Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) Love for....

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[quote]

Salaam once again.

.

Book: Yanabi'ul Mawaddah by al-Qunduzi Al-Hanafi
Page: 494

Holy prophet (saww.) said: 'o Jabir, verily my legatees and the leaders of the muslims after me are firstly ali followed by hassan, hussein, ali-ibn-hussein, muhammad-ibn-ali famous as 'baqi'. very soon you shall meet him and when you do so, send my greetings to him. after him shall come jafer-ibn-muhammad, musa-ibn-jafar, ali-ibn-musa, muhammad-ibn-ali, ali-ibn-muhammad, hassan-ibn-ali and the 'qaem' successively. his name shall be the same as my name and his agnomen too shall be the same as mine. he is the son of hassan-ibn-ali and the one through whom god shall relieve the east and west. he shall remain hidden from his friends such that they will not remain steadfast in his imamate except those whom god has tested their hearts through faith.

[/quote]

thanks ...is the narrater "jabir " actually jabir b abdullah ansari ?

[quote]

2- As for answer to your last post, i will quote a short incident from the life of Imam Ali Reza (as):

Mamoun offered the Imam his throne saying "O Ibne Rasool Allah, i wish to present you the throne and the khilafat". Imam replied "Did you ever take it from us?"

Hence as far as Shias are concerned, they all ruled. We believe that the right of Imamat belongs to the imams by the command of the Allah Almighty and Rasool Allah (saww) and we do not make distinction as to who had the worldly 'rule' and who didn't.
[/quote]

[/quote]

that doesnt make sense since in times of Ali /Hasan/Hussain the recurrent theme is that people HAVE usurped their right to leadership ...and they were
willing to fight for it

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that doesnt make sense since in times of Ali /Hasan/Hussain the recurrent theme is that people HAVE usurped their right to leadership ...and they were
willing to fight for it
[/QUOTE]

Salaam once again,

1-Yes, Jabir Bin Abdullah Ansari.

2-Imam Ali (as), Imam Hasan (as), Imam Hussain (as) and even our Prophet (saww) never ever fought for their leadership.

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that doesnt make sense since in times of Ali /Hasan/Hussain the recurrent theme is that people HAVE usurped their right to leadership ...and they were
willing to fight for it
[/quote]

Thats why we are saying the people who fought for leadership was those who are shonw in RED TEXT.

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If prophit says that Yazeed is also one of the Imam of Muslim UMMAR. who will lead us to Jannat... Then I feel pity on you and your sect, Mr DAS DEICH..

MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU..

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Re: Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) Love for....

^ whoever said anything about "leading to Jannah"?

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Salaam healthymind, i think one should refrain from judging others by their group or sect. Your Emaan and Aamaal will be the main determining factors and not your sect! this is also the teaching of Rasool Allah (saww) and his Ahlul Bayt (as). Enemy or friend, they treated them alike.

Have a look at this ayat from the Quran Majeed:

Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in ALLAH and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon then nor shall they grieve. (Al Baqarah:62)

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Dear readers, Prophhet Mohammad (pbuh) said that there will be 12 Imams after me and every nation will be identified by there leading Imam,, Those imam will be from Quraish (my family)....

According to Das. Ri... if Yazeed is also from that Imams,, who will lead us at the day of judgement,, THen i must Quit,, from Further discussion...

MAY ALLAH GUIDE US

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Re: Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) Love for....

ramesha i am not able to find this book ....where can it be found ?

also any critique of this hadith u have ? do the 12ers have a similar hadith ?

Tapal Chai Commercial (Mahira Khan)
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Ameen

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Salaam healthy mind,

You are correct that our respective Imams will lead us on the day of judgment. Allah (swt) says in Quran, sura Bani Israil, verse 71:

(Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam; then whoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their book; and they shall not be dealt with a whit unjustly.

Allah (swt) says in Sura Yunus, verse 35:

Is then He who guides to the truth more worthy to be followed, or he who cannot find the right path unless he is guided? What ails you? How (ill) you judge?

Sura Mulk, verse 22:

Is he who walks grovelling upon his face more rightly guided or he who walks uprightly on the right path?

Imams of the Ahl ul Bayt are the fountain-head of guidance, mercy and wisdom. Some people however prefer to run after those who themselves were in need of guidance.

India’s Military Adventure against China
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Salaam,

I was shown this book (Book: Yanabi'ul Mawaddah by al-Qunduzi Al-Hanafi) by an Iraqi gentlemen. I am guessing the book/author was from Egypt.

