Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
niksik life3 meen bhi post kareen, humeen apni dukaan bhi chalani hy :ASA:
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
I would like to live with my inlaws for sometime after marriage, and i would work hard and making it work.
I like the joint family system.
For me an ideal situation would be to have my own bedroom and lounge with a tv and stuff but to have a joint family kitchen and dining room.
THe only thing im scared of, when i do get married, is my in laws telling me not to do this and not to do that.
I would still like to be able to spontaneously go out if i want to go to the gym or whatever.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
firstly, whenever i have seen kids getting married, usually their parents arent bed-ridden. they are still fairly young and healthy. most times there isnt even a conversation of them living together.
my FIL lives an hour away from us close to his work. we live close to our work.. so it would be retarded to get a house in the middle to live together because it would be inconvenient for both parties. secondly, my FIL himself has said that a couple needs to live alone atleast initially to get to understand each other and not have any issues from people outside. third, forget about living close to us, my FIL wants to move to a state down south, hundreds of miles away from us in a couple of yrs.
so pretty much everyones situation is different. my FIL is pretty healthy and it hasnt even been a year since we have been married so yeh, if we had to live with ANYONE i would be upset (unless the elderly was sick). i do want for us to live alone/ independently etc for a few years before we have any responsibilities. we dont even want kids yet so why would we want to live with our parents?
and if u dont understand where a woman is comign from when she says she doesnt wanna live with others (i mean parents and inlaws alike) specially when the elders are healthy as a horse then i feel bad for ur wife. let me tell u why i feel this way.
- i wake up when i want to.
- i make food whenever i want to.
- if i dont want to cook, i go out or order out.
- i eat whatever i want to without other people saying anything about it.
- i wear whatever i want to
- i do whatever i want to, whenever i want to
- i make my own schedule, ill study when i want to, ill play games, ill go out with my friends when i want to, without having to tell anyone my schedule
- if my place is messy, no one is gonna try to yell at me to clean it.
- if the dishes are left in the sink cuz im feeling lazy and will clean them tomorrow, no one is gonna think that i left it for them to clean
- just because i didnt make food doesnt mean i hate someone and want them to starve or want them to cook for themselves or for me
the list could go on. yes there are a lot of misunderstandings specially in the beginning.
if however my parents or my FIL were sick, i wouldnt have a problem having them live with me.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
One size doesn't fit all.
In Pakistan, I have seen many families (especially Memons in Karachi) where the entire khandaan lives in the same house. Father, mother, their kids (married or not), their grand kids - the whole kit and kaboodle. Daughters do move out after marriage. All the sons join in the family business and live with their parents. May be this works for some folks. Space can be an issue. A husband, wife and two kids are given one bedroom to live together. Ouch!
In these situations, piyaar barhta hai ya fasaad.. I dunno. But ppl live like that. And in that society, it is completely acceptable. I have even seen one older guy, whose all THREE wives, and kids from all of them were living in the same roof. Talk about BIG LOVE! :-)
By the way, the basic premise is a bit cheeky. When the kids are getting married, usually at that age, parents are not about to die of old age or diseases. A 40 or 50-something couple is still in the prime of their life. In many cases, parents may actually appreciate a bit of a space too and want their kids to be independent and successsful (translate: happy). However, as parents age, this really becomes a real issue. I agree with Janwar, that abandoning your parents in their old age, when they need you the most - in the name of "privacy" is quite callous.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
Let me start by saying that i do not have a problem staying with the inlaws if need be although i might dread it a bit due to the mere loss of my independence (by that i mean thefactors sumorani has stated). We live in the US and hubs family is in Pakistan. They visited for our wedding and stayed a couple of months. And i will say taht if i didnt have a strong enough relationship with my husband, it would have been real hard adjusting to married life with his parents especially MIL in the picture. She is not evil or anything, Alhamd but just had different ideas of an ideal bahu. And i came froma totally differnt background and it was really hard for me to adjust.
The first few months were really hard and i missed my parents ALOT which i never thought i would mostly because of the attitude MIL had towards certain things. But if we were to do it all over now, i wouldnt have a problem with them visiting now since i know them more and voice my concerns over something myself instead of crying over the situation.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
Something I'd like to point out here...is this whole "abandonment" issue. I have yet to meet anyone - desi, gori or otherwise - who would abandon a parent in need. Its entirely a different issue when you have parent(s) who need assistance.
