Presidential Reference

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
1

Text of reference against CJ
**BEFORE THE SUPREME JUDICIAL COUNCIL, PAKISTAN

ISLAMABAD**

Reference by the President, Islamic Republic of Pakistan under Article 209 of the Constitution

Respectfully sheweth:

The facts and circumstances necessitating this Reference by the president of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (“Pakistan”) under Article 209 of the Constitution, briefly stated, are as under:

I. The Prime Minister of Pakistan on receipt of information, from several sources, with respect to the conduct of Mr. Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, the Chief Justice of Pakistan (hereinafter referred to as, “the learned judge”) was pleased to advise the President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to “direct” the Supreme Judicial Council of Pakistan, in exercise of its powers under Article 209 of the Constitution, to inquire into the matter and report to the President whether the learned judge has been guilty of misconduct and further, whether he should be removed from office?

II. The advice of the Prime Minister was, inter alia, based on the following:

Arsalan Iftikhar

  1. Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar is one of the sons of the learned judge. As narrated in paragraphs 2 to 25, the learned judge committed misconduct by employing his position to gain undue advantage for Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar. To secure this end he committed and was responsible for the commission of a number of unlawful acts. That all the acts narrated in paragraphs 2 to 25 were committed as a result of his influence and on account of the demands made by him and the pressure exerted by him. He unlawfully used his position as a judge and Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Pakistan influence, harass and intimidate all concerned and compelled them to act in an unlawful manner. Such conduct is unbecoming a judge and is particularly reprehensible in the case of the Chief Justice of Pakistan.

  2. Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar sought admission to Bolan Medical College in the year 1996. Having secured 639 marks with an overall “C” grade in his Intermediate Examinations he could not be admitted on merit. The threshold being 750 marks. The Chief Minister of Balochistan was approached who nominated him, “for admission in 1st year MBBS class in Bolan Medical College, Quetta, against leftover foreign vacant seats/special seats”.

  3. On 22 June 2005 Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar was appointed as Medical Officer/Demonstrator in the Institute of Public Health, Quetta.

  4. On 18 July 2005, a few days after Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar was so appointed, the Chief Minister of Balochistan passed the following order:

“Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar, Medical Officer, presently posted as Demonstrator, Institute of Public Health Quetta be transferred and posted as Section Officer (Technical) in Health department with immediate effect in the interest of public service. Please issue notification.” [Emphasis supplied]

The Chief Secretary, Balochistan, to whom these orders were addressed, directed these to the Health Department on that very day (18 July 2005).

  1. The Health Department on 10 August 2005 referred the case to the Services and General Administration Department (“S&GAD”) as the authority "for posting/transfer of Secretariat staff is S&GAD Department.

  2. On 11 August 2005, in a Summary for the Chief Minister, the S&GAD pointed out that “no … post in Technical quota is available against which Dr. Arsalan could be considered for posting as Section Officer”. It was, however, pointed out that 07 posts of Section Officers against the “quota of initial recruitment are vacant”, the case for placing the requisition of these posts with the Balochistan Public Service Commission was being processed separately. It was “proposed that Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar be considered for posting as Section Officer against one of the vacant post as a temporary arrangement”.

  3. On 15 August 2005 a notification was issued to the effect that Dr Arsalan Iftikhar Demonstrator in Institute of Public Health, Quetta, was “transferred and posted as Section Officer (Dev) in Health Department, against existing vacancy with immediate effect until further orders.”

[Emphasis supplied]. It may be stated that as was pointed out in the Summary to the Chief Minister, there was no existing vacancy. The 07 vacancies had to be filled by initial recruitment through the Balochistan Public Service Commission. What was proposed was that at best Dr Arsalan Iftikhar be temporarily accommodated against one of these vacancies, till it was filled by a suitable candidate by the Balochistan Public Service Commission.

  1. Nine days before the notification of 15 August 2005 was issued, the Ministry of Interior, Government of Pakistan, addressed a letter on 6 August 2005 to the Chief Secretary, Government of Balochistan:

The services of Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar, BS-17 officer of the Health Department, Government of Balochistan are required to be utilized in FIA in public interest [Emphasis supplied]

  1. It would be highly appreciated if you could place the service of Dr Arsalan Iftikhar at the disposal of the Ministry of Interior for posting in FIA.

