[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by M: *
Ok look we only follow Muhammad saw and we follow the Quran. ...
[/QUOTE]
Good for you and may Allah judge your faith and give you a place in Jannah in the after life.
The same instant Quran allows Christians to follow Injeel. If their faith digresses from what Allah sent them, then Allah would be their judge.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
Good for you and may Allah judge your faith and give you a place in Jannah in the after life.
The same instant Quran allows Christians to follow Injeel. If their faith digresses from what Allah sent them, then Allah would be their judge.
[/QUOTE]
No it does not, it actually asks them to quit their old religion and accept Islam because that is the final and complete book of Allah's religion. I am not saying that they will all go to hell, but just wanted to make it clear so people do not get the wrong impression.
In response to
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Antiobl: *
The same instant Quran allows Christians to follow Injeel. If their faith digresses from what Allah sent them, then Allah would be their judge.
[/QUOTE]
Kaleem responded
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
No it does not, ......
[/QUOTE]
Hmm! That negative response contradicts 3:84+3:85.
anti sahib, if that was the case than Why send Prophet :saw:? Did you ever stop to think about that. Do not take Quranic Ayas out of context my friend. Prophet Muhammad :saw: was sent to finalize Allah’s religion Islam, every religion before him became null and void…christians and jews were asked to accept Islam as their religion. If we go by your logic than he (Prophet:saw:) should not have preached to both groups.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Kaleem: *
..... Why send Prophet saw....
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For getting rid of MAToos (the exploiters of religion) from Khana Kaaba and bringing peace to the world.
Allah only knows more than that.
Since 3:84 and 3:85 are not sufficient for the Mullahs please call
1-800-Allah-Ji.
The same intolerance has already resulted in so much death and destruction in Pakistan. Would MAToo Munkees ever stop and think about their irrationality and intolerance towards other faiths?
Bombs in Shia mosques, harassment of Qadianis, and the killing of Christians, will not stop until the intolerant beardos are caged.
Christians say that Christ shall come back and rule a thousand years after the whole world becomes christian. Muslims believe that everyone shall become Muslims. The end result, a world war. Religion which was supposed to bring peace and brotherhood on earth, shall be the reason for the doom of this planet.
Faisal,
Thats a wierd logic you are following. Anything that Allah swt has affirmed in the Quran, it makes no sense to then say '... you know Allah is Rehman/Raheem and he will change his mind'. Do you also do this for the other side of the coin? Do you also say 'You know Allah is Al-Qahaar so he might change his mind and put all muslims in Hell'?
The truth is that everything in the Quran must be affirmed, so if we affirm that Allah will reward the believers and those who do good, "So whoever does righteous good deeds while he is a believer" (Surah Anbiya), it also means affirming the other side of the coin, as mentioned in a few posts above, that anyone who chooses other than to submit to Allah, will be one of the loosers.
Yes, there is no way of saying this about one individual, since Allah swt knows their condition best, but as for all of the disbelievers, then Allah has clearly explained what will happen to them.
This isn't a dawah technique here btw, so please not make it a case of "scaring" someone into islam.
Do then those who disbelieve think that they can take My slaves * as Auliyâ' besides Me? Verily, We have prepared Hell as an entertainment for the disbelievers (Al-Kahf 18:102)
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall We tell you the greatest losers in respect of (their) deeds? (Al-Kahf 18:103)
"Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life while they thought that they were acquiring good by their deeds! (Al-Kahf 18:104)
"They are those who deny the Ayât of their Lord and the Meeting with Him (in the Hereafter). So their works are in vain, and on the Day of Resurrection, We shall not give them any weight. (Al-Kahf 18:105)
"That shall be their recompense, Hell; because they disbelieved and took My Ayât and My Messengers by way of jest and mockery. (Al-Kahf 18:106)*
For a layman like me, this is what I see..
3- 4 billion people don't believe in Islam. Hence they will go to hell.
3-4 billion people don't practice Christianity. Hence they will go to hell.
Heaven must be a pretty desolate place.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ammarr: *
it makes no sense to then say '... you know Allah is Rehman/Raheem and he **will* change his mind'.
[/QUOTE]
Where did I say "he will"? I said, He is All Powerful, and He certainly has the power to do whatever He chooses. And wouldn't, therefore, part of His powers be to do whatever he wants with those who did not obey Him, or for whom He had previously said that He will punish?
Unless, ofcourse, YOU are limiting His Powers.
And, thus, the logical argument would be not to put ourselves in God's position to proclaim that hell-fire will be the place for those who have already died.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by antiobl: *
For getting rid of MAToos (the exploiters of religion) from Khana Kaaba and bringing peace to the world.
Allah only knows more than that.
Since 3:84 and 3:85 are not sufficient for the Mullahs please call
1-800-Allah-Ji.
The same intolerance has already resulted in so much death and destruction in Pakistan. Would MAToo Munkees ever stop and think about their irrationality and intolerance towards other faiths?
Bombs in Shia mosques, harassment of Qadianis, and the killing of Christians, will not stop until the intolerant beardos are caged.
[/QUOTE]
Anti yaar, I dont know how to reply to your hate filled venom. Quran is very clear about Islam being the final and the correct path to salvation. I am not preaching hate, I dont call for death and destruction for any one, I am simply telling you that do not spread rumors about Quran simply you have an axe to grind. All of these hate filled messages do not make you sound any different you profess to despise.
