Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
you may have had point, if you hadnt voted for bush. Unfortunately, you no longer have the moral high ground.
As for Iran, theres no substantial evidence for any of the accusations. We understand you guys are smarting, but this is just downright petty.:halo:
still, let see what other bull you guys can come up with.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
^^ Please note the accusations above are from the Green Party in Austria. Not historically closely allied with neo-cons.
On the other hand, please point to ONE leader of ANY muslim country that has any type of credibility. Indonesia? 1.2 billion people and not a single world class leader? I like Mushy, but he is afterall an unelected dictator. Hmmmm. I guess the new mullah/stooge of Iran really doesn't have a lot of competition.
Please do not complain about the state of the Muslim world when you can't even find the voice to question his election. 1000 disqualified candidates, mostly women and reformists and thats just peachy with you? Claims of outright election fraud from the opposition. Not a peep from guppies. If that had been the US you guys would be screaming bloody murder. Maybe the issue is not double standards, but when will you raise the standards for Muslim leaders.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
U.S.: Photo Not of Iran Chief
By Greg Miller, Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON — U.S. investigators have concluded that Iranian president-elect Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not the glowering Islamic militant seen escorting an American hostage in a 1979 photograph that was widely publicized this week, officials said Friday.
The conclusion casts doubt on what had been considered a key piece of evidence indicating that Iran’s new president was among the leaders of the group of students who seized control of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and went on to hold dozens of Americans hostage for 444 days.
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A U.S. official familiar with the investigation of Ahmadinejad’s role said that analysts had found “serious discrepancies” between the figure in the 1979 photo and other images of the Iranian president-elect. The discrepancies included differences in facial structure and features, the official said.
If there is a case to be made that Ahmadinejad was among the hostage takers in 1979, the official said, “it doesn’t look as if it will be done on the basis of those photographs.”
The official stressed that the investigation was continuing and that it was “still an open question” whether Ahmadinejad was involved in the hostage crisis. Analysis of the photos was just one of many avenues in what has become a multi-agency inquiry, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Friday that those involved in the inquiry were “searching through all the information at their disposal,” and planned to interview former hostages. McCormack also said that the intelligence community was involved in the inquiry.
He did not elaborate, but other officials said the CIA was among the agencies playing a leading role.
The Bush administration launched the investigation this week after several former hostages said they recognized Ahmadinejad as one of their captors.
Those claims appeared to be bolstered by the 1979 photo, which was in the archives of Associated Press. It depicts two militants, one of whom bears a striking resemblance to Ahmadinejad, on either side of a blindfolded American.
The picture has been widely circulated on the Internet and was carried on the front pages of major newspapers across the country, including Friday’s editions of The Times.
William J. Daugherty, a former CIA officer who was one of the hostages, said Friday that he was not positive that Ahmadinejad was the bearded man shown in the 1979 photo, but said he remained convinced that Ahmadinejad was among the hostage takers.
Daugherty, who lives in Savannah, Ga., said he and other former hostages “did not make our identification based on that AP photo from 1979. We made it looking at the guy today.”
When the Associated Press contacted him this week to show him the 1979 photo, Daugherty said that his initial reaction was that Ahmadinejad and the militant in the picture “could be the same guy.”
After closer examination, he said, “I see some differences,” though he noted that comparing the two was difficult because the smiling politician exhibits a different demeanor from the young militant in the picture, who he said was “deliberately trying to look fierce and menacing.”
Daugherty said that the blindfolded American in the photo was Jerry J. Miele, who was a communications officer at the embassy. The Iranian who resembles Ahmadinejad has not been positively identified.
The allegations about Ahmadinejad have deepened long-standing tensions between the United States and the Islamic Republic, which have not had diplomatic relations in more than a quarter-century. President Bush has declared Iran part of an “axis of evil,” and administration officials have refused to rule out military intervention to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
Ahmadinejad, the former mayor of Tehran, is an Islamic hard-liner whose recent victory over better-known presidential candidates defied predictions. Officials close to Ahmadinejad, as well as some Iranians who are known to have helped orchestrate the seizure of the American Embassy in 1979, have said in recent days that Ahmadinejad was not actively involved.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Thanks sheraz. See, you just cant believe these hostages.
