If people don't like it in Britain, they are free to move elsewhere. I find it hypocritical that people who in their native countries support brutal treatment of minorities and "heretics" with Blasphemy and other laws, come to Western nations and cry to Uncle.
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*Originally posted by Talwar: *
If people don't like it in Britain, they are free to move elsewhere. I find it hypocritical that people who in their native countries support brutal treatment of minorities and "heretics" with Blasphemy and other laws, come to Western nations and cry to Uncle.
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If you claim to be a nation of freedom of religion etc and then apply double standards you are the one crying and lying!
who supports brutal treatment of minorities i think you must live in the states or Israel where they treat minorities like vermin!
For all of you crying about the lack of freedom for Muslims in Britain because of this one article, please read this line one more time: *Members said they had to consider residents from all faiths, and an appeal from a Christian church to ring bells five times a day would also be rejected. *
In the west, no one is picks and chooses which faiths they allow people to practice. But in a secular society there are a lot more issues to take into consideration other than the "right" of people to blare what others consider to be "noise" 5 times a day.
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Islam itself is a religion of equality among all people.No matter what race, gender or age.You're confusing the religion with the people.
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It's curious how you can differentiate between Islam and Muslims (theory and practice), but not give the same benefit of the doubt when it comes to the theory and practice of freedom of religion. Freedom doesn't mean you do what you want, when you want, and how you want if it infringes on the rights of tohers.
There seems to be a lot of criticism of the west because they "boast" of religous freedoms. Get over the "boasting" already. As I already posted, I haven't come across a group who boasts more about their religion and piety than Muslims, so please apply equal outrage to those who boast about things that are not as perfect as they claim. In theory there is unrestricted freedom of religion. But just as in Islam, theory and practice are not perfect.
Boasting about piety i think you been smoking the illegal stuff again.
so call to prayer is noise to people really hmmm that has got to be the lamest excuse of the week.
talk about hypocrisy, you got music blaring out of clubs and peoples houses but a mosque making a simple call to prayer is noise how ridiculous and petty can you get than that!
Secularists showing how contradictory there system really is, claim to be vanguards of freedom of religion and freedom of this and that shows that in reality there ideology has more contradictions and holes than swiss cheese!
Seminole--Im not crying for the lack of anything.And Im aware that freedom isnt doing what you want when you want it.Thank you for enlightening me on that anyhow.
There is a difference between a person who claims to be a Muslim, and Islam. Yes Muslims are followers in Islam.However, there are some so called Muslims who have changed Islam to suit their own corrupt actions.Why cant people just admit that Islam isnt very liked by other faiths? And bringing other countries which have no relation doesnt make any sense. So bottom line is that you think one should punch back when punched.
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
Boasting about piety i think you been smoking the illegal stuff again.
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Strange, considering EVERY single one of your posts are either bashing the west or boasting of your perfect system.
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so call to prayer is noise to people really hmmm that has got to be the lamest excuse of the week.
talk about hypocrisy, you got music blaring out of clubs and peoples houses but a mosque making a simple call to prayer is noise how ridiculous and petty can you get than that!
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We are talking about cultures here. British civilization existed for thousands of years and developed their culture WITHOUT the call to prayer interupting their lives 5 times per day. Who are you to say what they should consider noise?
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Secularists showing how contradictory there system really is, claim to be vanguards of freedom of religion and freedom of this and that shows that in reality there ideology has more contradictions and holes than swiss cheese!
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Is that really any different than the vanguards of any religion who claim perfection, piety and the only path to God and afterlife when there are just as many contradictions and holes?
I agree with Blackburn Council. We live in a multi-cultural, multi faith country where we can go about practicing our faith but also be sensitive to the wishes of all. Just because the area around the said mosque is an Asian ghetto doesn't mean they can do what they like. An azaan is loud and it can be an 'afront' to non-muslims and we have to respect that - its not as though the Islamic faith comes to a complete halt just because that isn't allowed.
I used to live in a predominantly Jewish area in London some years ago where the Jewish community wanted to impose aspects of the Sabbath on the community at large - there was an uproar from the non-Jewish residents (including Muslims) and it was eventually rejected - quite rightly so. So the same rules of multi-cultural sensitivities apply to all.
On the subject of Azaan again, the mosque near my fathers house has issued (for a small price) small radio receivers to worshipers so that they can hear the azaan coming from the mosque inside their homes. Hence technology has provided a novel solution. It works, its simple and no ones complaining.
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Why cant people just admit that Islam isnt very liked by other faiths?
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Please explain how one faith can like or dislike another? Are you implying that Islam is more tolerant of other faiths than vice versa?
'
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*Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
Seminole--Im not crying for the lack of anything.And Im aware that freedom isnt doing what you want when you want it.Thank you for enlightening me on that anyhow.
There is a difference between a person who claims to be a Muslim, and Islam. Yes Muslims are followers in Islam.However, there are some so called Muslims who have changed Islam to suit their own corrupt actions.Why cant people just admit that Islam isnt very liked by other faiths? And bringing other countries which have no relation doesnt make any sense. So bottom line is that you think one should punch back when punched.
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MS
Why do you have such a victim mentality ("..Islam isn't very liked by other faiths...") ? Every faith believes it holds the monopoly of truth, and that every other is a distortion - and muslims aren't an exception.
"There is a difference between a person who claims to be a Muslim, and Islam. Yes Muslims are followers in Islam.However, there are some so called Muslims who have changed Islam to suit their own corrupt actions.."