On 13 August 2005, two days prior to the notification of 15 August 2005, the S&GAD, Government of Balochistan conveyed to the Ministry of Interior, Government of Pakistan, its "no objection for placing the services of Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar (Health/B-17) at the disposal of Ministry of Interior for posting in FIA. While this letter was either in the mail or had not reached the “right” hands, the Ministry of Interior sent a reminder on 16 August 2005.

  1. On 5 September 2005 a notification was issued by the Ministry of Interior, Government of Pakistan. Dr Arsalan Iftikhar was transferred and his services were placed at the disposal of FIA for posting as Assistant Director (BS-17) in the FIA, on deputation for a period of three years, in his own pay and scale, with immediate effect and until further order.

  2. On 9 September 2005, the Secretary S&GAD brought the matter to the attention of the Chief Secretary, Balochistan. On 13 September 2005 the Chief Secretary Balochistan on behalf of S&GAD issued a notification pursuant to the notification of the Government of Pakistan. On 30 September 2005 Dr Arsalan Iftikhar received charge of the office of Assistant Director, FIA at Islamabad. This was notified on 24 October 2005.

  3. Within four months of his appointment as Medical Officer/Demonstrator in the Institute of Public Health, Quetta, Dr Arsalan a BS-17 officer, who had not even completed the mandatory period of his probation, was transferred and posted first as a Section Officer in the Government of Balochistan against a non-existent vacancy and then sent on deputation as Assistant Director, FIA, to the Ministry of Interior, Government of Pakistan, for a period of three years; all in the public interest. And this for a person who had appeared thrice in the CSS competitive examinations and failed each time.

  4. Under Rule 8 of the Health Department, Government of Balochistan, Service Rules 1984, a person appointed to the service against a substantive vacancy remains on probation for a period of two years if appointed by initial recruitment. Dr Arsalan, having been so appointed, on 22 June 2005, his period of probation would have been completed on 21 June 2007.

  5. On 22 November 2005 the S&GAD, Government of Balochistan moved a summary to the Chief Minister, Balochistan proposing confirmation in services of Dr Arsalan Iftikhar “with immediate effect against the substantive post of Medical Officer in the Provincial Health Department by relaxing Rule 8 of the Balochistan Health Department (Basic Pay Scale 16 and above) Service Rules 1984 for completion of probation period of 2 years.” On 5 December 2005 the S&GAD, Government of Balochistan issued a notification whereby the services of Dr Arsalan Iftikhar were confirmed.

  6. On 22 March 2006 in continuation of its notification of 5 September 2005, the Ministry of Interior issued yet another notification, Barely within 5 months of having assumed the charge of Assistant Director FIA in BS-17:

Dr Arslan Iftikhar (BS-17) Health Department, Government of Balochistan Quetta is transferred and his services are placed at the disposal of Director General Federal Investigation Agency for posting as Deputy Director (BS-18) in FIA on deputation basis for a period of three years…(Emphasise supplied)

On 7 April 2006 it was notified that he had assumed charge of the office of Dy Director (BS-18) FIA on 22 March 2006. On 9 May 2006 by a letter issued by the Office of the Director General Federal Investigation Agency it was clarified as follow:

Now he has been upgraded as Deputy Director in BPS-18 with retrospective effect, i.e. from the date of initial joining as per notification dated 22-03-2006.

On 9 May 2006 the Ministry of Interior issued yet another notification in partial modification of its notification of 22 March 2006. It was stated:

Dr Arslan Iftikhar has assumed the charge of the post of Deputy Director /BS-18, FIA on 3rd September 2005 with retrospective effect.

  1. This done, a campaign was launched to induct Dr Arsalan Ifitkhar in the Police Service of Pakistan. As BS-17 officer Dr. Arslan Ifitkhar could have joined the Police Service only through the competitive services examination conducted by the Federal Public services commission but being in BS-18 made induction possible and the FPSC route could be avoided. As a first step he was to be sent to the Police Academy for training with PSP officers all of whom had been selected by the Federal Public Services Commission. The training was exclusive to PSP officers.

