Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
If you're going to make an analogy between the current situation and the American Disabilities Act (ADA) and the history behind that, then please take the time to educate yourself about the ADA. Disabled people never campaigned to "have their own spaces".
Its not about educating as well are aware of whats going on, its a valid suggestion. A third bathroom is a viable suggestion for people making their own choices.
It just not be possible at this moment as its a huge investment for a small community (so far).
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
I don't know.
The thing that comes to my mind..... what if one day out of the blue, my coworker decides to use the women's restroom because he feels like a woman now >> what is the counter argument to that? What if I'm in the restroom and someone who is very obviously a male and NOT in any way appears as a woman, is there???
Firstly let's realistically think about the odds of that happening. Do you work with men who don't care about their reputation/personal relationships at all and are willing to throw it all away just so they can use the women's bathroom? Given the stigma that's attached to being transgender, do you honestly thing men are going to claim being transgender just to be able to share a women's bathroom? And besides, as I said in the first post in this thread.....if a transgender man (born female but transitioning in to a man) has gone through hormone treatments, looks 100% like a man, like that man in the link I posted with a beard and all.......how would you feel if "she" walked into the bathroom?
Should EVERYONE start carrying a copy of their birth certificate with them? When you walk into a bathroom, how do other women know that you're not a transgender with a penis?
Besides, why does it matter so much if someone with a penis is in the bathroom? Is it b/c you assume that person is attracted to females? Does it make a difference if the man was gay? What about lesbian women.....are you 100% comfortable in a bathroom or locker room knowing there may be other women there who are potentially sexually attracted to you?
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
Its not about educating as well are aware of whats going on, its a valid suggestion. A third bathroom is a viable suggestion for people making their own choices. It just not be possible at this moment as its a huge investment for a small community (so far).
No, going by the comments not only in this thread but also on social media in general, it's clear that a lot of education needs to take place. Most people seem to be clueless about the transgender community and seem to think it's all about men dressing in women's clothes out of kink. A lot of discrimination takes place due to people's ignorance about a group.....whether it's keeping black people in separate facilities or treating gays/lesbians or even people with HIV/AIDS differently......or even people thinking all Muslims hate the west and are terrorists......lack of education is a big component to all this uproar.
You already noted that requiring every single business to have a 3rd separate bathroom is not financially feasible. But even if that was feasible, the point of all this is to not force a group of people to use a separate bathroom like they're contagious or criminals. If there is a separate 3rd bathroom, then anyone who does not want to use the main bathroom for whatever reason should be the one to use it. That's how you let people make their own choices. But that wasn't the suggestion.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
Firstly let's realistically think about the odds of that happening. Do you work with men who don't care about their reputation/personal relationships at all and are willing to throw it all away just so they can use the women's bathroom? Given the stigma that's attached to being transgender, do you honestly thing men are going to claim being transgender just to be able to share a women's bathroom? And besides, as I said in the first post in this thread.....if a transgender man (born female but transitioning in to a man) has gone through hormone treatments, looks 100% like a man, like that man in the link I posted with a beard and all.......how would you feel if "she" walked into the bathroom?
Should EVERYONE start carrying a copy of their birth certificate with them? When you walk into a bathroom, how do other women know that you're not a transgender with a penis?
Besides, why does it matter so much if someone with a penis is in the bathroom? Is it b/c you assume that person is attracted to females? Does it make a difference if the man was gay? What about lesbian women.....are you 100% comfortable in a bathroom or locker room knowing there may be other women there who are potentially sexually attracted to you?
No, good point about the locker room, I edited my original post--I don't have any issue with lesbians in a locker room.
To me, it's someone who is very obviously male looking (like the bearded guy in your link) using the womens room that just creeps me out. It just does. I wouldn't be bothered if the woman in the second link were to use the restroom. In other words, use the bathroom of the gender you look like?? or unisex bathrooms >> eliminates the problems!
I admit I'm all over about this. I don't agree w the argument that this would increase assault.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
No, good point about the locker room, I edited my original post--I don't have any issue with lesbians in a locker room.
To me, it's someone who is very obviously male looking (like the bearded guy in your link) using the womens room that just creeps me out. It just does. I wouldn't be bothered if the woman in the second link were to use the restroom. In other words, use the bathroom of the gender you look like?? or unisex bathrooms >> eliminates the problems!
I admit I'm all over about this. I don't agree w the argument that this would increase assault.
Sorry, you can't do anything about it. Transgenderism is not about how you appear but how you feel. So if I feel like a woman during the office hours, I can walk in the restroom behind you.
At least that is the message I am getting in this thread
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
To me, it's someone who is very obviously male looking (like the bearded guy in your link) using the womens room that just creeps me out. It just does. I wouldn't be bothered if the woman in the second link were to use the restroom. In other words, use the bathroom of the gender you look like?? or unisex bathrooms >> eliminates the problems!
So you are ok with transgender people using the bathroom they're transitioning into rather than what their birth certificate says? Meaning you are against the North Carolina law? The bearded guy in my link may have a vagina and the woman in the second link may have a penis. But what you're saying is that what's between their legs doesn't matter. That bearded guy in my link wants to use the men's room! His twitter post points out that the North Carolina law forces him to use the women's bathroom/locker room.
Unisex bathrooms mean it's designated for men AND women. So that means you'd be sharing the bathroom with ALL men. And yes, you are correct that this eliminates the problem.
The woman in my second link....you really think that it's ok to force people who look like her to use the men's bathroom without putting them at an increased risk of being assaulted? That's the argument that it would increase assault. North Carolina law says that a transgender person who looks like her MUST use the men's bathroom if she has not had the final surgery to remove the penis AND has not gone through the long process of changing their birth certificate. Do you really think it's safe for transgender people who look like her on the outside to use men's restrooms?
