I was having lunch with two colleagues of mine and we were discussing ‘stuff’…this topic of pda came in our conversation.
One of the ladies who is originally from Croatia was of the view that Canada is very conservative as compared to European countries …North Americans are bunch of depressed people who don’t feel love in the air …she said she was surprised not to see couples kissing on the streets…it is spring/summer for god sake! She exclaims.
The Canadian lady got back to her with ‘couples should get a room’ statement if they wanna do hanky-panky business. It is odd and unacceptable. We don’t want our children to see it. She said if she sees people going nuts on the streets she would roll down her car’s window and give them a piece of her mind.
I was enjoying and smiling at their conversation when suddenly they turned towards me and asked for my opinion. Well, me being a desi told them I don’t mind people having sex on the beach but in Pakistan if you are caught with a girl in a car …u better make sure u have contacts in police station.
Where do u stand on this issue…Does it make you uncomfortable, if not for urself then for ur kids when you see people going gaga over each other in public areas.
Depends on where you are and what the other couple is doing. In Pakistan, even holding hands on a street is frowned over. In USA, you can kiss and smooch. In Europe, its probably a step ahead.
Personally, after living in the west for a while the feeling of 'shock' (so to speak) at this behavior slowly wears off, replaced by a numbness. At the moment, one may try to divert the attention of a 5 yr old daughter to some other thing to avoid them looking at a smooching couple in a mall, but its only a matter of time.
This is the culture here, and like it or not, its only gonna get worse or more liberated (depending on how you look at it) with time. Those of us (desis) who live here, make a concious decision and this is part of that decision. Those who think this aspect of the western culture is the primary sort key of their decision, are well-advised to move back to Pakistan or to some middle-eastern country. There is no compulsion. However, you can run but you can't hide. If you live here, this is part of it. Even if it makes you uncomfortable, then you gotta deal with it.
The severity of the public display is also important. Some actions, while tolerated on a beach setting might be totally inappropriate in a picnic area or a mall. I wouldn't want my daughter to look at a couple actually making out in full public view, but am getting tolerant of public kissing and hugs. Same goes for myself. :)
It depends on the level of affection being shown. Holding hands, laughing, smiling and other genuine shows of affection are nothing much to object to. People kiss each other goodbye on train stations all the time. When it starts to get into a heavy clinch then it becomes a case of how far is acceptable in a public place.
In the UK public smooching is pretty much the norm, but despite this being the 21st century, I have never seen homosexuals smooching in public which seems a bit strange. Just to broaden the discussion slightly, how many of you would like your children to see two men french kissing? Or two women for that matter?
Children ki baat choro... even I wouldn't like to see two men french kissing. Whether I object to it or not is something else... pasand apni apni. They have their life, I have mine. They can make any choice they want.
Peacemaker..pakistan is way above hand holding. My sis just came back from pakistan and she told me she saw guyz and girlz opening sticking their tongues down each others throats at McDz.
She also saw 2 girls kissin up the statue of Ronald Mcdonald.
I think hand holding between married couples is cool..but when it comes to other forms of PDA…no way
*“Labaik, Allahumma Labaik, Labaik La Sharika Laka Labaik, Innal Hamda Wa N’amata Laka Wal Mulk, La Sharika Lak.” “Here I am at your service, O Allah, here I am. Here I am at your service and no partners do you have. Verily All Praise and All Bounty belong to you, and Yours alone is The Sovereignty. No partners do you have.”
*
They have their life, I have mine. They can make any choice they want.
No one is arguing about their choices. It is merely a thread to get your opinion. My own opinion on this is that it would probably turn my stomach. However, living in the UK of course they have as much right as anyone else. But strangely it isn't seen much except late at night outside gay bars.
p.s. I note you didn't object to seeing two women french kissing. This is a seperate subject in itself.
Kids are exposed to a lot more on TV these days than to see people kissing (or making out in their cars – or on beaches). I think it is nice. Why be inhibited? If one is comfortable enough showing affection in public, more power to them. Then there is a separate debate about showing repugnance in public, like when you see two people cursing the hell out of each other in public. That I think is not very pleasant to witness (but is entertaining nonetheless).
Xtreme. Yesterday in the city was Gay Pride Day parade. Man, what a colorful atmosphere it was. Some excellent stuff. I wish I had taken my kids along. May be next year.
Thinking of it, my boys have never been to nude beaches, but next week they are going to Greece by themselves, and I hope that they don’t giggle and get shocked when they see the nudies. European kids are all exposed to nude beaches, so to them it is very natural.
You can find isolated instances everywhere. McDz is frequented by folks who may have slightly different ethical values than majority Pakistanis... I have seen people kissing in Pakistan, but that is by no means a ferquent sight on the streets, in the bazaar or in a public place.
Xtreme,
How clever of you. I had deliberately left the issue of women kissing. Yes that is a a separate subjects. I didn't want to open too many fronts at once. :)
Well, living near San Francisco has its own (de-)merits and a healthy dose of homosexual culture is one of that.
ps. Hinna, what do u mean "2 girls kissin up the statue of Ronald Mcdonald"...?? Those girls were kissing a statute? If they were, whats wrong with it? They may be just posing for a snap shot and may be they were just 10 years old having a fun time. :)
How come it's always the desis on campus which swallow each other in public. It is geross!! Not the whites or blacks, but the indians that eat each others faces in the middle of nowhere!! and everyone knows its the indians. I think its cute to the extent of holding hands n stuff, otherwise, plz get a roooommm!!!
It depends...
When my husband and I are out at times we hold hands. Or he puts his arm around my shoulders. Also in the presence of my family. But when his mother is around she freaks out if I sit next to him on the sofa! Well by now she has gotten used to it somewhat but she is still caustic about it, and that conditions the way you behave, right?
