for signs… Punjabi hatered again…watch out!
http://www.petitiononline.com/baloch/petition.html
…Cntd…
Thousands of unarmed Baloch civilians, including women and children are being forcibly displaced from their homeland, to convert them into Minority in their own home by making place for Punjabi migrants to occupy Baloch land in Gawader and surroundings.
Balochistan is the riches province of Pakistan in terms of resources has been the least developed province, because of illegal occupation by oppressors, Punjabi bureaucracy and army. As per statement of the permanent representative the primary cause of conflict and serious Human Rights violation is illegal occupation, the same economic, social and cultural rights have been never given to the national minorities in Pakistan. The Rights of development is as mentioned has been given only to Punjab province. Development is only done in PUNJAB at the expense of the resources of minority provinces in general and Balochistan in particular
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Goliko, of course this is happening. This happened in Karachi too. It has happened in Balochistan before as well. It happened in former East Pakistan as well. Why would anyone trust the army after so many lies for so long? I cannot blame the Balochis for hating Punjabis when they have suffered so much.
Whenever you remove democracy from a country and order the army to go against its own people, this will happen.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Rubbish.
Pakistan was a democracy in the 1971-77 peiod, when Zulfikar Ali Bhutto ordered the military operation against Balochi tribal miscreants. Thank God he did.
We were a democracy in the 1993-96 period, when Benzair Bhutto sent in the army rangers to smash the MQM rats. Best thing she ever did.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
We have never beel a real democracy since Jinnah died. The army and feudals has always ruled either directly or indirectly. The Bhutto family ruling Pakistan is not democracy. If you think that is democracy then you really don't understand democracy.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
^^ this damage is utterly disgraceful to Pak Army, and they should think about solving this by force like this. i am disgusted.
non development of Blochistan is not always cause of punjabi domination, you them more cause they are more in numbers thats a fact. and urban blochistan, NWFP, Sindh all are part of Army.
the pics shown near pipe lines are not different from any town or village in punjab. my own native village got electricity only recently , GAS or Water is remote things to think of in small cities let alone town or villages. Agri land is non irrigated, and River chenab flows through it. One of first birage on Chenab is few miles away. this village falls under Chuadries of Gujrat vote bank.
so when thinking as people in NWFP or Blochistan are getting less development remote areas in Punjab is also same, its not different from similars areas in Pakistan.
I support rural development of all Pakistan specially the ignored areas in all provinces.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
There is a point that a city like quetta got electricity much after villages in Punjab!
I think that should be a cause of concern!
It is like gunja used karachi money to develop lahore!
If punjab wants to develop, it should levy its own taxes (it has a very large and burgeoning population breeding like rats :p) and fund its development for its most part!
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
You are right…it’s destroying the reputation of Pak army…We need to unite at a time…when every body else around us is trying to create trouble for us & that too very vigorously but so silently that we don’t realise it…
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
A few historical inaccuracies are being bandied about..the first full scale Military op in Baluchistan started in 1958 in response to the forceful imposition of the one unit plan..and was fully launched by Ayub Khan.
The Army Operation in the 1990s in Sind + Karachi was done purely bypassing both Benazir and Nawaz Sharif (NS exercised little power in his first stint as he admitted)
Breaking up Pak into more provinces ..won't make a difference if real powers aren't transferred to the provinces..Prof Khalid Mahmud comment that paksitans power elite was called by commentators in the 1950's and 1960's as the Mohajir-Punjab alliance..to simplify Pakistans problems as being Punjabis are the majority is a gross simplification. What is true is that the middle class urdu speakers till the advent of the MQM and Punjabis till the advent of Nawaz were taken in to accept undemocratic acts as a norm..that mentality is reflected even on this forum at the ease at which people even on this site ..condone the use of violence and unilateral forced decisions for political problems.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Whether you like the Bhutto family or not, Pakistan was a democracy, and the elected governments of ZAB and BB squarely rooted out the miscreants in Balochistan and urban Sindh. Naserullah Babar is hero amongst most non-MQM supporting folk in Karachi for his expert hunting down of those rats, and he is a proud Pathan as well. 
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Nasrullah babar is a pathan?
I thought he was potohari? 
He is such a bahadur according to you that he has never come to karachi after his tenure and remains hidden back in his village.. 
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
The Army Operation in the 1990s in Sind + Karachi was done purely bypassing both Benazir and Nawaz Sharif (NS exercised little power in his first stint as he admitted)
Breaking up Pak into more provinces ..won't make a difference if real powers aren't transferred to the provinces..Prof Khalid Mahmud comment that paksitans power elite was called by commentators in the 1950's and 1960's as the Mohajir-Punjab alliance..to simplify Pakistans problems as being Punjabis are the majority is a gross simplification. What is true is that the middle class urdu speakers till the advent of the MQM and Punjabis till the advent of Nawaz were taken in to accept undemocratic acts as a norm..that mentality is reflected even on this forum at the ease at which people even on this site ..condone the use of violence and unilateral forced decisions for political problems.
^ You are wrong about a couple of things!
Mouhajirs (in the bureacracy I assume you mean?) were and are educated and hence were needed in the early years of Pakistan but that relationship (if you call so) ended when Ayub came into power and the capital was moved the capital to Islamabad. THen it became a punjabi-pathan nexus then to sindhi feudal-punjabi nexus in bhutto era. Mouhajirs were defranchised long before the advent of MQM.
Balochi troubles aside, I am no big fan of BLA. It is basically a sardari run outfit (since I am not a big fan of feudals). Calling him Mush or busharraf, he has done the most for balochistan. Had the sardars of balochistan care about its people (not their egos) then baloch might be in a better situation today to bargain. Look at bhutto for ecample. We all know he was a sindhi feudal hence he rather breakup the country into pieces that would've shared power with Mujib (who by rule of majority had won the election). BUt alas no one (even the educated jahils) see the role he played ALONGSIDE THE ARMY (which he later blamed and himself got a clean chit) in the whole e. pakistan affair.
Re: Punjab - a real problem?
Blitz: You may have misunderstood what I meant, I didn't say Mohajirs had not been eclipsed..prior to the MQM's debut (the turning point would be ZAbs gov)..but the MQM marked their political expression in the form of a ethnic style party. I also do not deny Mohajirs crucial role in Pakistan's development because of their education. However they did dominate Pakistan's civil service till the 1980's and Pakistans bsuiness community till ZAB's Nationalisation. Politically they were in a decline with the ouster of Iskandier Mirza (but they have now staged a comeback with Musharrafs arrival).
However there was no interest in politics..and party based politics through mass mobilisation till the MQM only came on the stage so late simply because they were well esconced in the power system before that...
The ZAB being a cause of the fall of East Pakistan is an old debate..which again is simplistic.. but thats for another thread.
Baluchistan: Yes the Sardars are very influential in Baloch politics and no I don't agree with the system they promote..and yes Musharraf has done more then most for Baluchistan. But here again there is a historical parallel..do you know which leader did the most for East Pakistan from 1947-1971? Surprisingly it was Yahya Khan..more Bengalis were promoted in the CSp and Army then ever before..parity was removed from the LFO..more development was done in East Pakistan then ever before..but deep seated problems need deep seated solutions..they need bold leadership and more importantly the acceptance that giving the Baloch maximum autonomy might mean empowering people that you or I dislike, but..that is democracy..