Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Ma,
Sure poses a dilemma for Europe as to whether to deal with a hostage taker. They would certainly have to appear as tough on Iran. Now if the guy is forced to admit his past, then he publicly has been caught in a lie in his first week.
It may be that the US knew his past, and figured he was more likely to be elected if we disclosed it. Plenty of Iranians know too. Not a good way to start your first week in office.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
chill pd. you'll get the info, alrite? now get back to the topic.
OG: Europe's got no choice on who it deals with. the hostage thing wasn't so big in europe, it was mainly US that was effected. i dont think it will make that much of a difference. You'd think nukes deals wud be more important to EU than what happened 25 yrs ago.
i have a question OG; y'all trying so hard to find out if he's lying, whether he is, that remains to be seen. on the other hand, your president (i.e bush), is world renowned for lying. it didnt stop him getting re-elected did it, why shud anyone think it wud or shud effect 'dinejad?
besides isnt that what you call pot calling kettle black?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Absolutely, and this gives the EU a nice big incentive not to back down in their demands to Iran, and (if/when it comes down to it) vote for resolutions when they’re referred to the Security Council. Like I said, it will get very interesting very soon.
Welcome to the world stage mr 'dinejad, don’t mind the spotlight.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
At least they don’t tie em upto fences and beat em to death as they do in america…worst yet they don’t get dragged behind a pick up trucks either…
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
so lying is an embarrasment for Iran but not for US? 
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Would that be the same thing that “iraq is connected to 9/11” and repeat it ten thousands times and it will become the truth…right? So why do you get your panties in a bunch about how Iraq is ruled? What did they do to you? Oh yes the hostage crisis…what about all the oil money Shah sahib was pocketing and the peopel just got fed up and told him to take his dictator arse somewhere else? or are you mad that Iranians will not allow american companies to drill for oil in their country? Which one is it Stu? Come on tell us why so frustrated about a third world country that poses no danger to you?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Stu: I agree, but in reality how big an incentive is it really? Like i said, if its not really an issue for EU, will they neccesarily make it one just to back up the US? Am not too sure they will. The leverage they have at the mo. is the only one, and its too valuable to be wasted on something that they cud careless about. Unless ofcourse, they give in to the american hype of the hostage thing, which is too lame IMO, to even contemplate about. But your right, time will tell which road europe decides to take. things will get interesting alrite.
OG: I wasnt debating whether americans thought Bush lied or not. It is well established fact to the rest of the world that he did. How he covered that up once the lies were exposed is a diferent matter altogether. However, my point was comparing Bush’s lie to 'dinejads ‘supposed’ lie. From the political aspect, why shud the supposed lie cause a big hoohaa, and that too from people who got Bush re- elected?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
another googly from Carl Rove..
just when it gets hot for this president, he tires to defelect attention to another.. WHO the eff cares what this guy did when he was young.. our president sniffed coke, got drunk and drove, and fled away from military duty.. but today we know him for his current lies and shortcomings, not the past..
the same gang of ‘hostages’ is making the rounds.. something suspicious about how they all stick together and pop up in sync… always to prop up the administration’s viewpoints.. pretty much like those swift boat veterans shills..
move along people.. just another diversion from Rove..
and those itching to start a war with Iran and Syria.. just do it… but please don’t insult everyon’e intelligence by belaboring on issues like Ahmadinejad didn’t eat his veggies when he was young! 
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
And if we are to look at the kind of genocidal activities that each successive american president has indulged in....we would be biting more then we can chew.....tens of millions have been slaughtered due to the whims of american presidents in the last quarter century....Lets try them for their crimes against humanity first and then we will look at the alleged hostage taker.....
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Other than being a little embarassing at the get go, I don't understand what the issue is here.
Begin and Sadat really were both terrorists at one time in their respective careers. Actually, but for their backgrounds as terrorists and enemies, peace between Egypt and Israel probably would not have occured when it did, if ever. Each had the pedigree necessary with their people to "sell" the idea of peace to them. Only a guy like Nixon with his anti-communist pedigree could have opened the diplomatic doors to China at the time he did.
