Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) Love for....

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Salam Brother: Open one topic and know ur self how many people from Ahle Sunnat agree withy you on the above statement.??

I believe u will only find only Wahabi people with you,..

May Allah Guide you,,,,, (because you give respect To YAzeed)Lannat Ullah... who killed Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) Grandson .

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[quote="Das_Reich, post:104, topic:183453"]

yes thats a valid question but the historical events point to everything contrary to this .....sometimes logic cannot be used alone to answer theological questions ....

QUOTE]

Salaam,

I agree that logic with all its limitations can not be used to answer everything. And the only benchmark i have adhered to is Quran and the Sunni Hadith only.

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Nussairee - It is very kind of you to do me favour by posting rest of the sermon no 91 from Nahjul Balagha. Much obliged.

In fact this sermon of Hz. Ali (ra) goes against core belief of 12er Shias.

Read and then re-read the above sermon again and you will notice that Hz. Ali (ra) is (and rightly so) emphasizing that:

1) he alone at that time was the most suitable person to lead the Muslim Ummah out of mayhem/anarchy/civil confusion.

2) And that his leadership will be soundly based on Quran and Sunnah for the betterment of the Ummah importantly for Hereafter and this world too.

3) He was agreeable if the people selected anyone else to be their leader

Your (Shias) claim is that Prophet (saw) had appointed Hz. Ali (ra) as his successor on the direct command of Allah (swt) at Khum Ghadeer.

Isn’t Hz. Ali (ra) duty bound to remind the people of his Divine appointment?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that he is the Imam of the time?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that his Imamate is part of Islamic creed?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that not following his Imamate is Kufr (Disbelief)?

For instance we have the example of Prophet (saw):

**1) **He was never tired to telling the people that he was appointed as the Messenger of Allah (swt) and what his mission was all about. [a few examples given below].

I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. There will be no prophet after me. - (Musnad Ahmad)

I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me. - (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Muatta')

I have been sent by Allah to carry His Divine message to the whole world.

I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no Prophet shall succeed me. (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirimzi, Mishkawt)

*2) **Even when under the pressure of Quraish his dear uncle Abu Talib requested him to tone down his opposition the Quraish, his answer was uncompromising and he said the following: *'O my uncle, by Allah, if they put the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left in return for my giving up this cause, I would not give it up until Allah makes Truth victorious, or I die in His service.

Read the sermon 91 again and you will notice that Hz. Ali (ra) does not even once mention the incidence of Khum Ghadeer or his divine appointment as the successor of the Prophet (saw).

This was the Golden opportunity **he had to remind the people of this **Divine appointment to be the *rightful successor to the Prophet *(saw).
He had no need to practice **Taqiyyah **as all the people were clamouring for him to be the Khaleef.

Do let me know why?

By saying the following “I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief" he is aware that he had no ‘automatic divine right’ to the Khilaafat.

(i'm aware that we are going 'off' the thread)

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Re: Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) Love for....

The Ahadith that name the 12 Imams are all fabricated. If these Ahadith were known then how come Imam Jafar name his son Imam Ismale as Imam and later when he died during his life he then named Imam Musa Kazim as next Imam.

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Ibn Sadique, no brother, this sermon does not go against the believe of the 12ers as u imply. Islam and its message is to be accepeted and not imposed so why should Imam Ali force himself ont he people?. which of the 124,000 prophets did this?
You sound like a learned man and I am sure you know all the arguments and i am sure you have also read the following sermon of Imam Ali in the same book, i.e. Nahjul Balagha:

SERMON 3

Known as the Sermon of ash-Shiqshiqiyyah(1)
Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)(2) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

(Then he quoted al-A`sha's verse).

My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.(3)
It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group(4) and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high. One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth(5) like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husayn were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like the herd of sheep and goats. When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:

That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not to exult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and the end is (best) for the pious ones. (Qur'an, 28:83)
Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings, if people had not come to me and supporters had not exhausted the argument and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one. Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat.

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*Nussairee * It was logical that you will post the above :-)

Let me say from outset that Nahjul Balagha has no authenticity among the non-Shia.