Quran o Hadith are full of information on the topic of Imamat. One must try to study the topic with an open heart and mind and ask Allah (swt) for guidance.

Fundamental question to ask yourself: A leader like Rasool Allah (saww), seal of the prophets; could he leave the world without specifying or detailing a clear model of leadership?

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Dear readers any one who belive that shia view of 12 Imams which are in my first post , are not the correct one,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, then please post your 12 imams who have knowledge and wisdom like Ahle Byte,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Where das Ric,. belive yazeed is also one of them,,,,,,,,

please come with attenthic sources.

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Dear brother it was not possible to lead the Umma without knowledgeable and brave personality,,, therefore please refer to the following Hadith about the fact and right Guided Imam:

The Prophet(SAW) thence declared "'Man Kuntu Mowlahu fa haza Aliyun Mowlahu' - 'He of whomever I am the Master-Lord (Mowla), Ali is his Master-Lord (Mowla)
DO u believe that Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) left this world without declaring right person to lead Muslim,,??

He did but after his death,, lover of chair changed and even they through Imam ALi wife(Jigar-Mohammad)pbuh out of her house and they put Fatima(as) house on fire,,,here are many more slanders,, if any one dare to listen,, from ur own books,,

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healtymind

You have erroneously translated the word Mawlah to mean Lord/Leader which is completely wrong.

Imam Ibn Al-Atheer says that the word (mawlah) in the Arabic language could only mean:

Rabb = Lord

Maalik = owner

Mun`im = benefactor/Advisor

Mu'tiq = liberator

Naseer = helper

Muheb = lover

Haleef = ally

Aabd = slave (for example: Zaid ibn haretha was the mawlah of the Prophet (saw))

Sihr = brother-in-law

Ibn al `am = Son of the Uncle (Cousin)

In no sense the word Mawlah can be translated as leader!

So from the above the best meanings which fit in well for “Mawlah” are = *benefactor/Advisor, liberator, helper and ally *

This is exactly what Hz. Ali (ra) had in mind when he said the following:

"Leave me and seek some one else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you I would lead you as I know and would not care about whatever one may say or abuse. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief." - Nahjul Balagha Sermon 91 - [When people decided to swear allegiance at Amir al-mu'minin's hand after the murder of `Uthman]

The above statement is very important:

1) Hz. Ali (ra) did not see fit to remind the people that the Prophet (saw) had chosen him as the **Imam/Emir/Leader/Lord **over the Muslims at Khum Ghadeer as it would have been the best to ‘promote’ his claim as the leader of the Muslims.

2) He said that: “It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs” He showed no objection to any other to be elected as an Emir/Leader/Lord for the Muslims.

3) Importantly he also stated: “. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief/Lord” I am better MAWLAH (Counsellor benefactor/Advisor, liberator, helper and ally) than as Chief/LEADER).

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[quote=“Ibn_Sadique, post:9, topic:183495”]

healtymind

You have erroneously translated the word Mawlah to mean Lord/Leader which is completely wrong.

Imam Ibn Al-Atheer says that the word (mawlah) in the Arabic language could only mean:

Rabb = Lord

Maalik = owner

Mun`im = benefactor/Advisor

Mu’tiq = liberator

Naseer = helper

Muheb = lover

Haleef = ally

Aabd = slave (for example: Zaid ibn haretha was the mawlah of the Prophet (saw))

Sihr = brother-in-law

Ibn al `am = Son of the Uncle (Cousin)

In no sense the word Mawlah can be translated as leader!

So from the above the best meanings which fit in well for “Mawlah” are = **benefactor/Advisor, liberator, helper and ally **

This is exactly what Hz. Ali (ra) had in mind when he said the following:

“Leave me and seek some one else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you I would lead you as I know and would not care about whatever one may say or abuse. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief.” - Nahjul Balagha Sermon 91 - [When people decided to swear allegiance at Amir al-mu’minin’s hand after the murder of `Uthman]

The above statement is very important:

  1. Hz. Ali (ra) did not see fit to remind the people that the Prophet (saw) had chosen him as the **Imam/Emir/Leader/Lord **over the Muslims at Khum Ghadeer as it would have been the best to ‘promote’ his claim as the leader of the Muslims.

  2. He said that: “It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs” He showed no objection to any other to be elected as an Emir/Leader/Lord for the Muslims.

  3. Importantly he also stated: “. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief/Lord” *

Do facts, history, and logic back what you have said above?

