Requested by underthedome
What kind of silly vote is this, this is delibertaly trying to incite muslims!
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
What kind of silly vote is this, this is delibertaly trying to incite muslims!
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I agree - even if this was the punishment decreed by Allah, none of us would be in a position to implement it so its a pointless debate.
I think we should be more concerned with things like will Allah forgive us as Muslims for not praying, being proper Muslims, worrying about the affairs of the world etc etc than worrying about this topic. How many of us pray? And those who do pray, how do we know Allah will accept it?
What we do know for sure is that homosexuality is out of the bounds of Islam (and some other major religions agree) - leave the punishment to Allah and worry about bigger things - thousands of people are dying out there for god sake.
Just a quick question: are we allowed to tell the reason why we answered YES or NO ?
I am assuming, the answer must be of religious point of view since the post is in Religion forum, that is if we can.
I requested this poll as several guppies in recent threads have stated that Homosexuals should be killed thus I wanted to see if this view is common among those who visit here.
Anwaar, this question should be answered from your personal view. Feel free to explain why, but I ask you to keep out links and use your own words why you feel the way you do.
If I feel that way which ever would that be, it will be based on the references from quran and ahaadeeth, hence the words of ALLAH :swt: and Rasool:saw: and in few cases references from Sahaaba:razi: or Ulema :rehm:
Do you still want me to quote?
No I don’t, but do you interpret them to mean that Homosexuals should be killed?
As far as I recall, the Quran clearly states that Allah will punish them. What makes us think that we have the right or knowledge to do it?
Besides, people have good traits and bad traits. How do we know that that person wasn't going to find the cure of a horrible disease, or help impoverished people, or whatever. We don't have the right to establish someone else's fate.
I'm with Sahar02 and Neely on this one.
I basically think that if we see somebody taking part in some act that is clearly against Islam- its our duty to try and help them.Standing by doing nothing would be wrong.
However killing is not exactly helping. Allah is the final judge.
Hell no...if that was the case. We wouldn't have victorian plays, geometry, islamic miniatures, artwork from the renaissance, etc..etc..
Rasoolulah:saw: said: Certainly the thing I fear most on my ummah is the (wicked) practice of the people of Loot. *(Tirmizi, Ahmad, Ibn Hajr Al-Haysami, Ad-Duri and Al-Aajuri) (Hadith Hasan) *
— Please, tell me how can I interpret this now?
Hadrat Ali bin Abi Taalib :razi: relates, **‘Whoever allows himself to be used sexually (by becoming a homosexual or sodomite), Allah Ta’ala will expel from him the (natural) desire for women.’ **
— I have no idea, it can be interpreted more than one ways?
Once Abul Aswad brought a letter which he showed to one of his students and said, ’ I bear witness that this letter was dictated by Ali bin Abi Taalib :razi: to Abul Aswad: When men (i.e. homosexuals) will sexually satisfy themselves with men and women (i.e. lesbians) with women, then earthquakes will occur, faces will become transformed and stones will rain down from the skies.’
— May be literal meaning of the above is just a metaphor? I will ponder over it to come up with my own opinion :insha:
Rasoolullah :saw: has also said **“May Allah curse him who does what the people of Loot :as: did.” ** *(Ibn Hibbaan) *
— Now how can I twist and interpret it differently than the literal meaning?
He (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) has also said, **‘Lesbianism by women is adultery between them.’ ** *(Tabraani) *
In Quran, Allah says:
**"And (We also sent) Loot (as a Messenger). ‘Behold, he said to his people, do you do what is shameful even though you see (that it is wrong)? Would you really approach men in your lusts rather than women? Nay, you are a grossly ignorant people!’
But his people gave no other answer but this: They said, ‘Drive out the followers of Loot from your city. These are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!’
But We saved him and His family except his wife: We destined her to be of those who lagged behind.
And We rained down on them a shower (of stones). And evil was the shower on those who were admonished (but failed to heed)."** *(Surah an-Naml, 54-58) *
Allah in Quran questions again:
Do you approach the males of humanity, leaving the wives Allah has created for you? But you are a people who transgress. *(Surah ash-Shu’raa: 165 &166) *
From the first aayah, we learn that these people had themselves admitted that the family of Loot (AS) who had Imaan (belief in Allah) was decent, chaste and morally pure. They also acknowledged that the family of Loot (AS) refrained from this filthy practice. They realised this since it is natural for every person to immediately recognise the pure way of life inspired by Allah Ta’ala when they see it and also to make out any type of unnatural and perverted behaviour.
In the Tafseer (commentary) of these verses it is mentioned that the people of Loot (AS) were practicing both homosexuality and lesbianism. When Allah decided to punish them, He commanded Jibraeel (AS) to lift the village of Loot (AS) to the extent that the angels of the first heaven (sky) could actually hear the barking of their dogs. Jibraeel then turned them over and dropped them from this tremendous height. Thereafter, Allah Ta’ala caused scorching hot stones to rain down upon them. This is how this nation ended up being an example for the rest of mankind until the Day of Qiyaamah.