  2. On 19 May 2006, the Ministry of Interior addressed a letter to Commandant, National Police Academy, Islamabad, stating that Dr. Arshaln Iftikhar, Deputy Director, FIA, was attached with the National Police Academy for training with CTP batch. The Commandant was requested to attach the said officer for field training along with under training ASPs to cover catch aspect of the required training.

  3. On 24 May 2006, the Ministry of Interior again issued a letter to the Commandant, National Police Academy, Islamabad, stating that after the completion of the specialized training programme at the National Police Academy, the services of Dr Arslan Iftikhar be placed at the disposal of Punjab Police for further posting at Lahore for his District Attachment Training.

  4. Pursuant to the letter of 24 May 2006, the National Police Academy, Islamabad, on 27 June 2006 relieved Dr Arslan Ifitkhar, “for completion of remaining training programme of 32nd CTP, and directed to report to Elite Police Training School, Bedian Lahore on 02-07-2006 doing six weeks Orientation Course.” After completion of the course he was to “report to CPO, Punjab, Lahore for Phase III part of training which is six months Field Attachment”.

  5. In the meantime, the Prime Minister’s Secretariat was approached for the permanent induction of Dr Arsalan Iftikhar in the Police Service of Pakistan in BS-18. On 16 May 2006 the Prime Minister’s Secretariat sought the views of the Establishment Division in that regard.

  6. The UO Note of the Prime Minister’s Secretariat was also circulated to FIA. On 3 June 2006 the Office of the Director General, FIA, stated that, “neither FIA requisitioned his services, nor was involved at any stage for his deputation or district attachment etc.” FIA, therefore, expressed its inability to offer any views/recommendations on the UO Note.

  7. On 23 May 2006 the Establishment Division noted that as per the PSP (Composition, Cadre and Seniority) Rules, 1985, “the request of the officer for induction in PSP in BS-18 is not feasible.” In a separate note the Establishment Division observed that Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar could not be inducted in the Police Service of Pakistan without an amendment in the PSP (Composition, Cadre and Seniority) Rules, 1985. Such an amendment could only be made with the approval of the President.

  8. On 31 May 2006 the Secretary, Establishment, was called by the learned judge for a meeting at his residence. The meeting took place at 2100 hours. The observations of the Establishment Division were also communicated to him. The learned judge appreciated the aforementioned reservations but the meeting ended with the learned judge insisting on:

(a) the induction of Dr Arslan Iftikhar in FIA preferably in BS-18;

b) his subsequent deputation to the Punjab government without their specifically mentioning the post against which he will be posted; and

c) simultaneous initiation of a proposal to amend the rules to provide for induction of FIA officers in the Police Service of

Pakistan, and sought his son’s permanent induction in (BS-18) in the Police Service of Pakistan.

The Secretary, Establishment, communicated these demands to the Principal Secretary to the prime Minister, around midnight, the same evening. Soon thereafter the Secretary Establishment received a call from the learned judge saying that he had found a number of precedents of induction into various groups. On 1 June 2006 the papers were received from the learned judge. Later, the learned judge called the Secretary Establishment on the Green Line to enquire if the papers sent by him had been examined. The Secretary Establishment stated that it would take some time. The learned judge stated that orders of the Prime Minister be obtained by referring to these precedents. He was told that a written reference would be made to the Prime Minister’s Secretariat giving the precedents as well as the legal position. The learned judge responded that a written reference would “jeopardize the case and that this was part of a package and reference to the rules need not be made.”

  1. The learned judge continued to “insist” that all concerned make the necessary changes and warned of “consequences” if his desires were not met. Due to the relentless pressure and the campaign of intimidation and harassment launched by him, ultimately a summary was prepared and submitted by the Establishment Secretary on 23 June 2006 to the Prime Minister for addition of a new “Rule 7-C” in the Police Service of Pakistan (Composition, Cadre and Seniority) Rules, 1985. The amendment was tailor made for Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar.

