Hi!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Iwasnt sure whether to put this topic in the Society forum or on here…
How prevalent in prostitution in Pakistan? Is it just in “Heera Mandi” or everywhere? If everywhere why is Heera Mandi so famous–what is the difference between a “tawaif” and a normal prostitute? Is it like “high class hookers” and “normal hookers”?
etc. etc.
Is it officially illegal?
Hold on, hold on.... "heera mundi" is essentially a place where the women sing and dance. It is not a prostitution den per se. Many culturally sauve ppl will claim that "heera mundi" is the cultural epicenter of Lahore (or any other city). A "tawaif" is technically the singer/dancer, who may or may not be offering sexual favours after the music ends in the wee hours of the morning. There is no denying that extra-marital sexual activities are also offered on the side, but they are by no means the dominant business in that area. As a matter of fact, the place is not populated by prostitutes alone, but rather whole families live there, and they claim their livlihood through music. There are many other business which flourish there, including some highly famous food outlets.
Prostitution is no way limited to heera mundi. It is everywhere. Upper class prostitution is provided everywhere, including top of the line hotels. They are not referred to as "Tawaif" but rather with the generic noun "Call girls", probably because they are unable to sing and dance like a tawaif of heera mundi. The more talented tawaifs of heera mundi have their aim to enter into the film indutry.
Officially it is illegal, but unofficially it is tolerated. Many times, when a righteous SSP is appointed a customary raid is carried out to round up a few pimps and a few women, but they are released after a night or two and everything goes back to normal.
Concur with PM. This reminded me of the last time I went to Pakistan, in '82. We lived in Nazimabad #3, Karachi. One day I visited a maternal grandmother in Pak Colony. During the visit I stepped out for a walk and to look around outside the house. Her youngest son came out, my uncle and my age, and hung around with me for a few minutes before he says "Well if you need any girls let me know". I was just floored. I remember thinking "Here? in Pakistan? No one's asked me this in States but I am in a Muslim country." I have grown up and wised up since then.
Once we friends got together and went to the Old City of Lahore for a wholesome breakfast, on our way back, it was decided to take a fly-by through the "sacred place". So, we intentionally and unneedingly passed through the road at the back of the Badshahi Mosque. That's the closest I've ever been to Heera Mundi.
Anyway, just for your information, the people at heera mundi aren't that bad. I somewhere read that in the old days they were such an important part of the society that the Nobels sent the siblings to them just to learn ethics. Now dat's some news for u...
bye,
Haydur.
You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.
>>I somewhere read that in the old days they were such an important part of the society that the Nobels sent the siblings to them just to learn ethics.
Thats reading! :)
The only ethics these Nobel's will learn there is the fine art of Kamasutra, whatever. The status of "tawaif" has been grossly over-hyped and glamorized in the movies and our literature. Infact, heera mundi is quite a run-down sort of place. They most certainly don't look like what they show in "Umrao-Jaan" or "Muqaddar ka Sikandar" sorta movies; the marvellous and grand room, finely furnished, grand "fanoos", a silver lined dance floor and a gorgeously made-up siren dancing on the fine tunes of table and harmonium. I have been told that the dance halls (mujra khanas) infact are small, smelly, dingy rooms with little ventilation. And the dancers for most part are not exactly film star material either. :)
However its true that till some time back (and also these days) some families (the old money folks) take great pride when their sons are old enough to go to heera mundi (either to appreciate the music there or to start their sexual adventures). Some sort of coming-of-age tradition. Its said that there is no red-blooded Lahori son (ghabro jawaan) who has not been to heera mundi. What utter nonsense!
[This message has been edited by Peacemaker (edited June 25, 2001).]
Please read the term "old days" carefully. I wasn't referring to the current condition of the place... nope, I was referring to the "old days".
And, yes these places may be dingy places that smell today. But this certainly wasn't the case in the "old days". Even fiction like "Umrao Jan" are loosely based upon reality and society trends at that time.
And btw, there should've been a question mark after "What utter nonsense"(?)
b'bye,
Haydur.
You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.
And, yes these places may be dingy places that smell today. But this certainly wasn't the case in the "old days". Even fiction like "Umrao Jan" are loosely based upon reality and society trends at that time.
Ummmm.... excuse me :) but I was never there in the "old days" (or in the present days as well), so I will defer to your words and experience as you may be witness to those places in those grand old days or may have heard from someone who was there.
You seem to know what you are talking about (see the confident tone in the bold part). I am talking about the present.
ps. And no, it was not a question mark, it was an exclamation mark. Why would it be a question mark? :)
[This message has been edited by Peacemaker (edited June 25, 2001).]
I don't care what all of you thinks but heera mandi is a degrading part of our county. I think it should be burned down to the ground with all the workers in it. What a shame for a Muslim country to turn its face on some thing that is considered a major sin. And don't try to defend Heera Mandi because it will make you look like you know what.
Actually, you know, this was tried in several places. The result was that these women just spread out in different parts of the city making it harder to track them down. As we all know, prostitution is one of the oldest professions (so to speak) and as long as there is demand for it, there will be a supply. Like it or not. Degrading or not.
Well burn the place down first, so we don't have a single area famous for Prostitution. And use the islamic law to treat both the men and women involved in it. And i mean use it in public. If it's the oldest profession does not mean it has to be excepted.
>>If it's the oldest profession does not mean it has to be excepted.
You lost me here. What do u mean? :)
Well burn the place down first, so we don't have a single area famous for Prostitution
Once you have explained peacemaker then please take some time to explain me the buring part as well...
