Eventually the world will end up having enough of Pakistan’s double deals and some drastic action will be taken. I am not saying the Americans are right and that their WOT line is the correct one but they are giving aid to Pakistan for a reason. It is quite clear rogue elements which are quite powerful are making it hard for the Americans to get their money’s worth. Western countries will stop trusting Pakistan altogether.
Pakistan has been the biggest victim in the WOT but is that the Americans fault OR the fault of our own intelligence agencies who use these proxies and their own people are killed, alongside foreign troops and innocent Afghans.
OBL could not have lived there without someone knowing. These someones must have been very powerful. They must belong to the Army/ISI - which are the most powerful organisations in Pakistan. If rogue elements are using these proxies to kill their own people in various bazaars then they should be executed. Too many innocent Pakistanis have been killd and elements in the Army/ISI are looking more and more guilty - if the official version of events are to be believed of course.
The West and other aligned countrieswill eventually cut the cords with Pakistan and if those elements in the ISI/Army do not cut links totally with these fundo groups then we will almost certainly see an end to Pakistan as we know it. It will almost certainly be split as a country. If ISI/Army support to fundo groups stop they will wither away. Splitting Pakistan would mean the Taliban would lose a major backer.
Eventually the world will end up having enough of Pakistan's double deals and some drastic action will be taken. I am not saying the Americans are right and that their WOT line is the correct one but they are giving aid to Pakistan for a reason. It is quite clear rogue elements which are quite powerful are making it hard for the Americans to get their money's worth. Western countries will stop trusting Pakistan altogether.
Pakistan has been the biggest victim in the WOT but is that the Americans fault OR the fault of our own intelligence agencies who use these proxies and their own people are killed, alongside foreign troops and innocent Afghans.
OBL could not have lived there without someone knowing. These someones must have been very powerful. They must belong to the Army/ISI - which are the most powerful organisations in Pakistan. If rogue elements are using these proxies to kill their own people in various bazaars then they should be executed. Too many innocent Pakistanis have been killd and elements in the Army/ISI are looking more and more guilty - if the official version of events are to be believed of course.
The West and other aligned countrieswill eventually cut the cords with Pakistan and if those elements in the ISI/Army do not cut links totally with these fundo groups then we will almost certainly see an end to Pakistan as we know it. It will almost certainly be split as a country. If ISI/Army support to fundo groups stop they will wither away. Splitting Pakistan would mean the Taliban would lose a major backer.
Quite scary assessment and who knows it may transpired in to reality (God forbid) as Senators here are talking about halting aid to Pakistan and pin drop silence by Kiani and ISI chief.
Pakistan can potentially pull strings effectively in Afghanistan and the Americans know it. Supporting fundos is terrible for domestic stability but apparently the Pakmil/establishment is paranoid about its "strategic depth" given the way Afgans behave -- turning to Soviets at some point, and maybe India next.
Pakistan itself has a fair amount of strategic importance and at least in the near term it would be disastrous for all players to see the country "split"/implode.
Yes, someone in there is playing double games, but is clearly beyond government's influence. The west itself prefers dealing directly with the military than the government, thereby creating a feeling of superiority over the civilian government in the establishment/military. A strong civilian setup would ensure greater transparency and more consistency in applying a strategic policy. In a way, all of this can be related to military dominance over all else in Pakistan, where even your intelligence is under the military rather than civilians.
Yes, Pak gets aid, but that is probably a fraction of the opportunity cost of this whole adventure to Pakistan, and most of it goes to the military anyway. It's a really loose-loose situation orr Pak.
There are too many misgivings related to the strategic policy in the wole region in Pak, to get the max cooperation, they need to take everyone on board.
Yes, the relationship with west will be strained but global dynamics have altered in the recent years, and as I said, Pakistan has a certain strategic importance though inept as it's leadership is, and the west knows that.
The core issue is that low level military officers and soldiers are being sent to their deaths and thousands of civilians are being blown up by terrorists while some top ranking military and/or civilian officials are getting paid millions to play their double games. What a disgusting state of affairs.
Pakistan's strategic importance is nothing if internal rebellions and ethnic nationalism is fermented. Maybe we overestimate how important it is. Elements in Pakistan are quite clearly supporting the fundos. These elements are being quite costly and the media campaign has been underway against Pakistan not since May 1, 2011 but since the year 2001. If supporters of Fundos cant be stopped they will deal with Pakistan itself which is being dubbed an untrustable state in all but quite clear words.
What is Pakistans strategic importance if it cant detect foreign helicopters and stop drone attacks? Extremism in Afghanistan will vanish if Pakistan stop supporting it. The world knows this and the world will eventually act. No one would have guessed what would have happened in LIbya 2days before it did. Pakistan is the biggest victim in the WOT simply because of elements within our Army/ISI which do not care one bit about the human lives lost.
Thousands of people have died all over Pakistan because of the stupid games that have been played. There are plenty of things to blame the USA for thats for sure but there are just as many things to blame Pakistan for.
Pakistan cannot afford to mess around with the world's powers. They have to realise that the nuclear installations are exposed and if they are taken out as a punishment it will be very embarrassing.
Pakistan is **one short false step **from very serious global action against it.
I really hope people understand this. All pretense better stop.