The majority of complaints against living with in-laws have always been when the in-laws are healthy and active and completely able to provide and care for themselves on their own. Which means that the new wife basically becomes their servant when she moves in.
Dont take that as a critisizm, some like that living arrangement and I would like it too if I lived in Pak...it doesnt work well in US though and even in Pak, it isnt the ideal situation for everyone.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
Most of the replies depict the insecurities and inlaws-are-evil mentality. Some points that I picked up, apparently some of us jumped in to reply without considering the original post where I addressed those points already.
Wife's parents are equally important. And like I said, ideally if sons take care of their parents, daughters should not have to worry about it as much. However, if a couple only has daughters, then the daughters together with their husbands should take care of the parents.
And I said, if it is not working out between inlaws and wife, then naturally it is the only sensible solution to be able to live a sane life.
And perhaps it is relative to our own beliefs and perception about our parents. Some of us, as I have seen in one or two posts, have a rather bitter relationship with our parents so it is a relief to grow up and leave the house. This is quite unfortunate.
And perhaps my concept was based on my experience with my parents, and my relationship with them. But I was right, a clear majority of those advocating this 'freedom' is women. Is there a chance that if they manage to get over these insecurities, they could actually live normally with their husband's parents?
And those who think if they took care of their husband's parents would become their servants, your thought process needs serious repairs.
Alright this is going to be a long one.
This one concept/thought bugs me big time. I have seen so many advocates of post marriage independence, interestingly nearly all of them being women, who believe and preach that a couple should move out of the man's parents house and live independently. The idea is that this gives the couple more independence and privacy, and the usual in-laws politics doesnt happen that way. Unluckily, I haven't come across very many women who believe that a couple should live with the man's parents, for a range of reasons that they come up with.
This concept bugs me too.
If you want to look after your parents, then make a separate portion in the house for them(sitting area, room, kitchen etc).
Why do you have to deny your wife her rights of a separate house?
If you are man enough to get married, then you should be man enough to buy a house which is your wifes islamic right, if you cant afford a house, then build a separate section, if you cant do that then make sure she has her privacy, this is not a feminist concept, it is basic islam.
You should know what your duties are before nikkah.
Look at sahabahs and the lives of the pious, have ever heard of them living in joint family systems?
They looked after their parents as well. But nowhere did they abuse their wives islamic right of her own house.
Other than that, i think marry someone who has no problems living with your parents.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
ditto to what djmi said. Jaanwar not sure why it is stuck in your head that living seperately means "abandoning" the parents. From what I have read on these posts, it seems as if you are living "away" from your parents for whatever reasons..work/school whatever. But you are away right! Just like that other people have reasons. It is not always sensible to have everyone under one roof, better relationships are maintained from a distance. Also I disagree with this comment:
And those who think if they took care of their husband's parents would become their servants, your thought process needs serious repairs.
I am sure this thought process is based on experience or experience of others. I myself have seen that MIL does everything on her own and her son dearest doesn't do a darn thing. Then she gets her son married, and suddenly expects the DIL to take care of most household chores if not all. Not only that but some MIL provide constant criticism and no appreciation, and even if something is slightly off, always talk badly about DIL to their sons....etc. So it's best to avoid such a situation. And even in families where MIL have best of intentions, living together can create many misunderstandings where the hubby is then stuck in the middle. Why wait to have relations tarnished & THEN move out. It's best to live seperately in the beginning but STILL take care of the parents...etc.
Unless of course the son can afford to have 2 seperate accomodations, or even seperate space for his wife/kid's privacy. And YES the wife has a right to her own space. A good friend of mine is married to a physician, he CAN afford to move out etc, but didnt want to leave his parents (even though he has 2 brothers still living at home. It is such a privacy issue for her, esp as she is a hijabi, so really it's her in hijab 16-18 hours of the day. How is that fair to her? A man must be able to sensibly balance his duties towards his parents and duties towards wife and understand how to take care of each.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
I dont have a problem with the joint family system at all. In fact, its actually a great concept in my opinion. Just as Gina said, its a blessing to have buzurgs in your home giving you the guidance you need everyday of your life. I do not view my inlaws as evil and I hope that day never comes in my life.
