Prove to me that there is no Allah

[fayax]

i understand what you are saying; but the original poster is asking for a logical proof, and he isn't an atheist - his belief is faith-based. there is no logical claim made in faith which has to be disproved.

if someone believes in a certain concept which isn't obvious to others, the onus of proof is on the person making the claim. saying "i cant prove it and choose to believe in it without any proof, but if you won't believe me, i demand proof for your claim" is not acceptable. and that is the originally poster's stance.

Got it.

[hollowman]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

there is nothing like Allah exists anywhere, these religions and gods are designed by men for their own benefits, some rules have been written by a men on a paper and people follow them blindly, this is what called Pandugiri

[words]

Hello,

It is in response to the first post of this thread.

Those who do not believe in Allah have their chance to prove that no God , or no Allah exists.

As pointed out by few other posts, that the burden of proof lies on one who asserts. So i'm not trying here to prove non-existence of God. But i found your questions interesting and i'll give my opinion on them, since they are personal in essence.

How do you console yourself when you are hit by some calamity ?

I behave just like other humans, Initially not believing that such a thing has happened to me, going through stress of denial and what i got so far in life, i accept it, i don't think of a God.

And don't try to forcely make up a bad enemy who had done this to me. Music helps me in bad times, Writing also helps me, which makes a kind of conversation with myself.

What calms you down when you are desperate and things are not going the right way ?

The understanding that being desparate won't change things for me, the better way is look at, what can i do here to change things, I'm not saying that i'm not emotional and on some occasions i don't behave that rationally but that's because i'm just a human.

We the believers believe that Allah has something better planned for us and that is very soothing and calming. In your stressful times what helps you cope with it ?

What calms me? The company of someone i like, the good memories of good times, The understanding that life in itself is a meaningless thing so why to worry? and why not enjoy? why not be happy and look for positives?

I believe in the moment the present that is passing by, and since i have a profound interest and curiosity for human nature and existence, i do find interesting things even in ridiculous scenarios, I believe many people are interested in the life itself.

If you do not believe on the day of judgment then what is the force which stops you from committing crimes ?

Even when i was a believer, even than it was only me, who could stop myself from commiting crime, and same is the case now.

You can understand this point, since most of the muslims believe that they are pious enough to go directly to heaven, Since they had commited sins, so after getting punishment for there crimes they will finally go to heaven. So when they commit some crime, they think that either God will forgive them, or if not they will stay in hell a little more longer, after all finally they are going to heaven.

What about the frameworks society has imposed on you which society has borrowed from religion ?

We all disagree more or less with some of the rules, Further being grown in a culture, i live the way most of the people are living here, And i'm doing this because this is what i am.

I'm not some french or german. I live in this land, i grown up here, I can understand the significance of the way society works. I disagree on some points on which most of the open minded people agree with me, further culture is never a static thing its dynamic changing all the time, and also culture had capacity to encorporate all kinds of people.

Why do you follow them if you do not believe in the religion from which those rules and laws have been derived ?

I don't beleive that religion is God send thing, its man made so whatever is there in religion is just a polished shape of some auspect of culture, in some specific space and time. You can call it a cultural movement kind of thing, i.e. some people observe somethings in culture and they provide solutions to those from within culture, some that its acceptable to the people living in that culture and don't sound alien, thats what religion is.

So for me i'm following the way i used to live, Thats what i am..

[queer]

The very fact that we cannot create life from scratch or prevent death is proof enough that some superior power exists. But then I suppose some people could say oh boom, one fine day everything was created out of nothing, all by itself. Oh well.

this is another fallacy. atheists aren't the ones claiming everything was created out of nothing. just because we don't know something right now/may never know does not mean we have to believe in something that defies logic and reason. we should if it makes us sleep better at night.

secondly, believing in a God as a superior power as the answer to all the unknowns of origins of everything around us does not answer where or how everything came about. it merely pushes the question behind the curtain of an unquestionable God. for eg., it doesn't say where or how God came from.

if you are willing to accept an eternal ever-present God, it is pretty much the equivalent of accepting an ever present universe.

[Monk]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

I would ask, what is the millage like.

[TLK]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

1. The theory of big bang describes a phenomenon of creation of everything out of nothingness.
2. The inflation of universe,
3. The fact that for every 10 billion anti protons, universe created 10 billion and 1 protons,
4. The fact that electron exists but only in virtual state, not in real world....

if you scientific minds want to believe, read the cosmology 101 with open mind. That should be enough proof that a Super Power is in charge

[Mirch]

@queer

if you are willing to accept an eternal ever-present God, it is pretty much the equivalent of accepting an ever present universe.

That is very valid and powerful argument. Let me see if I can find a rebuttal to it.