I'm assuming its the same idea what Talibans did to buddah statues, right?
ciao
BoSS
[quote]
Originally posted by Peacemaker:
***>>If it's the oldest profession does not mean it has to be excepted.*
You lost me here. What do u mean? :)**
[/quote]
You are bad!
[quote]
I somewhere read that in the old days they were such an important part of the society that the Nobels sent the siblings to them just to learn ethics.
[/quote]
He is not wrong where
The gharanas where gana banajana took place
were very famous of their adaab and tameez
and the nawab ppl sent their sons to these gharanas to learn the adaab and tameez and also langauge and culture
Its not a fib its an actual fact
I have an aunt
actually you can call her kinda like my nani amma because she is the age of my nani amma
and she often tells us stories of old times when she was young
and during the 60's when during parties there was no such thing as DJs or stuff
these women from the gharanas were invited to entertain the ppl with their songs
and they didnt sing masala jhatka songs
Their songs and dances were usually pieces by good famous poets
and she also tells that the usual stuff they show in the movies like the men are drunk and sitting there drooling over the women
noo it really wasnt like that
there were two sections the women were behind a pardah and the men in the open and everybody sat and enjoyed the shairi and stuff
Prostitution means selling of bodies
it doesnt mean singing and dancing
and prostitute is not who lives in slum such as the heera mandi
you will find a prostitute living in a very high class suburb such as clifton and dealing with her clients
[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited June 26, 2001).]
Tazz; couple of points I need your clarification:
Well burn the place down first, so we don't have a single area famous for Prostitution - Well, one area won't be.... Right, Tazz? But won't many other places crop up with the same reputation. So, the cycle starts again?
Muslim Country - What do you mean by this term?
turn its face on some thing that is considered a major sin. - They can all be arrested and brought before an Islamic court. So, why burn them down without due process of the law?
it should be burned down to the ground with all the workers in it. - That would be committing the greatest sin, that, of killing Muslims....worse then destroying the Kaabah. Do you think they should be tried first in a court of law?
And use the islamic law to treat both the men and women involved in it. - O.K., fine, but after a court decides, right?
If it's the oldest profession does not mean it has to be excepted. - You are correct in saying that it does not have to be excepted just because it's the oldest profession. This crime, in the eyes of Islam, can not be grand-fathered. But when the law of the land changes to theocratic then the exception should be removed and this crime should be delt with with due diligence.
Originally posted by Anchal:
** He is not wrong where **
You are so so right.
**you will find a prostitute living in a very high class suburb such as clifton and dealing with her clients **
Where in Clifton? Just wanna make sure I don’t go by there.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
If you have lived in Pakistan or India then this is not news.
Just that they used their talents to enterain their clients in public setting was enough, understandibly, for them to be looked down upon but the high class people did use to send their kids, especially girls, to them to learn the fine arts of walking, sitting, talking, etc. Things that brought ‘nafaasat’ in style, to name a few.
On the subject of prostitution(though quite away from what is being discussed), here is an interesting news item I read :
http://www.expressindia.com/news/june26/world2.shtml
Man on way to brothel finds wife working
Berlin, June 26: A man seeking gratification in the red-light district in the German town of Aachen was surprised to run into his wife, who was secretly working as a prostitute, police said.
Prostitution is not illegal in Germany but police were required to calm an argument between the couple that broke out after the chance encounter in the small hours of Saturday morning. (Reuters)
And by the way what prostitution has to do with Hira Mandi....may be "Mian SalLi di Haweli" "Hussain Chowk" and Parts of "Iqbal Town" are far better known for prostitution per say.
Being part of old town Lahore it’s as sacred place as any other in the Lahore Shehr.
This 1 1/2 kilometer stretch of road is visited by more ppl than the monuments on the back of this road. From the tomb of the "Nou(9) GazZa(yards)" to the Yadgar chowk, its the life of Lahore at night. As it has been mentioned earlier it had nothing to do with prostitution. Young and old from all over the country come to just pass through the area and have a glimpse at what’s there in the “ChobaRa”, and if you like what you see, you will be eating PaAN from the Khokha across the street. And after a while if you really got tired of being standing there you can always go to Fazal(Phhazal)-Din aka “Bhajjay” day paye, and have dinner while looking at all the Chobara’s. This is what most of the ppl who come here do. So how dose this is bad from going to liberty and window-shopping, and how come it’s degrading….
As far as its being degrading, people should know that Alhamra Art Theater is far degrading....
Hera Mandy is the part of Lahore culture.Lahore is incomplete without this Bazar, there were days when good singing was appreciated by nobels and girls were invited from all over India to sing in this bazar.
You people are right that "Bazar" was famous for his own culture,language and Rakh rakho but those time are long gone.
Singing and dancing is main part of hera mandi but"jahan shera huta hay chountian bhi atey haian"it`s more famous now for his porsituation class they can be find eaisly in the dark corners of back streets.
Nobel People are still living around this bazar which are making there living hood from musical instruments and from Khussey.
When zia took action aganist Hera Mandy in 1989 or90 in one day these ppl spread all over lahore specially in allama iqbal town. Now they are every where one can listen music comming out from houses in defence/model town on any weekend night.
Prostitution! who had balls to stop it?
Array Minnimi bahajjay(phajjay)de paye are latifa paan are still considered as cultural part of lahore.former D.C lasharey had a plan to re-stored Hera Mandy as cultural Heritage but instead he moves to GOwalpandy side(hot spot for D.C too)
No comments from NYA? That's weird.