His accusers should be hanged, drawn an quartered for such prudish behaviour. :halo:
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
^ Based on that article? Your criteria for assigning guilt/innocence is incircumspect to say the least.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Why should we refrain from commenting on Bush’s transgressions? At worst, Mr. Ahmadinejad is guilty of holding captors. Mr. Bush on the other hand…
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Please point to any world leader that does not fall in line with your ideological world view that is “credible”. So long as the Muslim people are content, the leadership is creadible. The onus is on them to change it.
Raise what standard? I suggest you write a letter to your President. Turkey and Algeria routinely vette candidates, with the direct support of Western leaders. One cannot support this procedure for one state, and oppose it for another. The bottom line is, even in America, if at any time there was a threat by a political movement to scrap the constitution and “reset” the systerm of governance, the party would most likely be banned.
The Iranian regime (right or wrong), unlike America, faces serious challenges to it’s authority. It’s simply doing what any other government would do in it’s position. Happily, no Western government I can think of is in the same position. So if you are going to gloat, that is what you should gloat over…not the fact that France, or America, or the UK do not vette candidiates.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
No. Based on the investigation, seminole.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Didn't the US vote in a man that nuked 2 cities?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
very good points pocoico..
infact I can cite american precendence from recent history where political figures were vetted/removed based on the political beliefs they held. Anyone remember a Communist Party in America, they used to be thriving quite well until Joseph McCarthy came along. On the pretext on it being a matter of national security..
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
^ but thats different. McCarthy was american an Khamenie is iranian. can't u see the difference? it so bloomin obvious.
not.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Nice try but no cookie. If Bush “vetted” only Republicans you guys would be screaming bloody murder. That is essentially what is being done. Any dissent or opposing view is excluded in Iran. When people see no one they want to vote for they will turn to other means. The youth of Iran is largely at the head of the dissent. We all know what happens when alienated youth sees no path for change. History is full of examples.
Not a single Guppy here has commented on allegations of fraudulent elections in Iran. Yet everbody was such a frikken’ expert when it came to the US election. How ironic.
“Like the Dead in Their Coffins”
Torture, Detention, and the Crushing of Dissent in Iran
If there had been no press, no investigations by the Parliament, no Article 90 Commission, I think that I would still be in prison or I would be dead. They made sure that I was not forgotten…If I had spoken out and no one knew my name from the newspapers, I would be dead. I am sure of this. Now, there are those students in prison, and no one knows their names, and they are rotting in a corner somewhere thinking that no one in the world knows where they are. And now, how will we know?
—Hossein T., a student activist and former prisoner.
No one knows how many people are held in Iran’s prisons and secret detention centers for the peaceful expression of their views. Over the past four years, as the window of free expression has closed in Iran, abuse and torture of dissidents have increased in Evin Prison’s solitary cells and secret detention centers.
In the years following the election of President Mohammad Khatami in 1997, on a platform of supporting rule of law and civil society, independent newspapers and journals flourished in Iran. In 2000, a large class of more vocal and reform minded representatives entered a revitalized parliament, promising to introduce new laws that would challenge the status quo. Intellectuals, journalists, and writers debated publicly some of the most critical issues facing Iranian society. In response, the judiciary and the extra-legal security and intelligence agencies of the Iranian state have sought to destroy these voices.
Since then Iran’s independent newspapers have been almost completely destroyed, the result of a campaign launched by the Office of the Leader and the judicial authority in April 2000 to silence growing dissent. Said Mortazavi, then the judge of Public Court Branch 1410, was the leading force behind the crackdown in its early years, directed mainly at newspapers and journals which had become critical voices for change. He was subsequently appointed to the powerful position of Tehran Chief Prosecutor, a post he holds today.
This report demonstrates a nexus between the press closures that began in 2000, the systematic arrests of journalists, writers and intellectuals in the following years, and the treatment of political prisoners. With the newspapers closed, treatment of detainees worsened considerably in Evin prison and in detention centers operated clandestinely by the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps and the judiciary. Members of parliament and defense attorneys who have spoken out against the crackdown have themselves been summoned to court, and some jailed. Few platforms outside of the Internet remain available to expose the reality of conditions for Iran’s political prisoners in detention centers. The closure of the newspapers has secured an environment of impunity for judges and security forces who routinely violate international human rights law and Iran’s criminal and penal codes.