Maybe it would be interesting to think why we react the way we do.
[This message has been edited by Shirin (edited June 26, 2001).]
I skipped everybody's reply
it was my frist day back at work
i feel like sh!t
anywayz
i just want to add one lil thing that keeps nagging me
What bout a couple showing affection towards each other infront of their kids
I read somewhere that if the mother and father hug and are affectionate towards each other in the presence of the kids
the children will know that they belong in a loving and caring environment and will be more confident bout themselves
both of you.
Shirin - We do that. but both families lived out of Pakistan for over 30 years. More open minded/accepting.
Anchal - last post - Would affect his issue: http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum46/HTML/000028.html
greatly. Kids don’t see how it is supposed to be…hand holding, touching, rough-housing (besides alone
Guys and gals,
I think it is not only the case with affection. It could be anything loke, suppose I buy a new car and I go to park I start cleaning/polishing, I go to work spend sometime there, I visit someone before I go in spend some time "kissing" my car again. Or it could be anything. anybody who will see me will think- yeah yeah we know you love your car magar ab aisa bhi kia.
It could be my kids al the time hugging or should I say her dum ka chumkarna puchkarna... just because I love my kids so much. it's just simply annoying.
I can go on and on and on ...
Reminds me, while waiting for a flight at the airport, there was this couple sitting in front of me. They were just holding hands, and looking at each other and smiling. Nothing else. While I found their looking at each other in that way very cute (well, the couple was cute too), my buddy sitting next to me got pretty irritated. He started walking up and down and in general became quite obnoxious.
Later, he said that this was gross! Meaning, a couple should not show deep affection for each other like that in public. I still think my friend was stuck up and a fool (and probably missing his wife). But the point is, when we talk of PDA, does it only mean deep kissing and flesh exposing, or it can be just a sweet gesture or a deep look or a loving smile?
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Originally posted by Peacemaker: They were just holding hands, and looking at each other and smiling. Nothing else. While I found their looking at each other in that way very cute (well, the couple was cute too)
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Ah well.... that gives me a warm feeling deep inside. I think that erotic and affectionate behaviour are somewhat different, no? but somehow in our culture the two get easily confused.
Consider these two scenes:
A grown up kissing or hugging a baby or child.
Two adults angry with each other and being very unpleasant with each other
We probnably would think the first was fine, the second unpleasant but acceptable... but a couple looking at each other affectionately, for many people would be a no-no... is the problem one of upbringing and culture?
I grew up with a mother who would often say, "how lovely to see people who are so happy", or smiling at people... now that's not really common in the desi culture is it? but it obvioulsy gave me a different angle on the way I look at people.
[quote]
Originally posted by Peacemaker:
**Reminds me, while waiting for a flight at the airport, there was this couple sitting in front of me. They were just holding hands, and looking at each other and smiling. Nothing else. While I found their looking at each other in that way very cute (well, the couple was cute too), my buddy sitting next to me got pretty irritated. He started walking up and down and in general became quite obnoxious.
Later, he said that this was gross! Meaning, a couple should not show deep affection for each other like that in public. I still think my friend was stuck up and a fool (and probably missing his wife). But the point is, when we talk of PDA, does it only mean deep kissing and flesh exposing, or it can be just a sweet gesture or a deep look or a loving smile?**
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Is that buddy of yours a Pakistani or a Gora? Many desis seem to be sceptical about couples showing the slightest affection for each other in public. IMHO, there are limits of course, but holding hands, loving smiles or looks is nothing to be irritated.
Xtreme: It depends on the level of affection being shown. Holding hands, laughing, smiling and other genuine shows of affection are nothing much to object to…….homosexuals smooching in public which seems a bit strange
Is it ‘strange’ because it is not a ‘genuine’ show of affection?
Hina: I think hand holding between married couples is cool..but when it comes to other forms of PDA…no way…..Ny: Why be inhibited? If one is comfortable enough showing affection in public, more power to them.
Hina, why NO WAY! What do you have to say about NyAhmadi’s statement? And Catty Who are we to tell others to ‘get a room’.
Shirin : But when his mother is around she freaks out if I sit next to him on the sofa! Well by now she has gotten used to it somewhat but she is still caustic about it, and that conditions the way you behave, right?
Do you like freaking out ur mother in law
If my dad is around while I’m watching TV….. all I do is watch News or Discovery channel…not that he would say anything but I’ll feel odd watching sex in the city in his presence. Do ‘we’ owe our parents this behavior/respect or ‘they’ should be more understanding? If we can worry about our parents then we should worry about everyone else’s on the street as well, no?
Anchal: What bout a couple showing affection towards each other infront of their kidsI read somewhere that if the mother and father hug and are affectionate towards each other in the presence of the kids
That’s a good point…I think it should be a thread on its own. I haven’t seen a lot of desi parents believing or acting on it.
Ssultan: anybody who will see me will think- yeah yeah we know you love your car magar ab aisa bhi kia
Aisa bhi kya meri jaan? Its his car
Umer: IMHO, there are limits of course, but holding hands, loving smiles or looks is nothing to be irritated
Please define “Limits”…what if your definition of limits is different from mine or Johnny’s or Pristine’s.
PM: I wouldn’t want my daughter to look at a couple actually making out in full public view, but am getting tolerant of public kissing and hugs. Same goes for myself.
Good for u man! Maybe Tolerance is the key word.
[quote]
Originally posted by BoSS:
***Xtreme: It depends on the level of affection being shown. Holding hands, laughing, smiling and other genuine shows of affection are nothing much to object to…….homosexuals smooching in public which seems a bit strange*
Is it ‘strange’ because it is not a ‘genuine’ show of affection?
Ciao
BoSS**
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Why would you consider PDA between homosexuals "not genuine"?