Frankly, in my eyes, this is an internal Iranian political issue and the rest of the world can get in a few good PR shots but that's it. Whatever the new Iranian President did 25 to 30 years ago and whatever part he played in the taking of hostages is not necessarily a good indicator of what he will do today as President of Iran. Things are different today than they were in the mid to late 1970s during and immediately after the Iranian Revolution.
Not to say that he will, but this guy probably has a better pedigree (within Iran) to allow him to open doors to the West than a lot of other candidates who we might view as more moderate.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
^ ah he's back. :)
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
There is a very famous incident during the peace talks between Israel and Syria in the mid-eighties, where the Israelis in their usual hawkish and arrogant way were not willing to make any progress, (since they were happy with the status quo and possession of Golan Heights), started accusing the Syrians of being terrorists and supporters of terrorism and what not....A moments later, the Syrian FM, heading the Syrian delegation stood up in front of all the world media and showed a wanted poster of Israeli PM, Yitzak Shamir....wanted by the British authorities prior to the creation of the illegitimate state of Israel, for terrorist activities, including bombing of civilian targets and assassinations of diplomats, the whole gamut....
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
I don’t care about Sharon or Iraq & 9-11 and I refuse to believe that a country who was caught red handed w/a clandestine nuclear program, whose entire parliament was yelling “Death to America!” in unison at a recent session, and whose new leader participated in the planning of a terrorist act against america/americans poses no danger to me or my country.
And, btw you’re the one who seems a little more than frustrated.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
MyVoice,
You are right, it is not like we have a choice as to who rigged the election and won. Ultimately he is not the decision making authority anyway. If anything given his conservative hard line approach, he will defer more to the mullahs, and degrade the post to being a yes man for the mullahs. Oh well. But first impressions do count. If he spends his first hundred days defending himself, his term will be much less effective.
When people get backed into a corner they vote for a hardliner like Sharon. And unless my eyes decieve me, there are Israeli troops at this very moment attempting to remove hard line Israeli protesters to give land to Palestinians. Ultimately if Iran did not have oil they would be a failed state. They can build all the nukes they want, but they have a huge population problem, and little industry to employ them, much like Saudi. All that oil money will be spent on social welfare programs. If Iran wanted to construct new oil facilities, it does not have the industry, capital, or expertise to grow. Ultimately it is the "economy stupid", and at this point they can either have bombs or an economy. Fusion-based pride is going to look pretty silly when the oil runs out. Just ask the USSR. they had oil, scientists, industry and bombs and they still collapsed.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
OG:
Furthermore, tell me what having a moderate Iranian President has accomplished for the world and for Iran over the last 8 years. Fraudulent elections, moderates jailed and removed from election ballots, secret nuclear programs, etc., etc., etc.
You state as follows: ** "Ultimately he is not the decision making authority anyway. If anything given his conservative hard line approach, he will defer more to the mullahs, and degrade the post to being a yes man for the mullahs." **
You know, a different outcome is possible. Maybe the mullahs rejected all the reforms offered by the reformers/moderates because they didn't trust them and were unsure of the ultimate results that those reforms would have vis a vis their own power base. Because the new President is a hardliner too, if he (miracle of miracles) ever proposed a reform, they might even be more inclined to, at least, consider it before pullling out their "DENIED" rubber stamp.
I personally think that the last couple decades have demonstrated that the only real hope for reform comes from people power. At some point in a failed state, the people get so fed up that they take to the streets in such numbers that even the most repressive states topple. Iran isn't there yet. The government is still willing to kill and jail the dissenters in numbers that cow the people from acting in mass and the mass of people haven't reached their breaking point.
Chances are that if this guy totally rejects all reform and the economy and standard of living continue to tumble and freedoms continue to be restrained, it will make the cauldron boil a little faster. If he pushes reform and gets the mullahs to go along, the people win a little bit. If he doesn't, the people will be a little closer to the day when they will win.