In the above sermon show me where has Hz. Ali ra) has stated the following, which is core of Shia belief:

Isn’t Hz. Ali (ra) duty bound to remind the people of his Divine appointment?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that he is the Imam of the time?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that his Imamate is part of Islamic creed?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that not following his Imamate is Kufr (Disbelief)?

[QUOTE]
Ibn Sadique, no brother, this sermon does not go against the believe of the 12ers as u imply.
[/QUOTE]

Just because you don't accept it does not mean that you are right.

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r u sure? :)

I have done . . .
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Yes! Just as much that you are not a Genie at the other end :D

Now answer the questions raised earlier:

[QUOTE]
Isn’t Hz. Ali (ra) duty bound to remind the people of his Divine appointment?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that he is the Imam of the time?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that his Imamate is part of Islamic creed?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that not following his Imamate is Kufr (Disbelief)?
[/QUOTE]

Read the SERMON 204 from Nahjul Balagha:

After swearing allegiance to Amir al-mu'minin, Talhah and az-Zubayr complained to him that he had not consulted them or sought their assistance in the affairs (of state).

Amir al-mu'minin replied:

*Both of you frown over a small matter and leave aside big ones. Can you tell me of anything wherein you have a right of which I have deprived you or a share which was due to you and which I have held away from you, or any Muslim who has laid any claim before me and I have been unable to decide it or been ignorant of it, or committed a mistake about it?

By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it. When the caliphate came to me, I kept the Book of Allah in my view and all that Allah had put therein for us, and all that according to which He has commanded us to take decisions; and I followed it, and also acted on whatever the Prophet - may Allah bless him and his descendants - had laid down as his sunnah. In this matter I did not need your advice or the advice of anyone else, nor has there been any order of which I was ignorant so that I ought to have consulted you or my Muslim brethren. If it were so I would not have turned away from you or from others.

As regards your reference to the question of equality (in distribution of shares from the Muslim common fund), this is a matter in which I have not taken a decision by my own opinion, nor have I done it by my caprice. But I found, and you too (must have) found, that whatever the Prophet - may Allah bless him and his descendants - brought had been finalised. Therefore, I felt no need to turn towards you about a share which had been determined by Allah and in which His verdict has been passed. By Allah, in this matter, therefore, you two or anyone else can have no favour from me. May Allah keep our hearts and your hearts in righteousness, and may He grant us and you endurance.

Then Amir al-mu'minin added: May Allah have mercy on the person who, when he sees the truth, supports it, when he sees the wrong, rejects it, and who helps the truth against him who is on the wrong. *

Notice the highlighted part (colour red) - Hz. Ali (ra) does not mention or refer to 'Divine Appointment to the Imamate'.

:~D ~ Bud Tameez, Jahil, Gunwar :~D
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Lemme get this straight first; Is Nahjul Balagha a Shia book with "no authenticity among the non-shia" as stated by you in the last post?

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Allow me to repeat myself:

Now answer the questions raised earlier:

[QUOTE]

Isn’t Hz. Ali (ra) duty bound to remind the people of his Divine appointment?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that he is the Imam of the time?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that his Imamate is part of Islamic creed?
Isn’t he duty bound to remind the people that not following his Imamate is Kufr (Disbelief)?
[/QUOTE]

"By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it."

Why would he say this if he was appointed 'Divinely'?

We have hijacked the thread!!

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[quote="Ibn_Sadique, post:19, topic:184037"]

Allow me to repeat myself:

Now answer the questions raised earlier:

"By Allah, I had no liking for the caliphate nor any interest in government, but you yourselves invited me to it and prepared me for it."

QUOTE]

who wud want to sit on the same seat of khilafat after the likes of the first 3?
And here we r talking about the Lion of God Imam Ali. His one strike of sword is worth more then the worship of the entire jinn or insaan until the youmul qayamat.

And i am not going to bother to answer the same set of questions over and over bacause they probably have already been answered hundereds of time only here on the GupShup!

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OK????!!!! Have a good day. Mind the step as you leave, you may trip over :D

Cafe's Auction ~ninja hatori~
Cafe's Auction ~ninja hatori~
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Love u tooo :)