We are actually sitting on a time bomb. If God forbid something happens in USA, Europe or India, I don't want to even imagine the possible scenarios Pakistan may be facing. However people are just collateral damage in all this scenario with nothing in their power as you are suggesting. I hope their is a reawakening and realization in the army about all this dangerous situation, and the consequences it can create for the poor people of Pakistan. I agree with your final conclusion that all this madness should stop, and we should not protect any kind of terrorist whosoever. The pictures of mullah rallies in support of Bin Laden being carried in all the global media are not really doing any good to the perception of Pakistan.
You can remember.
I often said that
Ab yeh aik bonon ka mulk hay.
اب یہ ایک بونوں کا ملک ہے
I always talked about Boots and Takht e Lahore
Time is telling you my truth because that was from my heart.
I am myself living under threat of life since years.
I knew them because I face them.
Time to admit our faults.
Ask for reforms and honesty otherwise finish this drama .
We are no more a nation.
That's not a very accurate assessment.
Yes, the relationship with west will be strained but global dynamics have altered in the recent years, and as I said, Pakistan has a certain strategic importance though inept as it's leadership is, and the west knows that.
do we have NDTV onboard?
I don't think you understand what global action means. Whatever "strategic importance" there was has evaporated in view of recent (not just OBL) events. Understand this - your country is right now a step out on the wrong side of the line. Wake up before it is too late.
Pakistan is **one short false step **from very serious global action against it. .
No. It's not. "Global" action has only ever been taken against weak countries. That's why Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya find themselves staring down the wrong end of a barrel, but North Korea, Syria, and Iran end up getting slaps on the wrist by comparison.
Pakistan has many issues going on right now, but external threats are not amongst them. The only enemy Pakistan faces, or potentially faces, is within, not without. There is not a country in the world with the appetite right now to take military action against Pakistan, while we have enough powerful friends to minimise and negate any other type of action.
Pakistan is **one short false step **from very serious global action against it.
I really hope people understand this. All pretense better stop.
That entirely depends on the Chinese willingness to loose strategic assets and projects within Pakistan. At this juncture: ain't gonna happpen bub.
Second, exactly what action? Dismantle the elements in the PakMil that actually are fighting terrorism? Thousands of troops dead, for what? The fact is, you Indians need to realize that Pakistan is a player in this game, as flawed as it is. India is not. So be a good boy and let the men work this out. You kids go play fantasy somewhere else.
No. It's not. "Global" action has only ever been taken against weak countries. That's why Afghanistan and Iraq and Libya find themselves staring down the wrong end of a barrel, but North Korea, Syria, and Iran end up getting slaps on the wrist by comparison.
Pakistan has many issues going on right now, but external threats are not amongst them. The only enemy Pakistan faces, or potentially faces, is within, not without. There is not a country in the world with the appetite right now to take military action against Pakistan, while we have enough powerful friends to minimise and negate any other type of action.
I think recent events perhaps should make us pause and rethink about the actual strength of the military. A more plausible reason for not attacking Pakistan is that it simply makes no sense from their pov: if the problem is internal terrorists, then how the hell would eliminating even a malfunctioning state and military aparatus that is demonstrably involved in fighting AQ and the Taliban be of any help?
Remember Pakistan's Government as an official policy does not harbor terrorism or provides safe harbor to terrorists. So any International action are sanctions are unlikely.
Pakistani Governments ties to terrorists of the world cannot be proven by any means. Pakistan has captured , killed and handed over terrorists as an official policy. Some rouge elements in any sector of government, military or political leadership cannot be labeled as official policy of a sovereign country.
I think recent events perhaps should make us pause and rethink about the actual strength of the military. A more plausible reason for not attacking Pakistan is that it simply makes no sense from their pov: if the problem is internal terrorists, then how the hell would eliminating even a malfunctioning state and military aparatus that is demonstrably involved in fighting AQ and the Taliban be of any help?
What recent event? The "secret" raid on Bin Laden? When a 40 minute gunfight and helicopter raid a kilometer away from an active military base does not draw any response at all, you can be sure that a cover up is in progress.
I don’t believe that the US is telling the truth on a lot of things about this operation, especially about Pakistan not playing any role in this (or having no knowledge of it). Similarly I don’t believe the Pakistani political & military establishment when they deny any role, for if they accepted that they did play a part there would be even worse political consequences for them, especially with the Mullahs taking to the streets in large numbers.
We will probably learn more in the coming weeks and months, but at the end this ‘game’, nothing is going to happen to Pakistan in the long term i.e. any cutting of aid, sanctions etc; we have actually been through worse (1971) and survived.
The reason being Afghanistan – the US has quite clearly lost the war there and the ‘victory’ over Bin Laden makes it much easier for them to withdraw sooner than previously planned. Calls in this regard are already coming from prominent US politicians and commentators, something which the US right-wing Republicans (Neo-Cons) are probably seething with anger over privately, but dare not challenge Obama as they have lost their ‘casus belli’ (justification) for the Afghan war.
Pakistan is absolutely vital in the US plans to exit Afghanistan, because as the ongoing negotiations with the Taliban indicate (Pakistani) “strategic depth” will be re-established to ensure a stable Afghanistan after the US leaves.
@mAd_ScIeNtIsT: 'Global Action' does not have to be some country coming and bombing Pakistan or invading it. Pakistan is very very dependent on a number of other countries for very critical needs. You can rely on China to some level but that level is fast approaching. Nobody is interested in actually invading or bombing Pakistan since there is nothing in it for them to gain!