As long as this guy's focus is on internal repression and agression, the rest of the world doesn't have much to lose. If he decides to export his agression, then we'll have to deal with it. IMO, we should just let Iran either get better on its own or implode on its own.....with some well placed covert assitance to help things along, of course. ;)
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
^^ I agree with a great deal of this. I think the young will generate a second revolution. The young in Iran make great sport of flaunting authority. The reform candidates that were denied certification are largely the candidates supported by youth. A monolithic leadership of the country may energize youthful opponenets even further. If they feel that elections will be stolen, they will take to the streets.
And I would support the spending of MyVoices tax dollars to support the youth.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
mv:
[quote]
with some well placed covert assitance to help things along, of course
[/quote]
not if i can help it mate.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Sounds like Irans new President knows all about covert operations:
Iran’s New Leader Suspected in '89 Attack By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jul 2, 6:29 AM ET
VIENNA, Austria - Austrian authorities have classified documents suggesting that Iran’s president-elect may have played a key role in the 1989 execution-style slayings of an Iranian Kurdish leader and two associates in Vienna, a newspaper reported Saturday.
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Austria’s Interior Ministry and the public prosecutor’s office are investigating alleged evidence pointing to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s possible involvement in the attack, the daily Der Standard reported.
Officials were not immediately available to comment on the report Saturday.
The allegations against Ahmadinejad come as some of the Americans who were taken captive in Iran in 1979 implicate the newly elected leader in the hostage crisis. Radical Iranian students took over the U.S. Embassy and held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days.
In Austria, Green Party leader Peter Pilz told the newspaper he wants a warrant issued for the arrest of Ahmadinejad, who he alleged “stands under strong suspicion of having been involved.”
Pilz accused the hard-liner of planning the murders of Kurdish resistance leader Abdul-Rahman Ghassemlou and two of his colleagues, all of whom were shot in the head at a Vienna apartment by Iranian commandos on July 13, 1989. A fourth victim survived the attack and was able to crawl out of the apartment and alert Austrian authorities.
Pilz told Der Standard his source was an unidentified Iranian journalist living in France, who he said also claimed to have evidence that former Iranian President Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani gave the order to have Ghassemlou killed. He did not elaborate.
He said Ahmadinejad, then a high-ranking member of Iran’s elite revolutionary guard, allegedly traveled to the Austrian capital a few days before the slayings to deliver the murder weapons to the commandos who carried out the attack. Austrian authorities have said the gunmen apparently entered the alpine country with Iranian diplomatic passports.
Pilz said the journalist was contacted in 2001 by one of the alleged gunmen, described as a former revolutionary guard who has since died in a drowning accident.
“The descriptions of the informant contained details of the scene (of the slayings) which could only have come from someone who was there,” Pilz said. He said the gunman’s account, which included “very convincing” evidence implicating Ahmadinejad, was turned over at the time to Austria’s federal counterterrorism agency.
Prague’s Pravo newspaper reported similar allegations on Friday, quoting Hossein Jazdan Panah, an exiled Kurdish opposition member, as saying Ahmadinejad “was in charge of hit operations abroad” at the time of the Vienna killings.
Ghassemlou, the gunmen’s principle target, was secretary-general of the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan. His delegation had been in Vienna for secret talks with envoys from the Tehran regime.
The gunmen managed to slip out of Austria after the attack and were never arrested.
Pilz’s Green Party pressed unsuccessfully in 1997 for the creation of a special parliamentary inquiry to look into a possible cover-up by Austrian officials, who it believes bowed to pressure from Iran’s government and allowed the commandos to leave Austria, allegedly providing them a police escort to Vienna’s international airport. Those allegations have never been proven.
On Friday, the United States said it would not be surprised if Ahmadinejad turns out to have been a main participant in the holding of American hostages in Tehran a quarter-century ago, although the Bush administration cautioned that it was still trying to determine the facts.
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
aww must a been a pretty good candidate for the CIA no?
Re: President/Terrorist Ahmadinejad?
Amazing how standards can slip. Crooked election, hostage taker, and now participating in a hit squad? Is this the best that the Muslim world can muster for their leaders? Maybe he can go to the Yassir Arafat Graduate school for embezzlement, and his resume will be complete.