PPP Sindh's racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza's remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking people

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: PPP Sindh’s racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza’s remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

I have seen the video, it is more like a variety program rather than mujra. Banner says “Pakistani Society Denmark” seemed to arrange this program and white leady was doing Bhangrha, what is wrong with it?

Now tell me what is the logic behind killing 15 innocent people and burning of number of vehicles of poor people by mqm? in qatilon ko support kartay howay koi khauf-e-khuda hay ke nahi. You keep on rhetoric and justifying these killings. Do you know that these brutal acts of mqm, the ultimate suferers will be poor working class muhjir community? Listen again to the agony of poor lady and a poor man in the video provided by Spock .

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My friend, try not to be among those who are ignorant racists!

Go ahead explain where is the problem in what I said, take the best shot. I suggest you read the history or ask your elders!

Amazed to see above people saying they did not find problem in what Zulfiqar Mirza said.

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Don't just come and start posting. Read first why I posted that video and where my emphasis was.
Spock was making allegation against Waseem Akhtar, and in this video Waseem was explaining that statement of his. That was the purpose.
That mujra there was a part of the video which someone had uploaded on youtube. I could not take that part out. But my emphasis was on Waseem's clarification only.
Personally, I don't care whether Waseem's allegation about mujra on PMLN members was right or not. Even if he was right it still does not make any difference to me as to how I perceive PMLN members. I don't even bring up Imran's Sita White issue. True or not, it's of no concern to me.

[quote]
Now tell me what is the logic behind killing 15 innocent people and burning of number of vehicles of poor people by mqm?
[/quote]

How do you know those people were ordered to kill innocent people by MQM leadership? That's just your allegation.
Yes, people who were agitating, people who burned buses, and people who killed those 15 people were most likely Urdu speakers. And it is also possible that they belonged to MQM (I don't know, no one knows). But even then, how can you say that it was ordered by MQM leadership? How can you hold MQM responsible for it?
If you still believe it to be true then would you agree that attacks from Kati Pahari by Pashtuns were ordered by ANP? Would you agree that attacks on Katchi community in Lyari were ordered by PPP? And these are just two examples.

[quote]
in qatilon ko support kartay howay koi khauf-e-khuda hay ke nahi. You keep on rhetoric and justifying these killings.
[/quote]

And where did I justify these killings? Jhoot bolte hue khauf e khuda mehsoos hota he ya nahin?
Zulfiqar Mirza jese mata'assib laanatiyon ki himayat karte hue bhi koi khauf e khuda mehsoos hota he?

[quote]
the ultimate suferers will be poor working class muhjir community?
[/QUOTE]

You just agreed with me. Who do you think will make those from muhajir community suffer? If this does happen, would you hold ANP and PPP top leadership responsible for those killings?

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^ @ Diwana My friend! I know the history and read it from both the sides (Urdu as well as Sindhi writers). No where in the history, it is established that local people were unable to run country's machinery. Yes! Urdu speaking ppl have contributions for this country, that doesn't mean to treat others like nothing and all ignorant.

I hope I could clear my point on this point.

No one is justifying Mirza's language, what is being condemned is MQMs attitude and resultant killings, which is unnecessarily being justified by some friends. Whatever I write, I do have in my mind the conception that although we are different ethnic groups (Sindhi, Muhajir, Punjabi, etc), but at the end we should behave like one nation (Pakistani) without creating discrimination (by referring to so called superiority of cultures or creating impression for other groups that they were nothing and everything was taught to them by other group).

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Protests started by mqm by tuning on button by AH, after killing 18 innocnent people and burning properties suddenly stopped by turning off the button by AH. Do you want me to provide link where AH ordered (request) to stop agitation by mqm? However target killings resumed by AH/mqm by killing a ppp leader and supporters in Karachi.

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Re: PPP Sindh's racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza's remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

OK.

I asked you where did you find problem in my post. Did I not say "Not discounting sacrifices of others"? Please read again my post.
There was nothing against anyone there.

So again I ask you find the problem in what I said.

I repeat, Pakistan was run in its infancy by people who migrated from India during or around 1947 and that tradition continued for a long time.

People need to learn to be thankful and not be deluded by anyone who tries to create confusion.

**Nothing wrong in accepting the historic facts.

Also, in the disguise of condemning MQM, Muhajirs should not become as the target of condemnation.

**

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Re: PPP Sindh’s racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza’s remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

My friend! before I provide you any proof for ability of local ppl to run government, just answer me how were things run by locals before partition. Was there no system for running state matters smoothly before partition. I do agree that you didn’t discount other communities, but you did create impression that everything was improved and done by migrants. Let me just refer to some videos, which show how much Karachi has been developed after independence.