  2. Since then the learned judge has almost on a daily basis exerted all kinds of pressure on the Prime Minister’s Secretariat to secure the approval of the summary aforementioned and for the consequent induction of Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar as an officer in the Police Service of Pakistan as a BS-18 officer.

  3. He also used his influence and authority to have Dr. Arsalan Iftikhar nominated to attend the 2nd Training Course in Combating International Terrorism and Organized Crime from 30 October 2006 to 3 November 2006 in Istanbul. He was the only non-PSP officer and the only under training person to attend this course.

  4. The learned judge is entitled to one 1600 CC car, but he has contrary to the norms and rules on the subject secured the use of the following cars for himself at Islamabad:

i) Mercedes Bens 3000cc

ii) IDJ-166 Toyota Corona Model 1993 - 1300cc

iii) ODF 6828 Toyota Corona Model 1993 - 2000cc

iv) CIA-9 Toyota Corolla Model 2000 - 1300cc

v) GP-8695 Toyota Corolla Model 2002 - 1300cc

vi) IDM-7976 Toyota Corolla Model 2003 - 1300cc

vii) IDM-7977 Toyota Corolla Model 2003 - 1300cc

  1. Besides these the learned judge has the use of a fleet of cars at Islamabad, Lahore and Quetta.

  2. On more than one occasion demands have been made to the Chief Minister or Governor of the province which the learned judge is visiting to provide the cars for their own official use to the learned judge during the period of his stay in the province.

Protocol over and above entitlement

  1. The learned judge insists on being provided protocol which has neither been ever sought by or provided to a Chief Justice. Besides an outrider to lead the cavalcade the demand is for a number of police vehicles to follow him. The men have to be from elite units. At times specific demands have been made for an officer not below a particular rank to act as an outrider. Traffic has to be diverted or stopped while the convoy travels from one point in the city to another at high speed. Such actions are completely unprecedented for a Chief Justice.

  2. Demands have been made for senior bureaucrats not below a particular rank to receive him at the airport when he arrives in a provincial capital.

USE OF PLANES AND HELICOPTERS

  1. The learned judge frequently demands the use of the plane or aircraft of a Governor or a Chief Minister to travel from one place to another or for a private visit to offer condolences or to attend a function. The learned judge is well aware that he is not entitled to the use of these aircraft and helicopter but is in the habit of making these demands frequently and secures these by insisting on these.

Para 32 deleted

  1. For some time a BMW car registration No “RAZIA-1” remained in the use of the learned judge and members of his family. The story hit the press and when it refused to die down the car was quietly moved elsewhere.

Judicial Conduct

  1. There are complaints of orders being verbally announced in open court in favour of one party and subsequently a written order at variance from the order announced in court being delivered. Two such cases have acquired particular notoriety. In one of these two cases it is alleged that amounts as large as Rs55 million may have been involved.

Reports

  1. These matters have been subject of general and uncontradicted public comment, press reports, magazine articles, media comments by senior and respected members of the bar and former members of the superior judiciary.

Entitlements

  1. The learned judge used the influence of his position to gain undue advantage by "insisting on an increase and enhancement in his entitlements or in securing the relaxation of the rules in that respect.

III. In the light of, inter alia, the foregoing facts and circumstances, and after a thorough consideration of the matter the Prime Minister of Pakistan advised the President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to refer to the Council, for its report, the question whether the conduct of Mr Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, Chief Justice of Pakistan in the following matters namely:

(a) in using his position, office, influence and authority as a judge of the Supreme Court and Chief Justice of Pakistan to:

(i) secure the appointment of his son Arsalan Iftikhar as a Section Officer in the Health Department, Government of Balochistan;

(ii) to have his son Arsalan Iftikhar sent on deputation by the government of Balochistan to the Ministry of Interior, Government of Pakistan as Assistant Director, FIA in BS-17;

(iii) to have his son Arsalan Iftikhar confirmed in the service of the Health Department, Government of Balochistan, much before the expiry of the mandatory period of probation in violation of the applicable rules;