However, I am one of those that comes from a family of only girls. My take on this is, what about my parents? Dont they matter? Havent they sacrificed just as much as his? Who says one is more important then the other and one needs more then the other? No one. All I ask is that he treat my parents with the same kindness I give his...and help me take care of them just as I would help him. Thats it.
Something I'd like to point out here...is this whole "abandonment" issue. I have yet to meet anyone - desi, gori or otherwise - who would abandon a parent in need. Its entirely a different issue when you have parent(s) who need assistance.
The majority of complaints against living with in-laws have always been when the in-laws are healthy and active and completely able to provide and care for themselves on their own. Which means that the new wife basically becomes their servant when she moves in.
Dont take that as a critisizm, some like that living arrangement and I would like it too if I lived in Pak...it doesnt work well in US though and even in Pak, it isnt the ideal situation for everyone.
I absolutely agree . Living on your own doesn't equate to abandonment. Sons move out of their parents homes for variety of other reasons too but when it comes to living seperately with wife it becomes an issue of abandonment and whatnot.
... And those who think if they took care of their husband's parents would become their servants, your thought process needs serious repairs.
ok, so lets get to the repairs here!
My point of view is that IF the parents are physically fit, healthy and able to provide for themselves then there is no need for the son to bring in his wife to live with them. In a good number of cases where the new wife is brought into a situation like this, she is the one expected to do the cooking, cleaning, shopping etc. "Servant" is a harsh word I admit....but really thats what it can seem like to the new bride. Unless of course, she is asked and is wanting to live in this type of situation. Those wives who complain about it are typically the ones who do not have a say - their husband puts his foot down, says we live here and thats that.
...so before you respond, remember that we are not talking about parents who are elderly or infirm or in financial need, we're talking about parents who are fit and able to live on their own yeah?
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
I agree with you Jaanwar. I have 3 brothers and as much as I don’t expect ALL of them to stay with my parents after they get married (as there would be issues of space.. heck, we do not live in mansions), I would expect atleast 1 of them to stay with my parents. The reason for that is, well my parents have spent their whole lives in a home full of their children.. always so many people about. Now, I know that if my parents were to live on their own, they would be able to manage alongside eachother Alhumdulillah, BUT they would feel lonely and they would prefer having someone live with them.. it would make them happy.. so if all my brothers would want to move out in the future, no one will stop them but personally I would’t be happy and I know my parents wouldn’t deep down, though they would never say it.
As for me, I wouldn’t mind the joint family system and WOULD live with in-laws in the future. The main reason for that is because of what I said above.. I don’t want my bro and future-bhabhi to move out of MY parents house.. so I wouldn’t think of my future-hubby’s relationship with HIS parents as any different or less important. Btw, having said this, it’s not wrong for a couple to move out if they are having SERIOUS problems with the in-laws and the distance would actually do their relationship a lot of good..
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
...if you want to marry someone who will live with and take care of your (fit, active and healthy) parents....you need to ASK the person you intend to marry if this is an agreeable situation to them and if this is how they want to live!!!!!!!! Otherwise it will NOT be an agreeable situation!!!!!!!!
Those who want the extended family situation here...I havent seen even one of you put this down as a required question for a potential rishta, or even mention it as being important. Its the most important of questions if this is what you want!
Okay, forget about the whole evil MIL or DIL situation as reason for having a separate home. I think the main reason a couple should live on their own in the early days of their marriage is because both the husband and wife are new to the marital relationship (doesn't matter how long you dated - living together is a whole new ball game). The couple needs time away without the influence of others to get to used to living with one another and to adjust to one another's temperment and lifestyles.
If the DIL moves into the existing family structure - she is the new factor. Any changes in the existing family dynamic get attributed to her (and more often than not it's the bad changes - though many fairminded families will give credit to a good DIL) - because the husband's family is already used to one another's habits and temperments. In this situation, the DIL needs to mould herself to fit in to her husband's home - it requires her to change. If she doesn't want to change, she's considered inflexible. If she changes too much - she's not true to herself. The DIL feels like she makes all of the effort and then questions what she gets in return.
After having lived in her parent's home where she lived under her parents' rules, she expected that after marriage she could manage her own household and set her own rules. When she moves in with her in-laws - she doesn't get to do that - the household and its routine is already in place. And there is a BIG difference between a a DIL moving into her in-laws home versus the in-laws moving in with the couple - it goes to whose household it is and who gets to set the rules. Ideally both would consider it their own home - but that's not always the case - see reason stated above.