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
Sorry, you can't do anything about it. Transgenderism is not about how you appear but how you feel. So if I feel like a woman during the office hours, I can walk in the restroom behind you. At least that is the message I am getting in this thread
You think transgender people feel like a certain gender during certain hours or during certain days? You really think the decision to start using a certain restroom is taken lightly by a transgender person and it's something they just do one day randomly?
General Question: How many of you actually know someone in real life who is transgender?
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
Certain time of the day comment was intentional. Point is this that you can't appoint a genitals police to check who is transgender, and you can't judge just by appearance, as a cross dresser is probably not a transgender. So that pretty much means that anyone can walk into any restroom based on just inner feelings, and no one should challenge it.
I am not denying anyone's rights (transgender in this case) or making fun of someone's psychological state. I am just saying that in order to preserve minority's rights, one has to keep the respect of the thought process of norms in mind.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
So you are ok with transgender people using the bathroom they're transitioning into rather than what their birth certificate says? Meaning you are against the North Carolina law? The bearded guy in my link may have a vagina and the woman in the second link may have a penis. But what you're saying is that what's between their legs doesn't matter. That bearded guy in my link wants to use the men's room! His twitter post points out that the North Carolina law forces him to use the women's bathroom/locker room.
Unisex bathrooms mean it's designated for men AND women. So that means you'd be sharing the bathroom with ALL men. And yes, you are correct that this eliminates the problem.
The woman in my second link....you really think that it's ok to force people who look like her to use the men's bathroom without putting them at an increased risk of being assaulted? That's the argument that it would increase assault. North Carolina law says that a transgender person who looks like her MUST use the men's bathroom if she has not had the final surgery to remove the penis AND has not gone through the long process of changing their birth certificate. Do you really think it's safe for transgender people who look like her on the outside to use men's restrooms?
No, I don't think I made that clear.
The man in the link (bearded) should use the mens room bc he LOOKS LIKE A MAN (idc if surgery or no surgerY).
Same for the woman.
Another thing is..... how would this even come up? Both of tehse people look very obviously like the gender they want to be. How would anyone even question them? It doesn't make sense to me.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
^ we have a transgender person at work- "man to woman" conversion who uses the women's restrooms. I don't know if she has had surgery (b/c she still sounds like a man and has manly features), but she has been using the women's restrooms before this issue even came up in the mainstream media. does it make me uncomfortable? the first time it did,and let me explain. the first time i walked into the women's restroom, she was already in another stall so i didn't even notice her until she started coughing really loud while i was taking care of business. It scared the s*** out of me because I thought a guy had come into the restroom! so i quickly washed up and was heading out when i saw it was her (she's about 6 feet tall so she almost hovers over the stalls). i made sure to get out quickly because i felt weird and uncomfortable.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
I have worked with two, at two different companies, both man by birth and woman by choice. I treated them based on their appearance. First person I hardly interacted, but second one was in my department and we used to chat a lot. I am assuming that both were using ladies restroom.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
Its not about educating as well are aware of whats going on, its a valid suggestion. A third bathroom is a viable suggestion for people making their own choices.
It just not be possible at this moment as its a huge investment for a small community (so far).
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
If you're going to make an analogy between the current situation and the American Disabilities Act (ADA) and the history behind that, then please take the time to educate yourself about the ADA. Disabled people never campaigned to "have their own spaces".
And you need to educate yourself about transwomen.they are not a homogenous group of pained individuals. Google Alex Drummond, Davina Aryton etc etc.there are convicted rapists with lady-penises. These are "transwomen" who "feel" like women and want access to women only spaces having not been through any gender reassignment surgery. Would you be happy with these "transwomen" in women changing rooms or women refuges etc?
Wearing a dress and putting on lipstick doesn't make someone a woman. Having female sex organs is the distinction based on biology.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
Firstly let's realistically think about the odds of that happening. Do you work with men who don't care about their reputation/personal relationships at all and are willing to throw it all away just so they can use the women's bathroom? Given the stigma that's attached to being transgender, do you honestly thing men are going to claim being transgender just to be able to share a women's bathroom? And besides, as I said in the first post in this thread.....if a transgender man (born female but transitioning in to a man) has gone through hormone treatments, looks 100% like a man, like that man in the link I posted with a beard and all.......how would you feel if "she" walked into the bathroom?
Should EVERYONE start carrying a copy of their birth certificate with them? When you walk into a bathroom, how do other women know that you're not a transgender with a penis?
Besides, why does it matter so much if someone with a penis is in the bathroom? Is it b/c you assume that person is attracted to females? Does it make a difference if the man was gay? What about lesbian women.....are you 100% comfortable in a bathroom or locker room knowing there may be other women there who are potentially sexually attracted to you?
I am not concerned about lesbian women because they don't have the advantage of physical biology and strength over me and I would absolutely not want to share a changing room with someone with a pe is.
1 in 4 women are sexually assaulted and the vast vast majority by men. Why should their right to feel safe be over ruled.
Re: Public restrooms for transgenders / transvestites
This debate is now taken to a whole different level. WH has jumped in and Obama admin has asked all schools now to let Trans students use wutever the bathroom matches their gender identity.
Several factions are opposing it, in particular Christian groups who’ll be going to court against it. (They already are in court in chicago)
One more very important thing I found yesterday is that carolina law doesnt only talk about gender bathroom usage, its also that it explicitly says if anyone is “fired” on the base of “gender” or “race” discrimination, they’ll not be able to sue against it in any state court. How sweet!