This baseless arguement continues to be expounded. Everyone who uses it believes they have the ultimate answer to the absolute truth, and that all other interpretaions are false. You have to get around to the very simple fact Lady, that you will always have differences in interpretation - minor and major - and that continuing to call those with interpretaions other then yours as 'corrupt' or 'suiting their needs' doesn't progress matters. And Seminole is right - why shouldn't he raise the issue of muslim countries who have little ragards for human rights - especially if they operate under the banner of Islam - what an insult to Islam ?
The secular countries which are hated so much on this forum are actually the ones practicing Islamic values - freedom to practice your faith, a right to education and health provision, basic human rights, opportunities to advance professionally and the right to political debate without being locked up...I could go on....
^Firstly its M*Q* not M*S* .Secondly I do believe that despte the differences of opinion, there is a universal * truth.I do not have the 'victim mentality', Im just sick to death of people thinking that when Muslims voice their opinions, its because they dont realize the actual *meaning of freedom, or that they dont take a better look at the so called Islamic nations.
When you bring the so called 'secular countries' into the discussion, this is what I mean that theres a difference between what the actual Islam is, and what some 'Muslims' have made it into. The Taliban thought they had it all figured out; in truth they went beyond and above of what the real Islam is about.
People have misconceptions about Islam.Here you guys are thinking we shouldnt whine, because its Britain.It has a right to ban the call of prayer.I do agree that the west and other countires offer a great deal more sometimes, than the 'Islamic nations'.However, if its going to be about equality, then let there be equality among all people .
When I was growing up in Pakistan, my school was right next to a church, and I remember that the church bells will ring without fail each day at the appointed time. There was also a hindu mandir (or a sikh gurdawara, I can't remember) closeby where they will use their ghantis (bells) regularly too. And then, ofcourse, we will have a zillion mosques using loud-speakers for adhaan (each of them start one minute after the other :))
Point being, we diss Pakistan all the time for not catering to the minorities as best as we expect, and still people of all faith have the freedom to practice their religion, atleast sofar as to have bells in church or mandirs ring or masjids have adhaan.
While in my mind, this not such a black and white issue, because most western countries put more emphasis on noise pollution etc compared to Pakistan, however, when an over-whelming population of a location belongs to a particular faith, it just raises the question of who is not given appropriate recognition of their rights.
"feelings of followers of other faiths"
I have heard that one before. In fact, it's part of Pakistan Ordinance which also prohibits a call to the prayer. I didn't know UK was going backward in holding the noble principle of religious freedom.
haha faisal bhai, I guess I should have read your post before posting mine.
There is nothing wrong with citizens of a country advocating change against what they perceive as injustices in their own country. But when it is delivered with such disdain, disregard for the facts, a generalization used to condemn all of western society and coming from people who wish to impose a system that is 2nd in religous oppression only to the current "Islamic" governments, it is hypercritical and disingenuous.
Im a Canadian and happy to live under its laws.
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*Originally posted by Seminole: *
There is nothing wrong with citizens of a country advocating change against what they perceive as injustices in their own country. But when it is delivered with such disdain, disregard for the facts, a generalization used to condemn all of western society and coming from people who wish to impose a system that is 2nd in religous oppression only to the current "Islamic" governments, it is hypercritical and disingenuous.
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I doubt even one person who posted in this thread actually lives in that community so your commentary, though interesting, is hardly relevant. Here we have a bunch of people who have an opinion, give their opinions. Right or wrong. It doesn't mean that these people are going to make any of these changes, or even put them to the right authorities. The muslims of that community did that, and I am sure they did a good job presenting their case in an appropriate manner.
Faisal that covers my first sentence, but what about the 2nd?
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But when it is delivered with such disdain, disregard for the facts, a generalization used to condemn all of western society and coming from people who wish to impose a system that is 2nd in religous oppression only to the current "Islamic" governments, it is hypercritical and disingenuous.
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Hypocrisy and selective reasoning are more tolerable when it comes from those who don't accuse others of the same thing with all their posts.
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Originally posted by Muslim_Queen: *
^Firstly its M*Q not M*S* .Secondly I do believe that despte the differences of opinion, there is a universal * truth.I do not have the 'victim mentality', Im just sick to death of people thinking that when Muslims voice their opinions, its because they dont realize the actual *meaning of freedom, or that they dont take a better look at the so called Islamic nations.
When you bring the so called 'secular countries' into the discussion, this is what I mean that theres a difference between what the actual Islam is, and what some 'Muslims' have made it into. The Taliban thought they had it all figured out; in truth they went beyond and above of what the real Islam is about.
People have misconceptions about Islam.Here you guys are thinking we shouldnt whine, because its Britain.It has a right to ban the call of prayer.I do agree that the west and other countires offer a great deal more sometimes, than the 'Islamic nations'.However, if its going to be about equality, then let there be equality among all people .
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Don't understand what your point is in your first two paras. Anyway, as you mentioned the taliban, and 'universal truth' - the Taliban obviously felt they knew what the universal truth was and put it into practice - as do the Saudi's, and any other Muslim nation. Whose universal truth is the right univeral truth ? If muslim nations were so disgusted by the 'beyond and above' Talibans, why didn't they take collective action against this major transgretion of faith ?
I agree with your issue of equality for all - but lets get real. Things get accepted into new environments in bite-sized chunks. I can't see the British or the Canadians or whoever accepting cows roaming the streets because it is a religious right demanded by the Hindus at this point in time, though perhaps in time that day will come - and so will the azaan over Blackburn.
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*Originally posted by ak47: *
If you claim to be a nation of freedom of religion etc and then apply double standards you are the one crying and lying!
who supports brutal treatment of minorities i think you must live in the states or Israel where they treat minorities like vermin!
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so a country can ban islam and do anything to muslims if they declare
themselves not democratic?