(iv) to have his son Arsalan Iftikhar upgraded as Dy Director, FIA, in BS-18 with retrospective effect;

(v) to make efforts to have his son Arsalan Iftikhar inducted in the Police Service of Pakistan in violation of the rules and/or to seek an amendment of the applicable rules;

(b) in seeking and securing official vehicles and transport for his use much beyond the sanctioned and permissible limits;

(c) in insisting on protocol to which he was not entitled;

(d) in demanding and securing use of helicopters and planes to the use of which he was not entitled;

(e) in accepting accommodation with a litigant before the Surpeme Court;

(f) in using the BMW car “Razia 1”;

(g) in writing judgements which were contradictory to orders announced verbally in open court;

(h) in insisting on entitlements or having rules relaxed for such entitlements;

constitutes a ground of misconduct on which the learned judge ought to be removed from the office of a judge of the Supreme Court of Pakistan and the Chief Justice of Pakistan.

IV: The President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is of the opinion that the learned judge may have been guilty of misconduct and therefore, is pleased to refer the question aforementioned to the Council for the purpose of conducting an inquiry into the matter and after such inquiry as it may deem fit report to the President its opinion whether the learned judge has committed misconduct and whether he should be removed from the office of a judge of the Supreme Court and the Chief Justice of Pakistan.

V. That the Prime Minister was further pleased to advise the President that besides making the reference to the Council the President may simultaneously, in exercise of his constitutional and inherent powers under the Constitution of Pakistan and all other power enabling him in that behalf, direct that as a reference would be pending against the learned judge before the Council it would be neither in the public interest nor in consonance with the norms of judicial propriety that he continues to perform the functions of his office as a judge of the Supreme Court or as the Chief Justice of Pakistan. This would be in consonance with past practices as well. For these reasons, till such time that the reference has been disposed off by the Council and final orders in the matter have been passed, the most senior of the other judges of the Supreme Court shall act as the Acting Chief Justice. The President has been pleased to pass orders accordingly.

VI. It is requested that this reference may please by taken up as soon as it may be convenient, an inquiry into the matter be commenced and the reference be disposed off as expeditiously as may be possible for the Council.

*General Pervez Musharraf President, Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Through

Mr Justice (Retd) Mansoor Ahmed
Secretary, Ministry of Law, Justice and Parliamentary affairs Islamabad
Date: 9th March 2007
*
http://www.dawn.com/2007/03/21/nat2.htm

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Re: Presidential Reference

What a looser this Dr Arsalan is,growing under the protective "judicial" wings of his "honorable" Dad.

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Re: Presidential Reference

^^^ well that happens with every son/son in law of a plitician, beurocrate and army higher ranks.

so its not an exception but norm in Pakistan. the point is why he is being single out? on that basis many people will be under such category. but amazing stuff how a non CSS person can evade every single hurdle to get his gaols under his papa ! he should have atleast passed the exams and then used his papa's powers to have some legtimacy.

such perks can always be taken away without being suspended. and at the same time it can be overlooked if the person is liked by the PM or president.

if you have closer look at offsrpings of all the elite s in power you will get the answer how a chain continues in Pakistan.

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Re: Presidential Reference

bhai logo..
i can read urdu but this font is killing me.
can someone write a khulasa in english please.

thank you

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Re: Presidential Reference

I think if you read Naeem bukhari's letter you could get a Khulasa of this. The whole reference (if it really is) revolves around Dr. Arsalan. However the CJ must have really gotten on the nerves of someone to get kicked for something like this. His son is no example, you can find more Angutha chaap people in the government and other places than him. There is more than meets the eye obviously.

kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Re: Presidential Reference

For some reason it appears the government put together every little nit picking thing they could find to create a reference against the CJ. And more upsetting is that the lawyer community in the whole country hasn't uttered a peep about the corruption exercised throughout the career path of his son Dr. Arsalan but the uproar is about his sacking. Jub mulk mein insaaf denay walon ka ye aalam hoga tso mulk dobay ga nahi to or kiya hona hia.

