poor people have feelings too?

Lifestyle Relationships
1

ok.. now this is kind of a delicate topic and I might get labelled a rude ******* for writing this but I really don’t understand the following phenomenon. so, maybe someone can help me understand this..

now, people have kids for some reasons - I don’t know what they would be but I’m sure they must be based on love and all the other good stuff. but speaking from a more practical POV, having a kid is a big responsibility and needs a lot of maturity and some level of financial planning. if you’re going to bring another life in this world, you would do that because you want to make a positive impact on this world by bringing up a good (whatever your definition of that is) human being. so, you would plan to educate them, inculcate into them your morals, and possibly your religious belief system etc etc..

I just heard that someone I know had a kid. now, this family happens to have a history of illiteracy, idiocy, total lack of educational achievement and leeching off of others and the trend has Mashallah continued for two generations now. And will seemingly continue courtesy of a third generation addition to the family. I know or knew the father somewhat. he’s one of the most assbackward people I ever had the misfortune of knowing. his father threw him into a madrassah when he was like two or three. he finished Hifz when he was like 15. took him more than 10 years… needless to say he has no “real” education and hence, no job. got married when he hit the mid twenties. nine months later, the first son is born. this man has no plans for his own life except for leeching off his somewhat better off acquaintances. wtf is he going to do for his kid? he has no source of income. he has no job with no plans of getting one either.

I know someone must just be dying to tell me that poor, uneducated people have a right to live and of course breed as they wish. but I just wanna know what was the thought process of this particular gentleman when he decided to bring a pure, innocent life into this world and deny him any chances of making something out of himself by fathering him. I know this sounds incredibly rude and mean. hey maybe I’m just a prick. but what is another illiterate, ultra-religious, closed-minded, non-achiever going to add to this world and Pakistan in particular?

lastly, I’d like to apologize to any parents or parents to be on this forum. I hope you will know that I, of course, did not mean this for any of them. but I just wanna know when people have ten kids without adequate sources of income and any plans to educate them, what exactly they are thinking. :flower1:

ps. thank God, we don’t have a formal peer-based rating system at GS. otherwise… :smiley:

2

You never know what's in store for the new-born. Don't judge right away. Some of the most successful people in the history have come from the slums.

As for the father, well, since you said he's the most 'assbackward' person you know, what else did you expect.

And what do you expect by opening a thread on this topic anyway? This has been going on forever and will continue until education really makes an impact.

3

its ironic that its these very people that believe that one should produce as many offspring as possible, and abhor the concept of family planning.

4

Humsa, it's not about this particular kid, it is about all such kids who're born to parents who can't take care of even themselves financially. the kid could go on to become a big success (and for his sake I hope he does) but he will have fought harder than most other kids to get the right opportunities and he should not have to etc etc. no?

what I expected by opening this thread was what everyone expects when they open a thread here - other people's input and opinions. I wish we could accomplish something by posting here but we don't and we prolly can't either. your point about education is very valid of course. :-)

5

sigh

So what's the solution? Education, yes. But how do we go about it?

6

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
its ironic that its these very people that believe that one should produce as many offspring as possible, and abhor the concept of family planning.
[/QUOTE]

ravage, sorry for being such a blonde but which people are you talking about? the father or me?

7

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Hum Sa Ho To Samne Aaye: *
*sigh

So what's the solution? Education, yes. But how do we go about it?
[/QUOTE]

I have two ideas:

1) implement laws which dictate minimum education and income expected of folks before they can be parents, otherwise you can't have kids? and maybe put together a chart which would spell out how many kids you can have depending on which income and education class you fall in much like how tax brackets work? I like it.

2) I'll go open schools in Pak and you can send me money? I like this one too.

8

A proper tax system without any loopholes. Another solution is to send me to a law school and I'll come fight for my people.