For a more accurate commentary on Imam Ali (as) sermon # 91 from Nahjul Balagha i would recommend you to read the following:

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/91.htm

Ghadeer event is quite clear. Rasool Allah (pbuh) stopped in the middle of the desert of Khumm the crowd of more than 120,000 consisted of best of the islamic nation including all the great sahabas. This declaration carried a lot of meaning.

Imam Ali’s appointment however is clear if you read and analyse events throughout the life of Rasool Allah (saww) an Imam Ali (as). I did not find anybodyelse as close to Rasool Allah (saww) as Imam Ali (as).

Verse 3 of Sura Imran calls Imam Ali “nafse Rasool Allah (saww)” [Arabic: وَأَنفُسَنَا وأَنفُسَكُمْ ]

But whoever disputes with you in this matter after what has come to you of knowledge, then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.

How many meanings of “Nafs” do you have?*

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All that you have done is to forward Shia Slant.

*"If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief." *

Care to tell me how do you understand the above words without putting on any Shia slant to it.

Timepass
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yes thats a valid question but the historical events point to everything contrary to this .....sometimes logic cannot be used alone to answer theological questions ....

simply imamat does not justify the theology of 12er sect, imamat was a concept even with early muslims who might be defined as proto-shias or even proto-sunnis some sunnis believe abu bakr[ra] was appointed by the Prophet [pbuh] others say that he was appointed by consensus of the community, still others tend to harmonize the 2 points by saying that he was appointed and then confirmed by the community]

Later the events of civil war were so traumatic that pious and some devious ones] muslims often tended to justify their stance with divine predestination of their leader this was not a theological point of dispute at that point but merely a way to buttress their arguments. This does not mean that they neccesarily meant to introduce innovations in religion but because their "political " stance had such profound religious implications in that it could only be justified in their eyes if they followed a "rightly guided " leader.
if you read the statements made by leaders of both sides at jamal/siffin it becomes much clear

I suggest u read "God' caliphs " by patricia crone & martin hinds for a discussion on divinity associatted with early ummayyad caliphs starting with uthman
[word of caution though not so valid for you but for sunni readers crone and hinds are extremely pro-ummayyad and hostile to early caliphates esp to ALi but atleast they cannot be accused of anti-ummayyad bias]

secondly we sidetracked, ghadeer even if accept ur interpretation does not prove that the same 12 imams u follow were appointed by the Prophet[saw], as many other contenders from linage of ALi[as] **and **Fatima[as] were seen as crediable successors in their times.Secondly method of succession now accepted by 12ers as appointment also raises more questions than it answers.If everything was so clearcut after Prophet it hardly explains the complicated events that unfolded after Prophet's death.

If you think it was all a Ali vs rest of sahaba [except 3] affair who were scheming to decieve him then I am not surprised as thats how its been projected in later yrs by 12er scholars.It seems that just as the ummayyad kings starting with muawiyah went to one extreme in vilifiying Ali to stifle dissent from his supporters the 12ers went to the other extreme in delibrately excluding the merits of other sahaba entirely from their view of history as that was not compatible with the semi-divine nature of imamate they followed. So much so that spread of islam seems like a one man job from 12er point of view.

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i am very surprised yazid had a lot of knowledge too he was expert on certain matters
you seriously mean u dont accept him as a rightly guided leader ???? very strange

.......you consider urself a muslim ??

mods i think healthymind shud be banned

Post your pic
39

Care to share the full sermon of the Amir Ali (a.s.)?

Let me do the favor for u and post the rest of the sermon no 91 from Nahjul Balagha.

"If you want me for your worldly ends, then I am not ready to serve as your instrument. Leave me and select someone else who may fulfil your ends. You have seen my past life that I am not prepared to follow anything except the Qur'an and sunnah and would not give up this principle for securing power. If you select someone else I would pay regard to the laws of the state and the constitution as a peaceful citizen should do. I have not at any stage tried to disrupt the collective existence of the Muslims by inciting revolt. The same will happen now. Rather, just as keeping the common good in view I have hitherto been giving correct advice, I would not grudge doing the same. If you let me in the same position it would be better for your worldly ends, because in that case I won't have power in my hands so that I could stand in the way of your worldly affairs, and create an impediment against your hearts' wishes. However, if you are determined on swearing allegiance on my hand, bear in mind that if you frown or speak against me I would force you to tread on the path of right, and in the matter of the right I would not care for anyone. If you want to swear allegiance even at this, you can satisfy your wish."

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Yes, please only present the Sunni slant, since that's the only type of propaganda that Sadique will adhere to.