Children have not what I would consider an obligation (this sounds forced upon), but a responsibility to their parents and they should care for them in their older years. But parents have an equal responsibility to ensure that their children are happy and well-settled in their married lives - which means compromise on both sides.
There are very few truly evil/bad people out there who revel in making others unhappy. If both parties in the relationship treat each other with respect they will get respect in return.
Great points! :k:
What if the wife lives with her in-laws and her brother in-law? There might be a time when she is alone in her in-laws home with her brother-in-law.
"It was narrated from Uqbah Bin Amir [may Allah be pleased with him] that Allah’s Messenger صلی اللہ علیہوسلم* said, “Beware of entering upon women.” A man from the Ansar said, “O Messenger of Allah! What about the in-law?” He said, “The in-law is death.”*
[Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim]
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) warned against the husband’s relatives who are not mahrams to the wife entering upon her. It was reported from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Beware of entering upon women.” A man from among the Ansaar said: “O Messenger of Allaah, what about the brother-in-law?” he said: “The brother-in-law is death.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4934; Muslim, 217
Both my parents and in-laws encouraged us to move into our own home and enjoy our new lives together. This doesn’t mean that they or we were selfish in doing so. Even scholars have advised that after marriage, the husband and wife should live in a separate home if it is possible.
Also, the MIL/ DIL conflicts have been going on for centuries. It's not easy for every wife to live with her in-laws just as it wouldn't be easy for a Husband to live with his. When living with in-laws you can't always dictate changes in the way the household is run.
In your own home, you can cook what you want, order a takeaway when you want, copulate with your spouse whenever and wherever you want, re-arrange the living room furniture anytime, do the laundry on the weekend, go out for a late-night movie etc. A wife can run her own home according to her own wishes and feel like Queen of her home! You have full privacy especially during pregnancy. No one knows how many times you are throwing up or how often you have to go to your room to breastfeed.
Of course there are many benefits of living with in-laws. The company of your elders in the house itself is reassuring. Your elders protect you from worries and provide you with moral support. They help to baby-sit your children and take care of the household.
But we don't have to live with our in-laws after marriage. Taking care of elders is another topic, which of course is our moral responsibility. No elder in my family has ever been neglected in anyway in their old age. It is not wrong if you live in your own home. It is a personal choice. Everyone's situation and circumstances are so different.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
this is such a weird thread. Not all parents are alike, not all household are run in the same way, not all parents require consistent attention, not all parents make reasonable in laws and most of all there is nothing uniform in the world so why on earth apply a uniform scenario to a situation that could be diverse so very many people. This is the sort of thing people should sort out before marriage, dont like the idea of leaving parents for your reasons find a woman who is willing to go ahead with your plan.
Some people marry according to the wishes of their parents , and their parents choose an abominble piece who then doesnt blend in, children get caught in the middle later on and everyone had their say, so why should the children suffer the tension? Some people marry against the wishes of parents and expects things to fall into place one the step is taken. Some people have parents who have been abusive to each other and children, i cant imagine why they would expect their wives if they could afford to move in separate place. Sometimes the domestic atmosphere of each partner is very different and they cannot get used to the inlaws, if its either divorce or moving nearby its upto them.Sometimes its long family history track (given that pakistanis marry within extended family frequently) that makes is inevitable.
I have seen so many guys staying abroad while studying or earning or even wasting time but once they are wed its turning the back on their parents. Unfortunately i havent seen many guys have personally taking care of their parents, they expect the wives to do the job. That then later on snow balls into demand of separate house.
Re: Post marriage independence, privacy or abandoning your parents?
and ofcourse most of the people who disagree with the joint sysetm are women. they are the one who have to make adjustments. In families where there are no sons, even the nicest of guys doesnt move in with in laws.
Parents would always encourage you to move, it's not that they're healthy and fit.. when they're old..they're lonely. I would never be able to face Allah if I asked my husband to arrange for a seperate place.. and if I didn't take care of his parents.. the least you can do is be there.
Parents in old-age (whether it's yours or his) need people to talk to and a sense of belonging more than anything.. they deserve having their grandchildren around.
I'm aware it's different for everyone, many issues..