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Re: Presidential Reference

Very righly said...Only a brave person can say a thing like this now a days.

kyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Re: Presidential Reference

USresident thank you

my point is that even if there is more than meets the eye, teh CJ put himself in that position.

as i have said, the Feds could not even convict Al Capone of mob ties and racketeeing, but got him on tax evasion. Now he may have cried that there are many tax evaders in the country and all, but hey, you were a target, you had a skeleton in your closet, and it was found, and you went to jail.

same for CJ, whatever the politics of the situation are, whether this is widespread or not etc etc, if he was clean, he would not be caught in this. motives may be dodgy or whatever, but such is life.

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Re: Presidential Reference

Well, the problem is not what CJ did as most here have rightly claimed and many of those in Pakistan know that many dads in high offices, if they have incompetent kids like CJ son Arsalan, if these dads can get away with promoting their pathetic son, they have done that, however wrong.

*Problem is that if any thing is done about this corruption and nepotism, we can see how many corrupts along with mentally corrupts have come out to defend what CJ has done or did. *

I called some mentally corrupts, because many of the defenders of CJ corruption and nepotism are not even in position to do corruption and nepotism the way CJ did, thus have nothing to link CJ action with their own conscience or action, or supporting their corrupt brother.

These mentally corrupts are those that if they had any position in office of influences, would have done corruption and nepotism, same what CJ has done, rather worse. They are different from those that may not be mentally corrupt but get corrupt when they get into office of position and find opportunities of corruption.

**Thus to me, these mentally corrupts are the most pathetic and biggest problem of Pakistan as they are parasites amongst the population that are always waiting to pounce on any opportunity of corruption, love corruption, promote corruption, fight to keep corruption going in Pakistan, support corrupts, vote for corrupts and while they are there in large number, with no moral values, Pakistan would never be able to develop.

** Personally, when I think of Pakistan and see them everywhere, it is really most frustrating, and saddening.

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Re: Presidential Reference

The reason people are mad is because:

(a) this move was not done because of any 'corruption', that is an excuse

(b) when the accusers are doing the same themselves, or even worse, the

accusation rings hollow

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Re: Presidential Reference

sure man, i understand. I am just showing different aspects of this.

I mean obviously I can take this a step further but, why are people mad if the accusers themselves are corrupt. I mean its not like majority of people in pakistan are imaandaar.

so if the argument is that one corrupt person is removing another corrupt person using corruption as a reason while he himself is corrupt... and that is lame. By that token the public should not be upset because they are corrupt themselves.

because if you really think about it and take this whole musharaf, and military and CJ stuff out of your mind for a minute. Is the qaum honest?? no, not at all, I use power, water and phone line stealing as just one example, other dhandlis as another, and the massive issue wiith income taxes as another.

Now I know that some people would come and say well people are in a corrupt system, and they ahve to be corrupt to survive, or be corrupt to advance. I however think its way beyond that, its so built into the national character at this point that even when people leave and are in a democratic society or some country where general corruption is low (forget governmental corruption because that is high everywhere), they still do ultayseedhay kaam.

anyways, this is a tangent. but the point is that we need to hold our leaders responsible, true..but we need to hold ourselves responsible too. when we have all these lawyers and general public talking about corruption, did they look in their own garebaan.

a nation's leaders are representative of the nation itself..yeah u dont have much say when a dictator asserts himself in power, but you still see that elsewhere. I struggle to see a time in our nation's history where people were happy, or where the corruption was not present in everyday life, it has increased decade after decade in general daily life.

in the end, why am i writing all this. I dont know. I am diappointed in musharraf, I am disappointed in all the leaders we have had, and I am disappointed in the nation as a whole.

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Re: Presidential Reference

Agree with most of that. SIGH!

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Re: Presidential Reference

What is wrong is wrong...If all do it,then it doesn't make it any better...They should be questioned too..

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Re: Presidential Reference

Good analogy. What is not really in the air is why did the CJ become a target and the government went looking for those skeletons in his closet. It has to be something very penalizing for the government to move against the CJ of the country using his son as the pitfall. That is what I would like to see, I'm sure there are many opinions out there about it, maybe someone could come up with a good analysis.