Imaam Al-Aajuri has said, **‘Allah Ta’ala has informed you about the despicable act of homosexuality committed by the people of Loot (AS) and how He punished them by first snatching away their eyesight. Jibraeel (AS) was then instructed to uproot their cities with all the inhabitants until they were high up into the sky and then turn over their cities upon them. Thereafter they were pelted with stones of clay.’ Such was their punishment that not a single citizen or traveller could save himself from the stones and from being completely destroyed. **
It is said that they were four million in number. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer p.471 vol. 2)
Let us reflect! Why did Allah Ta’ala punish them so severely in such a manner that He had never punished any other nation before? Surely their sin must have been really serious for Allah Ta’ala to have punished and destroyed them in this way.
The punishment awaiting such people in the Hereafter has already been
explained, but what about their punishment in this world?
Since such type of behaviour was previously totally unknown to the Arab people, there is no record of any such incident having occurred during the time of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) or that he was faced with a case of this nature. However, it has been confirmed that Rasulullah
(sallallahu alayhi wasallam) said,
**‘Kill the one who sodomizes and the one to who lets it be done to him.’ **
*(Tirmizi) *
Sayyiduna Abu Bakr (RA) had passed such a ruling and Hadrat Ali (RA) was very severe in his ruling against such a crime. It is established that once Sayyiduna Khaalid bin Waleed (RA) found a man in the frontiers of Arabia marrying another man in the way a woman marries a man, so he wrote about it
to Abu Bakr (RA). When Abu Bakr (RA) consulted with the Sahaabah, Ali (RA) who was the severest in his condemnation of it said, ‘Only one out of the many nations had indulged in it and you all know how Allah Ta’ala had dealt with them. I feel that he should be destroyed by fire.’ So Abu Bakr (RA) wrote back to Sayyiduna Khaalid (RA) who then put the man to death by means of fire.
Ibn Qassaar and Ibn Taymiyyah (AR) have said: **All the Sahaabah (radhiallaahu anhum) were unanimous that he should be killed though some of them differed in the manner in which it should be done. **
Abu Bakr (RA) said that **he should be executed by being thrown from a great height. **
Another view of Hadrat Ali (RA) was that **a wall should be dropped upon him. **
Hadrat Ibn Abbaas, Ali, Jaabir bin Zaid, Abdullah bin Mamar, Imaam Zuhri and Imaam Maalik (radhiallaahu anhum) have said that** those who commit the evil deed of the people of Loot (AS) should be stoned to death, whether they be married or unmarried.** This is also one of the narrations of Imaams Ahmad, Shaafiee and Abu Sawr (AR).
Hadrat Ibn Abbaas (RA) was once asked about the punishment for the homosexual. He replied, **‘He should be taken to the top of the highest building in the town and thrown headlong from there. Then he should be pelted with stones.’ **
Jaabir bin Zaid used to say, ‘The prohibitive decree of the anus is far more serious than the prohibitive decree of the vagina.’ In other words, the prohibition against anal intercourse is far more severe than the prohibition against illegitimate sexual intercourse (with a woman).
Now I have no idea if these literal words need any interpretation or what?
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
No I don’t, but do you interpret them to mean that Homosexuals should be killed?
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Islamic laws are clear about it. penalty is to kill them in public by throwing stones on them till they die.
you can call it cruel. but this execution will straight other. and this is order of God. and God is same for all no matter Muslim or not. under Islamic rules it has to apply. if you are interested in reading Quran, you may want to read what happend with Prophet Loot's nation. they were all destyoed by heavy stone fall from sky. they were involved in homo and had not listen to the prohpet sayings.
Anwaar, then a simple yes, you believe that killing homosexuals is the right thing to do, would have sufficed.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Anwaar, then a simple yes, you believe that killing homosexuals is the right thing to do, would have sufficed.
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I am sorry, did not I ask if we are allowed to tell why? I did not want to post it before asking you :)
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Anwaar, then a simple yes, you believe that killing homosexuals is the right thing to do, would have sufficed.
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that was good read please take time.
Muslim_Queen i think understands it.
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*Originally posted by underthedome: *
Muslim_Queen i think understands it.
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using that logic, the whole system of justice must be abolished because then there is no need of any punishment.
^No. For somethings the Quran specifically calls for punishment. For homosexuality the Quran says Allah will punish.
I agree with MQ.
hence u disagree with the saying of Rasoolulah :saw: and the sahabaa:razi:
by the way, I would really appreciate if u can show me the ayah where " Quran says only Allah will punish homosexuals"?