Since it has been permitted in Islam…don’t you guys think that these western countries should amend there laws for muslims…and allow them to have upto four wives???
Ps. Ladies…Shaanti shaanti…i wrote the magic word up there…“Islam”…
I second that. And then these laws be applied to “all” not only to Muslims.
Naiko. Laws in the Western world are not based on what religion prescribes but are formed by ordinary citizens. What appeals to people becomes Law. If people want four wives, they will enact such laws (but women will equally participate in such formulation, and they might want 4 husbands).
should they? would islamic countries agree for wine factories for christians in their country? would non-muslims be permitted to observe their standards regarding dresses in an islami country? it's upto islamic countries to show the way to the west... :)
Queer. Turkey makes excellent wines. There is a pretty good Bhutthi in my neighborhood in Lahore that brews a killer wine. I have also tasted a darn good Sidiki made in Saudi Arabia.
that's interesting! if they let non-muslims have alcohol in saudi, i guess muslims in the west do have a right to ask for bigamy atleast. trigamy if they'll allow pork chops, and four wives if they'll treat non-muslims on par with muslims.
btw, what's Sidiki? some kinda beer?
[quote]
Since it has been permitted in Islam...don't you guys think that these western countries should amend there laws for muslims...and allow them to have upto four wives??? Ps. Ladies...Shaanti shaanti...i wrote the magic word up there..."Islam"...
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I know that in Modern society, ppl normally LAUGH at Islam and the concept of wives in Islam.
BTW, Islam doesn't allow more than one marriage at a time. It is permitted under few situations and depends upon circumstances. This is as per my limited knowledge of Quraan & Hadith.
Sometimes, while alone, I think if our Holy Prophet (PBUH) would be alive(sorry for this concept, as I am non-barelvi) today, these Modern Muslim Women certainly criticize his pious personality for more number of marriages.
I've never met any Muslim girl all in my life who would tell her husband, if required, plz go and get married again instead of doing adultery.
But anyhow I am very strong supporter of SINGLE marraige. Eak ho naik ho
Nadeem
I think the idea is to have a "Uniform Civil Code" (what a few of us have been fighting for all along in India), where everyone is treated similarly by common laws....so basically the laws shouldn't be amended for a particular religious group. So like NYA says that if Muslims are allowed to have multiple wives, so should everyone else. Otherwise it would become a mess like in India where Muslims are allowed to have their own personal laws distinct from the rest of the country !!!
[This message has been edited by BombayKid (edited May 30, 2000).]
My dear Naik-Parosun, I think the question should be put it in this way first,
- Why ISLAM allows polygamy and not polyandry?
- What are the spiritual, moral and ethical motives behind this scenario?
- Does ISLAM encourage to wed-quarto or it’s just a colloquial expression?
- How can this law be beneficial to a society, socio-economically?
These western/eastern laws were tailored according to human wants, they don’t carry any religious incentives. If these questions (or issues like these) are answered with a sound reason, then there is no way westerns can deny the said mandate.
Yes it is the need of this time too. This particular shelter-dependent fraction of our society is increasing proportionally with negligence as well. Today, the feminine ratios, tagged with other harms of the society (divorce /woman-abuse /prostitution /orphanage) are quite remarkable, globally. The solution for such situations is also very beautifully explained some 1400 years ago, unfortunately, Muslims men take this for granted, and assumes that marring four is their birth right. Islam allows (thought it certainly does not enjoin) a man to have more than one wife up to four, at a time. Yes there are strings attached to this deal.
If these western nations have ever thought on such issues, they would have certainly adapted this only solution.
regards.
hum! good thougt naik. Now i decided to impliment with example, buy the way naik can u find 4 girls who agree to marry me.
Naiko, Fasaad Pa Deta Aey na.
You are talking about getting 4 wives when some peoples have problems finding one. Look at Roman, poor guy is still making his own breakfast and me eating Channey Key Daal for Lunch.
Lets have a survey,
** How many married Men here wants to have more wives. **
Me ** NO **
Lets see......
It's so sad that we muslims are playing with our own most sacred religious institutions and obligations without having a hint of knowledge of what Qu'ran asks every muslims to do.
