Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 3:11am

Are you sure about that? :D

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 3:18am

As I said before, there is no such thing called the Army Constitution. I have spent enough time in law school so I know what I'm talking about. Amy does not need any constitution for coups. Coups are ALWAYS illegal under any constitution, all army chiefs involved in coups are traitors under article 6th of the constitution & deserve to be hanged.

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 3:26am

Those laws predate the existing constitution which is the supreme law of the land, and therefore validity of which can be challenge. There are laws and ordinances on the books since British raj...does not mean they're applicable now, but the laws are still there.

firenze · February 22, 2009, 6:54am

I doubt it, you can confirm this with any MNA, Senator or on a good post in armed forces, their is Army Constitution on which every 4-star general have to take oath on !

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 7:43am

Well, I don't have to, but since you're convinced that there is such thing why don't informed us about it or post link to it?

The army's constitution spells GUN & whoever has gun will always have upper hand. Too many guns in too many hands is the reason why Pakistan is in $hit hole today.

BTW, what you're talking about in your previous post are PCOs (Provisional Constitution Orders) issued by coup makers going back to Zia's dictatorship. That amounts to nothing more than ransom note & has no legal standing whatsoever in any court of law. That is why Mushrraf should be arrested, tried for treason and hanged so in future generasl would think twice before venturing into politics, suspending the constitution or appointing themselves presidents.

champ · February 22, 2009, 7:49am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

^^ There are somethings which should not be in Public Knowledge , Y cant you understand this simple fact, & how much you know about Army to Challenge something that is Only Know by Army Personals ????

PS: you can assume whatever you want just to satisfy yourself, but it will not change the fact that , Army Act Exists....

dhanya_podena · February 22, 2009, 7:54am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

I have to agree with Shamraz here, there is no sych thing as constitution of army, unless Firenze is the only person who has been told about its existence. Countless books has been written abiout military and none ever mentions such a document.

dhanya_podena · February 22, 2009, 7:55am

Yes army act exists and is a known to everyone and is a public document, but Firenze claims that constitution of army is something different than army act.

champ · February 22, 2009, 7:56am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

Here it is , now i think you batter be quite & do some research before calming something.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Rise of Pakistan: New ammendments to Pakistan Army Act (1952)!

Pak: ‘Army Act amendments violate Constitution’

Now it is Proven that Army Act Exists, now you Try your Best to Prove that it Dose not, & if you cant Then Please dont interfere with something you dont know. Thanks

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 7:58am

Yes, indeed. Santa Claus & Tooth Fairy also exist. I have seen them both...after having few ... :D

champ · February 22, 2009, 7:59am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

[quote]
Yes army act exists and is a known to everyone and is a public document, but Firenze claims that constitution of army is something different than army act
[/quote]

I dont know from where you people get your Knowledge, ok let me tell you this simple logic.

Every Independent Organization has its own Constitution, & so does Army, there are somethings that cannot go in Public So it is forbidden to write or publish about them, If you have any one serving in the Army forces in a Good position you may ask him.

& as i said before you dont know that much about Pak Army to claim something.....

champ · February 22, 2009, 8:00am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

[quote]
Yes, indeed. Santa Claus & Tooth Fairy also exist. I have seen them both...after having few ...
[/quote]

So you totally Ignored my Post in which i have given links, Well DONE , what else i can say

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 8:04am

[quote=“champ, post:29, topic:196001”]

I know army act exists. That is not a secret & everyone knows about it. Army act and the army constitution are 2 different things.

BTW, you did not bother reading article on your last link form Indian website which says:

The whole point of that article is civilians being tried in military courts which violates Pakistani Constitution.

champ · February 22, 2009, 8:09am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

[quote]
The whole point of that article is civilians being tried in military courts which violates Pakistani Constitution.
[/quote]

Yes i have read it, & told it before , that Army is not bound to follow the Constitution of Pakistan , Bcoz that will bind him from Protecting the country on may ways, ........ si i guess you didn't read the previous posts...

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 8:15am

Don’t argue with me on constitutional matters. I make living doing this. Hope this helps you understand how it works.

[Chapter 2. Armed Forces] of [Part XII: Miscellaneous]](Chapter 2: "Armed Forces." of Part XII: "Miscellaneous")

Command of Armed Forces.
(1) The Federal Government shall have control and command of the Armed Forces.

[258A] (1A) Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing provision, the Supreme Command of the Armed Forces shall vest in the President.]

(2) The President shall, subject to law, have power-
(a) to raise and maintain the Military, Naval and Air Forces of Pakistan; and the Reserves of such Forces; [258B] [and]
(b) to grant Commissions in such Forces [258C] .]
[258D]
[258E] (3) The President shall, [258F] [in consultation with the Prime Minister], appoint- (a) the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee;
(b) the Chief of the Army Staff;
(c) the Chief of the Naval Staff; and
(d) the Chief of the Air Staff,
and shall also determine their salaries and allowances.]

Oath of Armed Forces.
Every member of the Armed Forces shall make oath in the form set out in the Third Schedule.

Functions of Armed Forces.
[259] (1)] The Armed Forces shall, under the directions of the Federal Government, defend Pakistan against external aggression or threat of war, and, subject to law, act in aid of civil power when called upon to do so.

[259A] (2) The validity of any direction issued by the Federal Government under clause (1) shall not be called in question in any court.

(3) A High Court shall not exercise any jurisdiction under Article 199 in relation to any area in which the Armed Forces of Pakistan are, for the time being, acting in aid of civil power in pursuance of Article 245:

Provided that this clause shall not be deemed to affect the jurisdiction of the High Court in respect of any proceeding pending immediately before the day on which the Armed Forces start acting in aid of civil power.

(4) Any proceeding in relation to an area referred to in clause (3) instituted on or after the day the Armed Forces start acting in aid of civil power and pending in any High Court shall remain suspended for the period during which the Armed Forces are so acting.]

champ · February 22, 2009, 8:32am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

[quote]
Don't argue with me on constitutional matters. I make living doing this. Hope this helps you understand how it works.
[/quote]

Same goes for you , Dont Argue with on military Matters, I havent wasted 5 years to see someone who is Practicing law, to tell me about what Army is ..............

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 8:48am

I know what army is & that is not the point of an argument. Simple fact of the matter is you're saying things that you can't back up. To make thing simple for you, tell me this:

1) Does army exists because of the country country exists because of the army?
2) Is army chief boss of a president or president is boss of an army chief?
3) Does president appoints army chief or army chiefs appoints president?
4) Who is the supreme commander of the armed forces (hint: read my previous post)?

:)

Shamraz_Khan · February 22, 2009, 9:21am

That is a ransom note issued by military dictator when he was holding country hostage at gun point. It has no legal standing in any court whatsoever. So, the question of it cancellation does not exists.

champ · February 22, 2009, 9:30am

Re: Powers of Army Chief & Blue Book

[quote]
That is a ransom note issued by military dictator when he was holding country hostage at gun point. It has no legal standing in any court whatsoever. So, the question of it cancellation does not exists.
[/quote]

As i said before Army is not bound to follow any order from any Normal gali Muhlahh Court, The only Court Army follows is Army Court, So you can say all you want about your own courts but that will not change the fact that they cant make Army do what they want...

firenze · February 22, 2009, 9:45am

Yeh right, no body was forcing whole civilian machinery, political parties, workers, civilians other departments & agencies to accept the Chief order's..

The reality is totally different, and you will see that until current Army chief don't voided the order, 3rd Nov actions will en tacked forever !