PS: I’m currently sharing some information regarding Karachi, its archeology, its demography before & after partition, etc through thread (link given below), Plz do read my posts time by time to know further facts about our city.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/culture-literature-and-linguistics/509577-karachi-sindh-ji-marvi-a-book-on-karachi.html#post8375507

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Re: PPP Sindh’s racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza’s remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

Bhai sahab! Your post can be divided in to two.

One: You are going to show Karachi/Pakistan had the skills/efforts and economic ability to survive because of locals. (Not true)

Two: Videos in which someone is is sad over the loss of “old Karachi”, who even has problem with naming a street of karachi as Zaibunnisa Street or mixed religious people not in Karachi anymore as well as no longer having having tram services.

All of these have nothing to do with the discussion but it is a good discussion and reasons can be discussed somewhere else.

I fail to see the relevance of these videos since you selectively showed videos of OLD Karachi. Unless somehow you want to show Karachi was ‘destroyed’ by Muhajirs.. :smack:

The economy of Karachi has been the role model for many in early days and Karachi to date provides the economic support to Pakistan and** has it not been for Muhajirs, (those who migrated from India to Karachi) the country would have failed altogether from beginning. **South Korea adopted this model based on Karachi’s economy.

Read this my friend:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Karachi

Pakistan’s capital (1947-1958)District Karachi was chosen as the capital city of Pakistan and accommodated a huge influx of migrants and refugees from India to the newly formed country.

As a consequence, the demographics of the city also changed drastically. However, it still maintained a great cultural diversity as its new inhabitants arrived from the different parts of the India. In 1958, the capital of Pakistan was shifted from Karachi to Islamabad and Karachi became the capital of Sindh.

Large no. of rufugees migrated from India and embarked Karachi as the city of lights. Current modern Karachi is the result of efforts made by Mohajirs and their ancestors.[h=2]edit]

**Cosmopolitan City (1958-1980)

**This marked the start of a long period of decline in the city due to settlement of huge crowds of illegal refugees from other parts of the world. The city’s population continued to grow exceeding the capacity of its creaking infrastructure and increased the pressure on the city.

**During the 1960s, Karachi was seen as an economic role model around the world. Many countries sought to emulate Pakistan’s economic planning strategy and one of them, South Korea, copied the city’s second “Five-Year Plan” and World Financial Centre in Seoul is designed and modeled after Karachi.

Now, I have no problem in saying that the decision to move the capital of Pakistan from Karachi to ISB was one of the most stupid decision.**

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I don’t agree your point that Karachi couldn’t have developed if migrants from India not arrived. Read first chapter of ’ Jinnah of Pakistan’ by Stanley Wolpert and find out what it says about potential of Karachi port, economic viability & business growth due to its strategic position even before partition in the absence of Migrants (Again I repeat Muhajirs have done a lot for Karchi, but others contribution can’t be ignored for its development). Lines from Wikipedia is not enough to prove your statement **has it not been for Muhajirs, (those who migrated from India to Karachi) the country would have failed altogether from beginning.

**My aim for showing these videos was not to show that Muhajirs destroyed Karachi, but to show how the things were handled by the so called machinery that converted Karachi from clean to ugly city and converting its rich heritage to filth. The guy in the video was requesting to own & safeguard the heritage and original names of places (as ppl all around the world are doing with their cities).

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Re: PPP Sindh's racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza's remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

^^ I would like to bring your attention on the importance of Human Capital when it comes to the development, if you look at the sea-Route, you would find that Jebel-Ali of UAE has no strategic importance not when compare to Gawadar, Salalah and Port of Sohar, yet it is one of the most busiest port of the region and act as a hub.. The carriers have to take the pain of crossing straight of Hermez and have to spend 2 extra days per voyauge... which they could have easily saved if they goes to Salalah, Sohar (Oman) but we can see that the Human Capital have made Jebel-Ali more important ( the port is situated in Arabian Gulf whereas other two ports are in the Arabian sea with comparatively easy access...

The the reason for this is Oman didn't realize the importance of right kind of man power/H-capital it required, whereas Dubai invited all it can and results are same...

It can't be said that, Muhajir did play their part in the development which should not be underestimated at any point. on the same note, they did it thinking that this (Pakistan) is their country...

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Agreed, but this doesn't call for any statement saying without Muhajirs, Karachi's development was not possible and Pakistan would have become a failed state at its inception. Everyone contributed and scarified for this country (considering it their own) and no one should try to prove its superiority at the cost of others.

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Are you saying that just because of its positon in the map and being a port city, Karachi flourished? You need people to make it happen. People who had the means and skills.

Glad that you said Muhajirs did a lot for Karachi. Show me what 'others' did in economic advancement Pakisan and Karachi** in the beginning years that would have made Pakistan survived for decades. Please!

Ever heard of 22 families? Who gave money to Pakisan (blank check given to Jinnah) to pay for the salaries of Govt. workers?