Dear Faisal,
Since none of us can claim to be GOd, so we all do not know how would GOD react on the day of judgement?
We know one thing that: ( a kind of turjuma from one of the Qurani Very common aayat)
God asked Hazrat ESSa "did you tell these people that you are GOD's Son"
He -Hazrat Essa replied " O GOD TOU tu diloun ka haal janta hai, tuj kou tu maloum hai ka mei ney ayssa nahe kaha. But you are Rahim , you are kareem, you are sea of rahmat---if you forgive them for that----
So this is what was the wish of hazrat essa for christian.
Now since no one of us is GOD we do not know? how would GOD react to this prayer of Hazrat Essa.
But we know GOD gives ajre resalat to all prophets.
So we can not say pass any comments on any one. Who knows? to whom he likes and who are the worst in GOD's eyes, from our world now. Who knows what would be his reaction on the day of judgement.
GOD has kept one day only for the day of judgement for all his cratures.
And this is one of the "ousoul la dine" to have believe in; to be muslim or momin.
No one knows and no one should know about GOD's Decisions prior to that time.
Since we should not forget it is his PRINCIPLE not anyone elses --------
If we do not believe in it (one day of judgement) , I can not say ----what kind of muslims are we.
So GOD MAY OR MAY NOT FORGIVE MOTHER TRESSA : HE KNOWS and only HE- almighty. We would know on the day of judgement.
Bye sokoon
Sokoon,
You have understood the point exactly right. :k:
with this theory expanded, we can say that since god says somethings and does other things, he can send musilms to hell just because he had a heart change. or may be he will send prophets to hell even though he promised them heaven.. does he not have power over that too? certainly, but it is just stupid for us to believe this notion that allah somehow has change of minds. that does not happen, what he said must come true and he has written hell for the people who die without believing in him after the truth reached them. you guys who are little too sensitive and want to believe in the western mantra that every one goes to heaven because its just not nice to think ppl can go to hell thats fine with me but thats not what islam says.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
with this theory expanded, we can say that since god says somethings and does other things, he can send musilms to hell just because he had a heart change. or may be he will send prophets to hell even though he promised them heaven...
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ThandyMazaq, it seems you are being facetious or either are unnecessarily insistent that you can say no wrong. Have you not heard that Allah says that I do not want to punish my creations? Allah will look at any and all good deeds from all of His creations to see if He can show His mercy. I believe our God is Benevolent. If you think otherwise, thats up to you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
ThandyMazaq, it seems you are being facetious or either are unnecessarily insistent that you can say no wrong. Have you not heard that Allah says that I do not want to punish my creations? Allah will look at any and all good deeds from all of His creations to see if He can show His mercy. I believe our God is Benevolent. If you think otherwise, thats up to you.
[/QUOTE]
you guys take my words wrong, did i ever said something without proof from quran? i mean if we are told that what is in quran might be wrong, then the entire point of practicing islam becomes useless. that is just too much to bear for me. all four madhabs claim that those ayats that have been qouted above are clear in the message that non muslims who reject the truth will go to hell..if some one just comes up and tells me it might not be the case then it is like quran is just a history book with just some stories of the past and does not hold any power as it does in reality. so thats my point, i do not deny that allah has power over any thing, but since he has said that he will not forgive shirk, who are we to doubt his claim?
a brother reminded me of these ayahs in quran and inshalalh i want to ask every one's views regarding these ayahs. you dont even have to beleive in hadiths to get the message that comes across....
2:217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
7:147 Those who reject Our signs and the meeting in the Hereafter,- vain are their deeds: Can they expect to be rewarded except as they have wrought?
9:17 It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit:** In Fire shall they dwell. **
18:105 They are those who deny the Signs of their Lord and the fact of their having to meet Him (in the Hereafter): vain will be their works, nor shall We, on the Day of Judgment, give them any weight
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
i mean if we are told that what is in quran might be wrong, then the entire point of practicing islam becomes useless.
[/QUOTE]
Did anyone say that Quran is wrong? No. So your point is moot. What we are saying is that it is not our position to be declaring anyone is going to hell, when that someone is in no position to do anything about it. That is for Allah to decide.
It is decidely more unfortuate, if we pass such rigid comments about someone who is already dead. If you had said this to someone who is alive and the intention is to bring them to Islam, its one thing. Once someone has died their matter is with Allah, and Allah alone.
but is it not in quran that states that kafirs who deny truth will go to hell “AFTER they DIE” so if we believe otherwise we deny quran , on the contrary, live kafirs can repent and become better muslims than us, so we cant make judgement on live kafirs that he is going to hell…hind bin utba repented and became a muslimah, so allah forgave her past sins even though she did the horrible act of mutliating the uncle of the rasul allah :saw:…i mean i am not criticizing mother teresa in her worldy things, she did great stuff, but once she dies then the ruling of quran applies on her.
Originally posted by antiobl:
Here is what Quran says:
I believe
I believe in Allah,
His angels (plural)
His Books (more than one)
His Messengers (plural)
And I
do not discriminate against any of the messengers.
In my heart tells me.
Yes, I believe in god, his angels
His books, Talmud, Bible, Gospel, Quran...etc...
The message sent.
And Allah (The one True God) does not discriminate against any of the messengers. He sent his message to all peoples in the way they can accept and understand. Be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc.....