As far as your topic is concern Naiko, You should know that under NO circumstances our religion promotes by any means the use of force or to BREAK LAWS of ANY country. During the era when OUR HOLY PROPHET began his teachings, there was a great of concern about the security newly converted muslim women. Most of the time their husbands had been dragged away or killed and their relatives have turn their backs on them for accepting Islam. That's why from day one there's a clause in our relgion that IF such situation arises along with others that Islam has granted permission for second, third and forth marriages. It's for a woman's advantage because once NIKKAH has been taken place, it's the husband prior responsibility to provide for the babies and his wife or wives...it's not like in western countries that the guy scores and takes off.
Just think of what has happened in Bosnia. Muslim women who have repeatedly been raped by Serb soldiers gave birth to non-muslim babies. Putting that in mind Nadeem then our muslim women WILL NOT criticize our prophet's multi-marriage status.
If WE abuse the rules then the flaw is within oursleves, not in the religion.
[This message has been edited by eva1921 (edited May 31, 2000).]
Eva,
Excellent points. You are very right.
Zara
Although Polygamy is allowed in Islam but think! isn't that tough to keep more than one wife in Western countries where it getting almost tough to keep one wife. Then think about affordability: Multiple wifes with childerns. Who is going to pay for food? who is gong to pay for living? health?. Yes it is different when you are so rich but for those rich ppl. Woh kahan baaz atay haan.
Most countries have "seperation of church and state" policy so I guess it is nearly impossible political wise, plus it is impractical to allow Polygamy in such countries.
Wasim think about roles they will play.
1)one for pleasure
2)one for work outside and earn money
3)one for your daily 24hr. personnel service
4)one for looking after kids and households.
Than all problembs solved.
I personally think that in the western world of today there is no need for men to marry more then once, Women are not as accepting as they used to be and neither are the men as pious and with clean intentions as the prophet…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
As Eva said that time and age was different, women’s needs were different ..
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif
These days if one marriage survives be it arranged or love then uss ka bhi shukar karo - one man and 4 women in this day and age spell catastrophe
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/eek.gif
MS
eva1921,
this is the best ever phrase I've read in gupshupp about the western culture:
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...western countries that the guy scores and takes off.
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God bless you!
Nadeem
Guys, thanx for ur replies but most of u didn’t get my point…
I am not talking about when, where, how, why and underwhat circumstances it is allowed in islam…and what r the strings attached to it…whether its bad or good…these are completely diff issues…we can talk about them in religion…what i am asking here from u guys is…
Since it is allowed in islam(forget all other things)…and “Right to practice religion” is part of first amendment of US constitution (correct me if i am wrong)…don’t u guys think that we shud have a right to practice our religion too???
don’t u think that we have a right to those first amendment rights too?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif
…and Eva…i am not talking about breaking the law i am talking about making the law:)
…and someone made the comment about different time n age and diff needs??
what that suppose to mean??? are u trying to say that those islamic and Quranic laws r not applicable in todays time n age? and we shud modify them???
Ciao
Naikbibi, you are absolutely right about pointing out the paradoxical dilemma of the first amendment. Which goes as follows:
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. “
When laws are drafted in the US, religion does not take precedence. If people want certain laws, they formulate it through an electoral process. Given the element of multiple marriages, there are sects in Utah that practice polygamy. Their multiple marriages are not recognized by the State and should the wive(s) want to challenge, she stands a good shot of getting the marriage annulled. So if a Muslim wife in the US takes her husband in court for him marrying a second woman, she will be accorded a decision inline with the laws of the US, and not the Islamic Laws.
Why stop at polygamy law then? We should demand that Muslims be governed by Islamic laws... including Sharia.
well, i haven't read all the posts in this thread...and actually feel a lil selfish soing this...just wanted to know ur views on this matter guyz:
a friend of mine went to pak recently, and while there, he got married (arranged marriage, his parents wishes)...in the meantime, he liked someone else, and he had even informed his parents about her, but his parents told him straight off to forget about it...b4 he came back, he felt an obligation towards the girl he liked, as he had promised her that he'd make a commitment to her b4 leaving...so right b4 he came back, he got engaged to her, without his parents consent, BUT in the knowledge of the girls parents...now he's in a real tight spot, cuz his parents are putting a lot of pressure on him to bring to this country the girl he got married to, while he doesn't want to do anything with her...and on the other hand, the girl he likes (to whom he is engaged) is putting a lot of pressure on him talk to his parents, and do something about it...
now what do u guyz think bout all of this??