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Re: Presidential Reference

You are right. No question about that. Wrong is wrong and all corrupts should get persecuted. Who ever is corrupt or guilty of nepotism should get hanged. But as I wrote in my past post, the mentally corrupts are the biggest problem and hindrance in persecuting corrupts in Pakistan (those in influential office where they can do corruption and do corruption)
.
As long as Pakistanis in general would be mentally corrupt, there is no chance that actual corrupts could get persecuted. If any person in power would ever decide to persecute corrupts, these mentally corrupts would come on road in support of that corrupt.

If by any luck of Pakistan, an honest politician ever comes to power, looking at the support by many Pakistanis of corrupts and corruption in the country, that honest politician could never be able to persecute corrupts, as that politician if persecute corruption, would never be able to win election.

Just imagine, at present only name of CJ is sent for corruption enquiry, he is not even charged for corruption, just alleged, and what is the result? Just knowing that CJ name is sent for enquiry on corruption, these mentally corrupts made him hero. It shows how our mentally corrupts love corruption and corrupt people, that even if a person is alleged of corruption and enquiry starts, these mentally corrupts make him hero.

No wonder that whenever there is democracy in Pakistan, we get only corrupts in power, like Z A Bhutto, Nawaz Shareef and BB Bhutto.

[Well, when I am talking about corruption, I mean corruption that happens in government departments and effects all in the country, as private corruption does not effect all in the country and it is personal matter.

Government employees or representatives are there on job with trust of the people and thus when I am talking about corruption, I am talking about these crooks.

When I mention mentally corrupts, I mean those who are not in position to do corruption but mentally they are corrupt and supports those that can do corruption. Like corrupt politicians and corrupt parties these mentally corrupts vote and support, and corrupt government servants these mentally corrupts tolerate and support .... as these days some mentally corrupt are supporting corrupts in judiciary]

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Re: Presidential Reference

The reference is a crock. President Mush said in a rally that i cant divulge the contents of the reference cuz its sub judice but that the accusations in the reference are far more damning than what the media is reporting. What utter bull ****. If CJ is to be docked for asking favors for his son, I wonder why those people whose signs appear on the documents go scot free. How come not ONE of them has been penalized?

This is all non sense to me. Musharraf has shot himself in the foot.

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Re: Presidential Reference

maybe they will maybe they will not, but, should the CJ be punished or not for using his office to ask favors for his son.

yes or no.

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Re: Presidential Reference

What you mean, it seems that if you were judge, and a case comes to your court of a rapist, you would let him go with comments that many get raped in Pakistan, why punish this one? :) That is funny, don’t you thin so? :)

Well, allegations of CJ corruption came to the President and constitutionally it is only president that can initiate enquiry of CJ because constitutionally he is the appointing authority of CJ, responsible of CJ conduct, and head of state.

As for others (apart of few posts, like Prime Minister, Chief of army, Navy and Air Force, Joint chief of staff, etc), their appointing authority is not President, nor president is directly responsible of their conduct.

If allegation of corruption or misconduct references related to the posts President is responsible comes to President, if President wants to, he should act, that’s all.

References of corruption allegation related to CJ came to President and thus President was constitutionally obliged to do something about that. That is to discuss the allegation with CJ and if not satisfied, send that references for enquiry to SJC, so he did. What is wrong in that?

If SJC decides that allegations are true, they would let President know, and then President taking regard of SJC would act on letting CJ to continue or sack him. Thus, all depends on enquiry by SJC, nothing to do with President after he sent allegations to SJC.

Now to say that President should not have sent allegation to SJC for enquiry, I think is promoting corruption and those that think that way, condone corruption. It is this type of attitude amongst many in Pakistan that is causing corruption to spread and hurting Pakistan progress. They like it or not, these are the people who are real cause of corruption in Pakistan as they love corruption, support corruption and thus are partners of corrupts.

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Re: Presidential Reference

Only if it were that simple but to answer ur question, nope.

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Re: Presidential Reference

Thanx for that simpleton. U r right and so is Mush.

Say aren’t u the guy who said CJ is a criminal for resisting the police? :hmmm: