Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
What is the difference between nafil namaz and sunnah namaz and farz namaz?
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
you dunno that :-/ ?
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
You want to answer the question? Please see my response in the other thread where I ask you to try and answer the question to the point. Which again, you've failed to do.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Sure.. but I was making sure that, that you really did not know the basics of Salah.
Anyway,
Fardh = Made compulsory by ALLAH:swt:
Waajib = It’s very much similar to Fardh but are very small in number, for example the two salah of the year on the days of Eid and Waajib-e-Vitar at night.
Sunnah = The prayer that Prophet:saw: offered besides the Fardh salah. There are two categories. One, which Prophet:saw: offered regularly known as Sunnat-e-Mo’akkideh… and the one called Sunnat-e-Gher Mo’akkedah which Prophet:saw: sometime offered and sometime did not.
Nafil = Prophet:saw: prayed them and suggested them as well but did not offer them as a regular habbit as Sunnah prayer… Besides the regular nawaafil in salah, you can pray your own nawaafils as much as you like…
Qadhaa of Fardh is also Fardh including the qadhaa of Wajib-ul-Vitar.
Qadha of Sunnah is not Fardh except for the two sunnah of Faj’r that too if offered before Noon.
If Sunnat-e-Mo’akkida are missed due to the fear of missing fardh congregational prayer, they ought to be offer after the fardh.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Settle down, .
It is arrogant and very typical male desi mentality of you to think that I don’t know the BASICS of namaaz, as you like to refer to the definitions of fardz, sunnat, naafal, etc.
I only wanted you to define these yourself so that I may point out a logical inconsistency by using the very hadith you are promoting and the very definitions you have laid out. In short, I’m pulling a Socrates on you.
The Hadith say the following, and I’ll bold the important modifiers/clauses:
Hadith 1:
Jabir ibn Abdullah (r) reports: A man entered on the day of jumuah whilst the Prophet (saw) was delivering the khutba. The Prophet (saw) asked him: “Have you prayed?” The man said: “No” The Prophet (saw) said: "Then pray two rak’ahs"
Hadith 2:
Bukhari records this in his Sahih (2:53) under the chapter heading: “Whoever arrives and the Imam is delivering the khutba should pray two light rak’ahs (rak’atayn khafifatayn)”
Third Hadith:
And in Sahih Muslim (2:1903) the Prophet (saw) is recorded as having also said on the same topic:
“When any of you comes on the day of jumuah and the Imam is delivering the khutba, pray two rak’ahs and make them short.”
My question:
How is anyone classifying these 2 rakat as naafil or sunnat or farz (as my dear old lady emphasized that I CANNOT enter the masjid without doing these two rakats), when the hadiths themselves are very clear that these two rakats apply categorically to all, no exceptions allowed?
That sounds more like farz to me, IMHO.
So who exactly decides whether its farz, sunnah, or naafil again? Or are these arbitrary definitions we’ve slapped onto certain prayer elements? Or…are the hadith’s themselves skewed…for they don’t admit that the Prophet sometimes offered these prayers and sometimes did not…
These hadith’s are very contradictory to the definition of nafl… which you yourself define as
“Nafil = Prophet:saw: prayed them and suggested them as well but did not offer them as a regular habbit as Sunnah prayer”
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
then treat them as farz.. good luck..
also do you know who decided at what point the marker of the end of ayah to be placed?
you will find all your queries in the answer to that question.
and one more thing… you give such respect:jazak: no name calling masha ALLAH.
I was just asking… I never said you did not know the basics… your question suggested you did not know… and again you came up with your brain-defined islam… Oh my goodness for last 1400 years ago, we were given the wrong info.. PCG the saviour 
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
** at what point the marker of the end of ayah to be placed**
expand on this - this is like trying to understand chinese - you really need work on your writing skills.
Calling someone a rooster is not name-calling. You are a male and you do a lot of kukar-koo on this website. Its a suitable name.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
let me rephrase: How do you know that an ayah ends at certain point. Is there any rule?
as for kukar-koo stuff… I can go with calling you something but I won’t and just to irritate you again (let’t not post an ayah right now)… let me tell you for your own good… you keep calling me all that name with any excuse, you are not doing any harm to me for such behaviour which you are showing is mentioned in Surah AL hujurat anyway 
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
It's common sense people. How can you pick a 'sunnah' (which you can't even concentrate on while the sermon is going on) over an obligatory part of Jum'ah i.e. the sermon. I suggest everyone here read the book on the ettiquettes of worship by Imam Al-Ghazali in his collection 'Ihya ul 'Uloom'.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Good another excuse for you to bash Islam…
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Bhayeo ! Larai jhagra na karo 
So many scholars here …
Ok here are my 4 *aney *
Jumma prayers are organised as following in Pakistan in masajids ..
-
First Azaan (around 1-1/2 hours before jamaat /congressional prayers)
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Khutba in regional language which last 40~50 min ( this is mostly on current affairs or topic chosen by khateeb) during this time there is no restrictions on praying nafal/sunnat or talking, but prefferably one should listen what imam is saying.
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Time (5 min) alocated for people to offer their sunnat prayers ( if they have not performed it in their homes as sunnat prayers should prefferably be offered at home)
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Second Azaan
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Khutba in Arabic ( it is mandatory to listen, silently and carefully, praying or talking is prohibited during the time) it is usually 10 min long
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Aqamat (the announcement congressional prayers )
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Congressional prayers (jamaat, praying 2 rakat farz )
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dua +nafl etc
back home or office
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Here's a discussion on this point from the book The Friday Prayer Part 1: The Fiqh (Zarabozo, IANA, 1994) pp.111-117... as you can see the discussion is over six pages so i'll only extract some of the more salient points... my brief comments are in [square brackets]
Performing Tahiyyat al-Masjid Prayer During the Khutbah
"... there is a difference of opinion concerning the person who comes late to the Friday prayer, while the Imam is delivering the khutbah. Should this person pray two rakats first and then sit or should he simply sit and skip the tahiyat al-masjid prayer? Once again, there are two apparently conflicting orders: One says that he should not sit until he prays two rakats and the other states that he should not speak and must remain silent during the khutbah...
However, on this question, there is a clear hadith from the Prophet (saw) that seems to settle this issue [see the hadith i posted earlier from Bukhari and Muslim]
Most of the Hanafis say that if a person comes late to the khutbah, he should sit without performing the tahiyat al-masjid prayer. Ibn al-Humam [d. 681H] states that ibn Abu Shaibah recorded in al-Musannaf that Ali, ibn Abbas and ibn Umar disliked prayers or speaking after the Imam arrives... Similarly it is recorded that al-Zuhri [d. 124H] stated that if a person comes while the khateeb is speaking, he must sit and not pray. Also, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, 'If you say to your companion on Friday, 'Be quiet,' you have made laghu (vain and useless speech).' By the inferred meaning this must also mean that one should not pray tahiyat al-masjid as that is only sunnah [in the Hanafi view]... Some might argue, says ibn al-Humam, that the explicit meaning of the following hadith must take precedence over the inferred meaning of the previous hadith: [again, see the first hadith I posted earlier]... The response to this is that al-Daraqutni records that the Prophet (saw) stopped his khutbah until the person finished his prayer. This is recorded in mursal form by Imam Ahmad... Mursal hadith are authorities according to the Hanafi school [but not according to the majority of hadith scholars who classify such hadith as weak]... Al-Sarakshi adds that the incident concerning Sulaik [the companion who was asked to pray] could have taken place before the prohibition of speaking during the khutbah.
As ibn al-Humam himself points out, there is a conflict between the explicit meaning of some hadith and the inferred meaning of other hadith. In case of such conflicts, the explicit meaning is to take precedence unless there is some overwhelming evidence to show otherwise...
