Someone at masjid made an appeal for donation for earth quake victims. A teenager of middle eastern roots asked Imam. Would it be right to help those people, what if they were being punished by Allah. And I was saying in my mind , inna lilla hay wa inna ilay hay rajaoon.
We are now at a point where we have lost all kind of compassion and sympathy for mankind and all we are left with is all kind of prejudice.
True or false ?
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
mirch..u need to play this clip for this middle eastern guy…and tell him he has more in common with pat robertson and limbaugh..and every word here applies to him as well.
and tell him arabs are being punished by allah too so we should stop helping palestinians etc..right?
May be he is a confused whose parents are teaching him how to gain Jannah ,on the other hand side they are forgetting that helping human beings either they are muslims or not has great rewards.
Where it is written that you cannot help other people PAGAL LOG 
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
I donot think it is Some Nation's/Race Mentatlity ,
Such type of people you will find in any Race/nation/religion.
It just reflects confusion and extrimist thoughts of this person/individual.
Extrimism in sense that, he did not think about that , Should not we help those Innocent children , those weak and Old aged men and women.
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
well most religions do talk to mass killings of humans by God as collective punishment. can you really blame the teen?
well most religions do talk to mass killings of humans by God as collective punishment. can you really blame the teen?
Those religions also give the right of judgment to God as opposed to humans.
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
well.. i don't think humans caused the earthquake. wasn't it God's will and judgement that the earthquake would happen accompanied by death and destruction? then why should a believer rush in to help in rescue and rebuilding? his question seems genuine.
well.. i don't think humans caused the earthquake. wasn't it God's will and judgement that the earthquake would happen accompanied by death and destruction? then why should a believer rush in to help in rescue and rebuilding? his question seems genuine.
You are right from the point of view of a non believer.
But to a believer God is much more than the one who cause death and destruction.
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
Mirch brother,
All suicide bombers also believe they are going to heaven. They have right reasons to think so too.
Simple recipe , call any non-muslim enemy then call his allies enemy.
Blow your self into a shaheed and have what ever is promised to shaheed.
We need to take islam out of the hands of illiterate mullahs or we will keep seeing those things happening in the name of islam.
Mirch brother,
All suicide bombers also believe they are going to heaven. They have right reasons to think so too. Simple recipe , call any non-muslim enemy then call his allies enemy. Blow your self into a shaheed and have what ever is promised to shaheed.
We need to take islam out of the hands of illiterate mullahs or we will keep seeing those things happening in the name of islam.
Yep , you are so right.
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
well.. i don't think humans caused the earthquake. wasn't it God's will and judgement that the earthquake would happen accompanied by death and destruction? then why should a believer rush in to help in rescue and rebuilding? his question seems genuine.
Yes, because the same god who sent the earthquake also designated few people on this who are going to become the savior of some victims who are not suppose to die in this earthquake.
Rush Limbaugh is a jerk, god's punishment to mankind.
Those religions also give the right of judgment to God as opposed to humans.
I so agree with Mirch .. we are no one to judge if its a punishment or not .. for all we are concerned we are no saints ... and even as muslims we are lagging behind in religion. its so harsh to think that another nation is being punished by Allah ...
We as humans should come forward and help them ... and should do so without any second thoughts ...
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
ok here is my version.
I don't think allah press any button out of rage..ever.
Those little events are all part big automation which we call universe.
Things happen all over globe at different time intervals. Ppl who are upto no gud as society ALSO ARE not prepared to defend them self in best possible way.
So as a result they suffer more. No rocket science there. Earthquake in pakistan is a big example. We did not have equipment to dig ppl out!!!! Despite of being a poor nation WE HAVE successfully created bombs to destroy nations. Now you can call that earthquake punishment.
But Its just like a boxer taking punishment BECAUSE he wasn't preparing him self for the bout.
Now why we call it act of God when its an automation. Well who else started it if not him?
we have already discussed fate here:
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-scripture/276708-who-controls-us-why-we-here-fate.html#post5652500
and this is what I said in that post.
My understanding based on Quran:
*Verily, We have created all things with Qadar (Divine Preordainment of all things before their creation as written in the Book of Decrees Al Loh Al Mahfooz). [al-Qamar 54:49] *
is this:
Every action has a predetermined fate. For example fate of fire is to burn things. If you put your hand in fire so the fate of fire dictates that your hand gets burned. In this case you had the choice to put your hand in the fire or not. Allah has not pre-determined that you will put your hand in the fire but He has pre-determined the consequences of doing so. Allah has not pre-determined if you will go to Jannat or Jahannum. Your actions will determine your fate. If you do good deeds your fate is that you go to Jannat that is pre-determined fate of doing good deeds and vice versa.
So what is written in the Loh Al Mahfooz ? Not your fate in terms of your actions , meaning it is not written that you will do good deeds or bad deeds. But it is written in Loh al Mahfooz that if you did good deeds in this world you will be rewarded. So the fate of good deeds is reward and vice versa. So the fate is the natural reaction of your own actions. This concept becomes more powerful with the introduction of free will. Humans have free will which means their fate is not written already but fate of everything else is written already. See the example of fire above.
This explains the reason of bad things happening to good people. Allah has the fate of some else’s actions due to which good people suffer. What about earth quakes and people dying as a result. It is not the fate of those people it the reaction of the earth quake. Why earth quake happened ? It is fate of movement of tectonic plates or lava bubbling out of earth. Why the tectonic plates moved ? It is the fate of the way Allah designed them. Why lava bubbled out of earth ? It is the fate of the way Allah designed the earth. Why Allah designed them this way ? Because he could test and try us whatever way he wanted to. He is the sole creator and designer. He gave us wisdom and free will to stay away from the places where earth quakes can happen but we chose to live there thinking nothing will happen. Look at New Orleans Allah did not design that area for people to live in ,that area is below the sea level but people decided to build a city there .
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
ok this will make things simple.
allah created time. Since he created time he is NOT inside the realm of time. Thats why he never was created neither he is going to end. Time just does not exist for him. There is no before or after for him. In quran it has been mentioned many times.
Now neither he goes through time point by point like we do. To some thing for which time don't exist there is no going forward of backward.
Now he knows where we will be in our relative time measurement at any given point. Because probably its all layed out there for him.
Its not easy to precieve for us they way we were designed, but not for him.
So him having advance knowledge of our future does not make it out fate. Its still us who decide where we will be.
I think.
He gave us wisdom and free will to stay away from the places where earth quakes can happen but we chose to live there thinking nothing will happen.
this is what you believe in, mirch?
this is what you believe in, mirch?
Please do point out what is wrong with that reasoning and thinking and I will stand corrected.
Re: Punishment or prejudice ?
Going by that logic, earthquakes can happen in South Asia too, actually it did happen in Pak back in 2005. Does that mean people shouldn’t live in that region?
Also, UK is one of the country surrounded by Sea, i can argue that soon the weather will get worse, heavy storms will hit the country and eventually UK will be wiped out. Does this mean i should i move out?