9

:flower1: hmmm. i thought about this when i read it. Not to sound like i am always trying to disagree with someone or the other on gupshup, ‘but’ - um wouldn’t that be too restrictive in the sense of too much government inteference. What would be the cut-off income level? My only problem with that is… i know poor parents who have raised morally-upright individuals, and rich parents who have raised pure idiots as kids (sorry, no offense to anyone). Having a minimum cut-off income level as a requirement for having kids - wouldn’t necessarily guarantee that the child is NOT going to be raised “ultra-religious, closed-minded, [or as a] non-achiever”. Financially the child will have more options but um… i just don’t know if that would still be sufficient. i know far too many formally-educated idiots, and formally-uneducated angels. Education isn’t a surefire guarantee of goodness or even wisdom.

Does that make ANY sense? :frowning:

10

sambrialian,

i see where you're coming from, but personally i'm a believer of 'when Allah sends someone in this world, He provides for them'. i dont believe in family planning.

parents have different views about whats the best for their children and i believe all parents, or atleast 99% of them, do try to do the best for their child. even kids who go to the best schools and colleges in the world can turn out bad. all parents dont deem education as a necessary thing. i have close relatives who are not educated but still great people and great citizens.

family planning for the sake of a brighter future for the kids coz when there are less you will be able to raise them better....i dont believe in that at all. coz the future can change at any time. one should just have faith in Allah. children are a huge blessing and the biggest source of happiness, i think its terrible what the govt of China has done, in terms of government restrictions on number of children.

11

exactly my thoughts nadz :k:

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
family planning for the sake of a brighter future for the kids coz when there are less you will be able to raise them better....i dont believe in that at all. coz the future can change at any time. one should just have faith in Allah. children are a huge blessing and the biggest source of happiness, i think its terrible what the govt of China has done, in terms of government restrictions on number of children.
[/QUOTE]

so, what u recommend Irem? Go on making babies and stare at the sky waiting for allah to throw food and clothing for the kids if u can't provide no matter how hard u try.

13

Dude, thats not all either. Btw, one thing I personally believe is that whatever happens to these people is due to their distance from the religion of Allah, their reliance on "peers" and what not. They think they're being brilliant, bring more muslims into this world, but they are just breeding more ignorance. Conversely, I also think if a person is a good muslim, he wants to enjoy being a parent, wants x # of children, and he sincerely aims to work and provide for them, then Allah helps him find a way.

Anyway, what I wanted to say much earlier in my post was, its not that they are bringing up another person who'll turn into a leech, but this child does not get to be a child, and this is much sadder. These people have so little mental growth, they can not take care of their children, the children face so much mental and physical abuse (hitting children every little while). They dont get to enjoy bringing up the child. Not only is this a loss from a financial point of view, but more important, the kids loose out on their childhood, and the parents, on a brilliant opportunity to raise a good kid, one they can be proud of.

14

I am so upset and offended by this post. Particularly because this post seems to imply money and education qualify us to pass judgments and condemn others who are not so fortunate.

I come from a poor background. I can’t brag about a once rich and famous but now defunct ancestry or a long and meaningless family tree. But I am proud of my background. My grandfather was a mazdoor, a labourer who would walk miles with a basket of rocks on his head for two rupees or so a month just so he could feed and clothe his family of eight. He would go without than to be in debt to anybody. He was illiterate but had the kind of learning you can’t buy with money - the kind that comes with hard work and self-respect. My father grew up in these circumstances. He passed paanchween jamaat and then on someone’s advice was sent to a madrassah when he was 10 because that was the only way to get an education for poor people. Five years in a madrassah, my father became fluent in languages and topped the Board exams. In an era when the ultimate dream job for people of his background was a sarkaari nokri, or becoming a fauji sepai, my father took a private BA course, taught himself english and did his teacher training. By his late twenties he was supporting himself, his family, the families of his sisters and directly coached and financially invested in at the very least 10 other extended family members into education all of whom are now able to support themselves and their families in turn.