Some scholars argue that the Prophet (saw) told [only] that particular person, Sulaik, to pray two rakats and the ruling was only for him. They argue that he was a very poor person and the Prophet (peace be upon him) wanted people to see him and then they would give him charity. In fact, in a narration in Musnad Ahmad, it states that he entered the mosque dressed poorly. This argument must be rejected on a number of grounds. First, the wording of the Prophet (peace be upon him) is general *... [it would also] imply that the poor can pray during any of the prohibited times in order for them to collect charity. This is a view that no scholar seems to hold. Fourth, al-Tabarani recorded a similar incident but with respect to a different Companion, al-Numan ibn Qauqal. Hence, this implies it was a general ruling...
Yet others argue on the basis of the hadith, 'Do not pray while the Imam is delivering the khutbah.'... However, as ibn Hajr [d. 852H] points out, this hadith is not authentic...
In Ibn Rushd's [d. 595H] opinion, the cause for the difference of opinion is the conflict between the rule of analogy and the generality of a certain text The general text is the hadith concerning the tahiyat al-masjid prayer... Yet the command to remain silent during the khutbah implies that one must avoid any action that would busy himself from being silent and listening... The generality of the above [tahiyat al-masjid] hadith is further supported by the specific hadith which states [see my second hadith posted earlier from Sahih Muslim]... Then Ibn Rushd states, 'If this additional wording is authentic [the hadith from Sahih Muslim], then it is obligatory to act upon it *. It is [a clarifying] text on a matter of difference of opinion and it cannot be opposed by analogy.'
The Shafis and Hanbalis both agree that the person who enters late, while the Imam is speaking, is supposed to perform tahiyat al-masjid prayer... In fact, al Nawawi [d. 621H] wrote, while discussing the tahiyat al-masjid prayer during the khutbah, 'I cannot imagine any scholar would hear the authentic wording of this hadith and then he would differ from it.'
Furthermore, all scholars are in agreement that besides the controversial tahiyat al-masjid, it is absolutely forbidden to intentionally be performing voluntary prayers while the Imam is delivering the khutbah...
... the tahiyat al-masjid prayer is only to be performed in a mosque. Therefore, if the Friday Prayer, for some reason, is being held in a place that is not a mosque, there is no tahiyat al-masjid prayer. Therefore, if one enters late while the Imam is speaking in such a place, he does not pray two rakats but simply sits and listens to the khutbah." [end quote]**
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Thank-you. I’ll print this one out too and give it to the old intrusive Arab lady.
:k:
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
AQ - exactly who is talking about "ayahs" here? This "controversial prayer" is not mentioned in any ayah. I've been discussing hadith.
You still did not answer my question, and I am not going to repeat it for you, either. Shame.
Che - no one is bashing Islam. I'm bashing an old lady who thinks she knows everything.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
PCG, don't get mad at the poor lady. As you can see, some still believe that the two rakah should be offered quickly even when the khutba is on. However, it may have been better for her to remain silent, as there are ahadith that state that one should not talk during a khutba. Perhaps she could've waited till the end.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Poor lady?
She's self-righteous and she decided to keep disturbing me even when I told her that i'm trying to listen to the sermon! So she's proud and she thinks that just because she's older, she's right!
I don't think so sadiyah. I'm pretty tired of all these old muslim people - desi and non-desi - who are totally UNABLE to connect with the younger generation.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Tell us how it goes with her (ie. when you present her your findings).
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
and perhaps the same can be said for the younger generation unable to connect with the older
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
Wow! I had never heard of this nonsense before nor did I ever offer those 2 extra-credit ( 
) rakaats for entering the mosque.
Anyhoot, we Sunnis (PCG I am assuming you went to a Sunni mosque) over complicate everything. We should follow the example of Aga Khanis and their religion of convenience. They have 3 prayers a day and simple ones at that – recitation of few verses from the Koran and you are done.
Simplicity people, simplicity.
Re: Praying Salute to the Mosque?
By your own admission you said the sermon was in arabic which you didn’t understand, what were you exactly trying to listen to when you obviously hadn’t a clue what was being said?