[Yea_Boii]

@TLK

1. The theory of big bang describes a phenomenon of creation of everything out of nothingness.

well it aint "nothingness", its actually called singularity. Now who knows what that "singularity" was. Somehow that burst into an endless exsistence of universes.

[fayax]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

The questions is inherently rhetorical to the extreme.

The created cannot prove the existence of the creator - no matter how smart the created gets. After all there are limits to our understanding of things. Case in point is that we cannot imagine something in our heads that has existed for ever...because then we start thinking "ok, what was before that?" Thats where we lose our amazing ability to think.

[TLK]

@queer

if you are willing to accept an eternal ever-present God, it is pretty much the equivalent of accepting an ever present universe.

I am sorry but I did not get it. Both Quran and Bible talk about the creation of universe, proving that universe is not infinite. How does an infinite universe become the only logical proof of existance of God..

or did I miss the comment all together

[TLK]

@Yea_Boii

well it aint "nothingness", its actually called singularity. Now who knows what that "singularity" was. Somehow that burst into an endless exsistence of universes.

Dude, pretty much, the term Singularity is a scientific term for 'Nothingness'

[queer]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

TLK, your statement #1 is untrue. i recommend reading "The God Particle" by leon lederman. the big bang theory claims the universe was born out of a singularity, and a singularity is NOT the same thing as nothingness. and in any case, the theory is not accepted as the complete picture.

no offense meant, but i don't think you have the necessary background to cite concepts of modern physics.

[Yea_Boii]

@TLK

I am sorry but I did not get it. Both Quran and Bible talk about the creation of universe, proving that universe is not infinite. How does an infinite universe become the only logical proof of existance of God..

or did I miss the comment all together

I think Queer was responding to the what frequently people say when they get asked, "WHo created God/Allah?" as in that God has been around forever, so he didnt need to be created. SO queer's point was that if you can accept the argument that God has been around forever, it is no different than the argument that the universe has been around foreover (hence no God).

[TLK]

@queer

TLK, your statement #1 is untrue. i recommend reading "The God Particle" by leon lederman. the big bang theory claims the universe was born out of a singularity, and a singularity is NOT the same thing as nothingness. and in any case, the theory is not accepted as the complete picture.

no offense meant, but i don't think you have the necessary background to cite concepts of modern physics.

No offense taken but I suggest that you read 'Symbiotic Universe' and then we will talk about the concepts of Modern Physics that prove the existence of God.

Singularity, the state where laws of physics do not hold, is as good as the time where nothing was in existence, at least the entities that we now are familiar with, i.e. Matter, time, energy and all ..

For argument sake, lets agree that Singularity is not nothingness. Tell me a valid theory, why singularity should burst into a universe that has all that we observe today.

and when you throw the remarks like how much I dont know about modern physics, you assume too much. That is all I can say.

[TLK]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

The unfortunate part about human brain is that we believe that what we dont know or cannot prove should not exist. The believe that Earth not being center of the universe was a punishable crime, only few hundreds years ago just because of that mindset.

There still is a 'Flat Earth Society' in existence that believe that earth is flat.

Some of us will keep arguing about the existence of God because we need a logic that satisfies our puny little brains, though we live all our life believing in things that defy any logic, but when it comes to proving God, we need a proof out from a Test Lab.

[queer]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

TLK, i don't think we live our life believing in things that defy logic. most things we do are very logical, imho.

we have brains, puny or not. and we need logic. how many things you do in your daily life are based on blind faith? proof and accountability are important for us to function at even a basic level.

[bebo]

TLK without the curiosity, reason and logical ability of this "punny" little brain we would still be living in caves.

[Monk]

@queer

t doesn't say where or how God came from.

if you are willing to accept an eternal ever-present God, it is pretty much the equivalent of accepting an ever present universe.

With out your crap plz tell.

1-when was time created?
2-What if an object is out side of the sphere of time?
3-Is time even constant?? on all points of universe?
4-what make you aware we are moving "forward" in time.

Please keep them short. I want to see your understanding of time. As you clearly mention time is imposed on God too. Don't make mockery Plz answer.

Thats is one LAME statement you gave. And you are not getting away with it :)

[TLK]

@queer

TLK, i don't think we live our life believing in things that defy logic. most things we do are very logical, imho.

we have brains, puny or not. and we need logic. how many things you do in your daily life are based on blind faith? proof and accountability are important for us to function at even a basic level.

@bebo

TLK without the curiosity, reason and logical ability of this "punny" little brain we would still be living in caves.

Ok guys, tell me the logic behind Love, ego, greed. Are these not real traits that human beings live with ?

[Iconoclast]

Re: Prove to me that there is not Allah

bebo

TLK has a very valid argument, things that we cannot comprehend are either denied or a plausible explanation is presented. Myths in past were few of those and "theories" today too are a form.