i’ve never been able to come to terms with and totally understand this concept in Islam 
can people post authentic religious information + their personal views about polygamy?
thanks, jazakallah
irem
Irem 
(i HAVE to give you a hug, whenever i respond to you…just a habit now :D)
My personal views re: polygamy - this may sound contradictory, and i apologize in advance for it. i believe that it is a quite practical and sensible solution to quite a few problems, if it is followed Islamically, but i would not feel comfortable with allowing it in my own life. i realize that is contradictory and i deal with it later in my response. The nub of polygamy is that it has to be followed according to the unchangeable Rules that Allah laid down in the Quran. Each wife has to be treated equally… and this would be almost impossible for most human beings.
Let’s say you have a situation where you have a widow who is not financially independent and/or she’s “lost” standing in her society because of her status as a widow (we can debate how appropriate that is or not in another thread, but let’s acknowledge that losing societal status IS possible and does happen frequently). She has an opportunity to get married as a second/third/fourth wife to a man, who will hypothetically take care of her equally as he does all his other wives, then why not arrange for a situation in which she is at least taken care of financially and more importantly she is treated with respect and dignity for the rest of her life. i know it’s not the most optimum situation. Is it comparatively better than her having to fend for herself, as an elderly widow? In my opinion, yes.
Having said that, i don’t think i would ever agree to it myself (i realize this is contradictory, but i’m just trying to be honest). Every human being possesses their own unique set of flaws. This aspect is included in my set of flaws. i don’t think i would be able to agree to allowing a second wife. It’s just because i would not be secure enough to feel that all of us are being treated equally. That’s a flaw within me that i entirely accept. i respect the rule, but i have yet to reach that level where i would feel comfortable implementing it in my own life. It’s like the issue of hijaab - i believe it is Islamically an extremely practical and wholly correct policy, but i do not follow it (yet?) in my own life for whatever personal reasons that are between me and God that i have to figure out on my own before i can implement it successfully in my life.
i wish i could give a seedha saadha reply to one thread on gupshup, just once, instead of these convoluted, bizarre responses :~( Sorry, just trying to be honest in my response :~(
^
nadz
yar…i have seen some polygamous marriages very closely…i feel like it causes sooo many problems…for the women specially…i think for the guy too it becomes a pain coz if his wife is not happy then it reflects in the marriage innit…but no matter how good the women are, there is always internal tension…
yes u hear of many cases, specially in pinds, where the wives are living harmoniously with each other in the same house but un k dil pe roz kya guzarti hae, thats another story…
seriously, i have spoken to some very big Muslim scholars about this issue and some of them told me that in Islam polygamy is allowed but only in the condition that the man can treat his wives equally and then it is also said that he cannot…so in essence its not allowed…but obviously the common belief is that its totally acceptable 
for me polygamy in Islam is summed up under these verses....
nowhere else in Quran do i find mention of four marriages....
and i feel the permission here is very 'limited' and i dont know how under normal conditions men take liberty of marrying more than once....
P.S. this is strictly my personal view....
Quran 4:2-3
Give unto orphans their wealth. Exchange not the good for the bad (in your management thereof) nor absorb their wealth into your own wealth. Lo! that would be a great sin.
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
i am going to post my personal view:
the whole idea of polygyny isn't as insulting and 'evil' as it sounds. while the supporters miss the point of it being allowed and not being "recommended" in any way, the opposers consider it a blow on the ideals of equality. i think the doctrine does more good than harm i.e. reduces extramarital relationships, cheating and consequently divorce rates. however, to better understand the whole notion of polygyny one should consider the ideal islamic society. one where it would be very unlikely for a man to flirt and a marriage would be arranged. you know, everything will be undertaken in a certain order. the woman will be asked for permission etc.
now to the problem of why is it so hard to understand. i think, its got something to do with the social and cultural pressures. talking of the whole world in general, christians, jews, atheists dont acknowledge the possible practise of polygamy and that puts muslims under scrutiny. and it becomes even worse when you grow in an environment heavily influenced by hindu ideals.
its not child's play for a man to give it a go. of course, some conditions apply but as has been with a lot of other laws of the faith, this one too has been used to the "bad man's" advantage. about the average pakistani women, as we speak of it right now, the educated and open-minded have a hard time comprehending it while the old-school consider it an example of male-dominance in islam (which is somewhat true but this is not the right example).