**Let's face it. Locals were largely land owners and agriculturists. Industries were very few and revenue would have been extremely low for Pakistan to survive from agriculture alone.

Education sector was under-developed. Earlier Govt. prior to partition did not put emphasis on education of areas where Pakistan later was formed. Muhajirs brought basic to high education to the country since they were experienced in running the offices in India and were better versed in English and Law and 'govermental language'.

Ask anyone from Karachi whose parents/grand parents how they worked even without salaries and recycled papers in offices to save money of the govt.

Many schools were started in Karachi by the migrants from India. Hence the education level became much higher in Karachi compared to the rest of the country.

To your second paragraph:

In one sentencse you said you did not want to show that Muhajirs 'destoyed' Karachi and you contnued on saying that things were handled by so called machinary that converted Karachi from clean to ugly city and converting its rich heritage to filth. Pretty bold statement!

Make up your mind and please do not chang the fact that YOU DO BELIVE somehow Muhajirs 'destroyed' the city and your intention as I understood correctly earlier by showing those videos was skewed and biased.

Here is the answer and you must have read it in the link I provided.

Karachi attracted a lot of people not only from outside the country like Afghanistan in 70's but continued influx of people from within Pakistan tremendously increased Karachi population and most of them did not contribute to the development of Karachi itself rather they used Karachi as a **source of earning **but spent money outside, as well as they did not pay fair taxes to Karachi.

The filth you mentioned was not because of Muhajirs, since you can ask anyone what was the condition of Karachi before 70s high influx of people and then came the quota system which brought highly unskilled unpatriotic to Karachi people taking part in Karachi govt. machinary. Absolute disregard of the city's beauty.

Please visit the areas where vast majority of Muhajirs lived in and up to 1970's. No filth. Good sewage system, clean roads. The tram service could not hold the needs after 1970's so had to go unfortunately.

If you place a huge population in a small area like the Karachi, what you call filth is bound to happen. The man in the video was crying for a reason but that is not because of Muhajirs.

Still I think you should appreciate the efforts made by Karachi people to make it a land of highways and overpasses and high rise buildings.

None of your position is true my friend. Read the history and/or ask your elders.

You have the right to disagree, but bring factual reasons not just saying I do not agree.

**Muhajirs did not come Bhookay Nangay as this racist said! They gave a lot to Pakistan. That is what I started with.

**

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Sorry I missed this post earlier.

There is no superiority contest. Facts speak for itself. There is no need to feel inferior for anyone. The problem is that people forget or are not being told about the contribution of Muhajirs to the country and racists people like Zulfiar Mirza do try to confuse people and people like him are unfortunate reality.

As to what I said in first post, you can appreciate why I said that. For Pakisan the matter was of survival in early years and Muhajirs did take the first responsibiliy on that.

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Re: PPP Sindh’s racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza’s remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

Do you think these 22 families came like what depicted in photographs I have posted? Jhoot par Jhoot bolay ja rahay ho. These 22 families were created by Ayub Khan to monopolize their businesses, as Ayub Khan was money collector from them. Most of these 22 families have businesess estabilihed in Karachi even before partition. Even for argument sake if your jhoot be accepted as truth, what about millions migrated from India, do you think they were relatives of these 22 families. Sharam karo bhai. Read as follows:

http://www.wikimir.com/22-familiesDr Mahboob ul Haq, Chief Economists, Planning Commission, told a meeting in Karachi on April 21, 1968 that economy of Pakistan had come to be dominated by 22 families who owned 66% of the total industrial assets and owned 87 per cent share in the country’s banking and insurance industry.

Prof Lawrence White who, at that time was working at the USAID office in Pakistan, measured the concetration of wealth on the basis of firms listed on Karachi Stock Exchange and found that 43 families or groups controlled 98% of 197 non-financial companies, accounting for 53% of the total assets. According to White, the top four (Saigols, Dawood, Adamjee and Amin) controlled 20% of total assets, the top ten families controlled one third of the total while the top 30 owned over half of the listed assets.

The 22 Families (Alphabetically)

Read more and please avoid posting lies here:

**Pakistan’s Economic Saga and 22 Families
**Pakistan’s economic saga, marked today by huge distortions and concentration of wealth and power in few hands can be studied in three phases beginning with post-independence period up to the seperation of East Pakistan and Z A Bhutto’s nationalization (1947-71), the senior Bhutto era (1971-77), and post Bhutto era comprising of Zia ul Haq’s status quo and two Nawaz Sharif governments, preceded and followed by two interregnnums of Benazir Bhutto. In the first phase, the emphasis of government policies was on increasing the size of the cake, rather than trying to distribute it equitably among the different segments of the Pakistan. “Accumulate, accumulate, thy is Prophet, thy is Moses” was given currency and Pakistan was portrayed as a country on way to become an Asian Tiger. Bank credits and industrial licenses were monopolised by a privileged commercial class and industries set up by government were divested in favour of big industrialists. The over-emphasis on GNP during Field Marshal Ayub Khan’s Decade of Development (1958-68) divided the society into privileged and under privileged and it was the iniquitous economic and regional development of this era which led to the explosive situation of the 1970’s culminating in the severance of Pakistan and induction into power os a socialist government of Z A Bhutto.