In the end it’s not about how rich, poor or how educated or how many opportunities anyone has. It’s about how you make the most of what opportunities you DO have, however few they may be.

15

Irem, I totally agree with you.

Each child that comes into the world, brings its own kismat with it, allah will provide for it, money is not everything in the world.

And about education, what more could you be educated about if you are Quran hifz, there is no better knowlegde or education in the world than this.

16

I thought long and hard about giving a balanced argument, but you know what screw that, I shall respond to anger induced BS with anger induced BS. Who the hell died and made you keeper of all things contraception?

It is very funny when Tom, Dicks and Abdullahs begin to preach about rubbish when in fact they have been exposed to very little of which they speak.

I lie about the funny bit.

To procreate is a human right, and it is one that god has given every human being. Whatever this man intends to do with his kid is entirely his business and not yours. He shall go to his god, the kid to his own, and you consequently to yours.

It is in your humble and not so knowledgeable opinion that this guy should not have a kid with his wife, and it is in my humble opinion that it is none of your business.

Unless you are funding the kid, in which case it is every bit your right to refuse. But otherwise wish them luck. I doubt raising a kid is any easier with ignorants judging you for it.

I hope you are never in a position where your financial situation changes after having kids, you might have to put them down.

17

:k: :k: :k: :slight_smile:

ChandBeti I think the answer to your question lies in what farah said :slight_smile:

hiccup ouch :hehe: u r cute :hehe:

18

I agree its every humans right to have kids. You can critise and judge as much as you want, people will continue to procreate.
How do you know their love for their children could be worth more than all the money and privelages you provide for yours. Money is not the be all and end all of everything.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by hiccup: *
I hope you are never in a position where your financial situation changes after having kids, you might have to put them down.
[/QUOTE]

This is a good point (sort off), what should happen to your children if you lose your job, or become ill, or disabled, then should your children be taken away?. Since you wont be able to provide financially for them, then what right would you have to keep them (going by your logic).

Life is not simple, you never know what is written for each person. What you may see as a misfortune could be a blessing for the child.

19

This is my dream for the past few years. To open a school in Lahore at a large scale. A free school. Education must be free.

Besides, we need a law from the government that primary education be compulsory for ALL the children of Pakistan.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *
2) I'll go open schools in Pak and you can send me money? I like this one too.
[/QUOTE]

20

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ammarr: *
Dude, thats not all either. Btw, one thing I personally believe is that whatever happens to these people is due to their distance from the religion of Allah, their reliance on "peers" and what not. They think they're being brilliant, bring more muslims into this world, but they are just breeding more ignorance. **Conversely, I also think if a person is a good muslim, he wants to enjoy being a parent, wants x # of children, and he sincerely aims to work and provide for them, then Allah helps him find a way.*

Anyway, what I wanted to say much earlier in my post was, its not that they are bringing up another person who'll turn into a leech, but this child does not get to be a child, and this is much sadder. These people have so little mental growth, they can not take care of their children, the children face so much mental and physical abuse (hitting children every little while). They dont get to enjoy bringing up the child. Not only is this a loss from a financial point of view, but more important, the kids loose out on their childhood, and the parents, on a brilliant opportunity to raise a good kid, one they can be proud of.
[/QUOTE]

very well said. this is what I what getting at.

Nadia, that was a bit of a light hearted post about having to fulfill financial requirements before being able to parent a kid. :-)

irem and farah, I don't agree with what you said. I think like ammar said, if you can't support a kid financially you should think hard before making such a decision... regarding Allah providing for everybody, yes that is true. but if you don't work, you shouldn't expect food, money and opportunity to drop from the heavens. and this happens to be this man's case. he does NOT work, and I'm not sure why Allah would want to help him 'cause he doesn't want to help himself?

XTC, I apologize for offending you. my point was not about necessarily about poor people, but poor people who don't work and have no intentions of working. I hope you see the difference? my grandfather wasn't a millionaire himself but he did have a job. :)

M, I don't know the answer to your question. :-)