The Iranian authorities have managed, in the span of four years, to virtually silence the political opposition within the country through the systematic use of indefinite solitary confinement of political prisoners, physical torture of student activists, and denial of basic due process rights to all those detained for the expression of dissenting views. Paradoxically, criticism of government policies has increased over the past several years on the streets, in shopping lines, in taxis, within homes. But those engaged in criticism on the record—newspapers, websites, public statements of members of parliament, and legally organized protests—have been silenced.
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/torture/iran/
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
i answered but you chose to ignore. not my problem.
have a question, r u saying there were no reformist candidate present in the elections?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
No, the reformist candidate and his entire organization were neutered by mullahs who view the country as their totalitarian plaything. Read the following again:
The Iranian authorities have managed, in the span of four years, to virtually silence the political opposition within the country through the systematic use of indefinite solitary confinement of political prisoners, physical torture of student activists, and denial of basic due process rights to all those detained for the expression of dissenting views.
Couple that with the closing of all independent news sources and you have a Soviet style totalitarian regime. Given that Iran and the Taliban are the only two available examples of “Islamic” rule, frankly I am not impressed.
On the other hand, if you guys are content letting the Mullahs run your lives, more power to you. Just try to apply the same standards to the west. In Iran you have the jailing torturing and solitary confinement of Students, Dissidents, Newspaper Editors, Attornies of Dissidents and Political Prisoners. In Iran, many Guppies would be in prison. But you protest Guantanamo instead, where jihadis straight off the battlefield are held in conditions that are pristine compared to Iranian prisons.
So go to a good concert, comfort yourself that Live 8 makes you a liberal in good standing. Students who are actually DOING something are rotting in prisons in Iran. Have a good day.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
is that where the US got the idea for Guantanamo?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Lmao!!! Pwned!!! :d
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Prison Camps during a time of war have been around for hundreds of years. From a purely historical perspective Guantanamo may be the nicest prison camp ever. That is the truth.
The problem with demonizing Guantanamo is that it is so blown out of proportion that Muslims get tunnel vision. It sucks all of the oxygen out of the room. The way you will know this is true, is answering one simple question. "Would I rather go to Guantanamo, or any Iranian prison?". The answer is that every single Iranian prison holding dissidents is exponentially more horrible, both to the prisoner, and to the fabric of Iran. But then again, the expectations of the Muslim world are so low for their own countries that it is simply more satisfying to try to bring the US down a notch. The answer is not to bring down the US a notch, but to bring up Muslim nations.
Of course the proof of all this is this thread. Guppies have no interest in Iran. Not when they have an opportunity to rant about the US. It is simply more fashionable and fun to take a swipe at the US.
So who is more of a Muslim Hero, the 25 year old Iranian dissident sitting in a jail, or the 25 year old Guppy living in London who thinks that Live 8 will change the world and was a damn fine party too!?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
homer, peleease… it’s like saying driving nails through your hands is proven to be less fatal than if we inject you daily with cancerous cells… so you shouldn’t complain if we get the hammer out once in a while because things could be much worse
so the only way to prove the superiority of US treatment is to compare it with Iran… boy, the US sure has progressed since the days of negro lynchings, segregation and murdering of the native plains indians
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
I’m Canadian, so no I wouldn’t. If the US supreme court (read: Guardian council) vetted the candidates for those who were sworn to overturn the US constitution, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least bit.
It depends on how well organized and relevant the oposition is. There are plenty of dissenting views, but where I would fault the Clerics is to the extent they are intolerant of the views. But that’s another story…again, I could easily see a country like France putting a clamp down on a party with even a tinge of religious affiliation. Turkey in fact does this…
It’s possible, but then Rafsanjani is hardly a reformist so one would question the need. In fact, Rafsanjani is more well established and powerful than the current President.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Again, given an equal threat the US govt would not behave much differently. The example of McCarthy is most illustrative of this fact.
Two different problems. Magicians call what you are trying to do “indirection”. It doesn’t work in a debate.
Anyhow, from the nice media walk-arounds I’m sure it seems that way. The prisoners do complain of abuse, but not excessive one Iranian style, granted. But then, Egypt, Pakistani etc. prisons are not much better, and the Americans often use them. Then there is Diego Garcia…who knows what is going on there.
As for the alleged Jihadis…there have been far too many prisoners released to substantiate the claim that the inmates are all jihadis straight off the battlefield. Many were simply farmers in the wrong place at the wrong time.