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^ So Pakistan and locals didn’t do anything for Muhajirs when they came here? Muhajirs didn’t came Bhookay Nangay, but they were victims of Sikhs & Hindu and majority lost their ppl and properties on their way and if locals didn’t financially help them, they must have morally supported them and show their consent to accommodate migrants.

Education before partition

At the time of partition there were 131 primary schools for boys & 58 for girls in Karachi and 24 High schools for boys & 19 for girls. There were colleges including Sindh Arts College (inaugurated in 1887), DJ College, NED Engineering College, Sindh Muslim Law College, Dow Medical College (inaugurated in 1946). For your information, Sindh University (which was then shifted to Jaamshoro) started its classes on April 13, 1947 in Ranchor Line Area of Karachi.

So this proves that before partition, Karachi’s ppl were not uneducated and education system was very much developed.

I’m repeating again and again that everyone contributed for independence & development of Pakistan and its very useless point that ppl from other parts of the country came here just for earning and they don’t contribute to the economy of the city. Don’t they pay taxes & other levies which others have to pay. Do they get free lunches without doing anything! :smack:

As far as your statement for videos is concerned, I say it your self-perception. My point for sharing these videos (which were already shared a week ago in another thread) was not to prove that Muhajirs destroyed the heritage, but my point was that ppl of Karachi (including all communities) didn’t own the city heritage as others (example citizen of Lahore) own. If you say reference to machinery was for Muhajirs only, then I already said that I don’t agree to consider Muhajirs as only contributory / Machinery for smooth running of Karachi. Everyone contributed and there is no question for comparing contribution. We should think over what this country has given to us before making huge statements of our own contribution just to prove our superiority over others.

PS: Plz read history before making statements like Karachi’s education system was under developed before partition.

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You are wasting your time by arguing with this guy who is in state of denial. You can not convince him as he has never seen Karachi before partition. He is blind believer of "Karachi Hum Ne Banaya":). Even after partition till first government of PPP, Karachi mostly retained its shape. Arguing with these guys like banging your head against wall. Save your efforts.

In the video Omar Jalil has perhaps forgotten that name of Elphinsten Street was changed to Zaibunissa street by the government of Ayub Khan in the 60's. Zaibunissa was his daughter, he used take her on foreign tours rather than his illeterate wife.:)

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Re: PPP Sindh's racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza's remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

u said it all

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Re: PPP Sindh's racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza's remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

Advice taken. Regarding Ayub Khan's daughter, these Generals did a lot for their daughters. Someone said in other thread that General Zia had a daughter, which was probably mentally retarded or so and for her he invited 'Shatrogun Sinha' from India. For Zaib u Nisa Street, I thought, it was probably on the name of princess Zaib U Nisa, daughter of Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, who also did poetry as ' Makhfi' and whose lover was burnt in a 'Daig' in order to hide from Aurangzeb. Anyway, Thanks all the ppl. I think, the thread has served more than its intended purpose and we should now move on without indulging into any further arguments.

PS: We all are Pakistani and we should live in harmony by forgetting cultural and other minor diffrences, respecting and tolerating each other to face the challenges.

Good Night! (For ppl in Pakistan)

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Re: PPP Sindh's racist leader Zulfiqar Mirza's remarks mocking ALL Urdu speaking peop

Khoji bhai,

Yar, I would just give up. They quote Ummat, that Jamti tool, a party that opposed Pakistan, and still causes all sorts of problems.

Mirza will keep his job, and many will treat him as a hero. Its all very sad. Our job is to provide 60% of the taxes, and not complain if nothing comes back us. To see people with less qualification run Jinnah Hospital, when our people have to find jobs in America. But if we complain, we are batta khors, terrorists and thugs. Yehi humara nasib hai.

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Sorry my mistake, according to Zaib-un-Nissa Hamidullah - Wikipedia. Rest about daughter of Ayub Khan, Nasim Ayub is true. He used to take her on foreign tours or meeting with head of states.

Zaibunissa wasZaibunnissa, Hamidullah (December 25, 1921 – September 10, 2000) was a pioneer of Pakistani literature and journalism in English, and also a pioneer of feminism in Pakistan, West Pakistan till 1971. She was Pakistan’s first female columnist (in English), editor, publisher and political commentator. Zaibunnisa Street in Karachi was named for her.