The Rainmaker - thanks for ur reply.
I don't think Islamically a marriage has to be strictly 'arranged' in the way it is done in many places in Pakistan. Infact the opposite. I mean, many people in Pakistan get married without even ever seeing their future spouses. That's not Islamic.
reduces extramarital relationships, cheating and consequently divorce rates.
THIS is the hard to get part for me. I mean, this stuff is wrong anyway and should be avoided at all costs anyway, so why get into it. I mean, its just like alcohol or drugs is not allowed period. So this stuff is also not allowed and should be refrained from. Why should poylgamy be used as an escape route for these actions?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
for me polygamy in Islam is summed up under these verses....
nowhere else in Quran do i find mention of four marriages....
and i feel the permission here is very 'limited' and i dont know how under normal conditions men take liberty of marrying more than once....
P.S. this is strictly my personal view....
Quran 4:2-3
Give unto orphans their wealth. Exchange not the good for the bad (in your management thereof) nor absorb their wealth into your own wealth. Lo! that would be a great sin.
And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.
[/QUOTE]
armughal bhai jazakallah
please explain your interpretation of this ayat too? i'm not completely sure what your view is...?
[quote]
yar...i have seen some polygamous marriages very closely...i feel like it causes sooo many problems...
[/quote]
haan, i agree with this. But yaar i've seen widows and how they try to deal with our community... and how the community in general treats them. Maybe i am over-generalizing, but it's really impressed something into my heart...if the widow has an opportunity to get re-married, then i would rather they go for it rather than be left at the whims of society's finicky treatment of them. IF - operative word here being "IF" - they have a husband who will TRULY TRULY TRULY take care of them equally and not make them feel like 'second baggage', then why not. i know it's not the most optimum situation. But yaar .... something is better than being left alone by society.
Speaking about equal treatment... one of my Phuppis, my Abbu's younger sister, is a second wife. The first wife lives in a gaon close to Islamabad, while Phuppi lives in Islamabad. i understand what you mean kai kia dil pe roz guzarta ho ga, that's another story. i know Phuppi is happy, because Alhamdulillah Phuppa treats her very well (but that may be because she gave birth to three sons, whereas the first wife wasn't able to conceive). What passes in the heart of the first wife - no one can even begin to imagine and i won't pretend to know or speak for her.
Phuppa Alhamdulillah is a good man, i am sure he follows the Islamic principle of treating them equally...but then again, he spends most of his time in Islamabad, not where the first wife lives. So right there, that seems to be a violation of the equal-treatment aspect. sigh :( :( :(
[quote]
seriously, i have spoken to some very big Muslim scholars about this issue and some of them told me that in Islam polygamy is allowed but only in the condition that the man can treat his wives equally and then it is also said that he cannot...so in essence its now allowed...but obviously the common belief is that its totally acceptable
[/quote]
Sorry yaar :( Did you mean "now" or "not" in that underlined word above? i think it depends upon the niyat too, doesn't it. What if the guy makes a niyat in his heart to Allah that he will treat both his wives equally. Doesn't everything depend upon niyat.
Anyways :( yaar sorry ... i guess i don't know really about this issue. It seems to me that if Allah has allowed it in the Quran only with a very strict provision, then each husband who enters into this situation, has to realize inside of themselves that basically they are entering into an unwritten sacred contract with Allah ... the husband HAS to realize that he will be answerable if he does not treat his wives equally. The failure of polygamous relationships stems from the fact that mortals are always prone to errors, but if we followed the religion perfectly, then there would be no such problems.
Some other things i have read, by the way, stipulate that polygamy may have been preferred at a time when there were many wars being fought in Mecca/Madinah and that surrounding area with a consequence being that there was a disproportionate number of men:women. Hence, it made sense at that particular time under a particular context.
Bahaut bak bak kar lia... i'll shut up now :o
Yes, Islam always talk about ADL.
And It is difficult for typical PAKISTANI to do
ADL with two wives or more. Why. They are more
into cultural stuff. And the society looks down upon
people who marry twice or more. As If somebody is
doing Zinna.
To take more than one wife is Islamic , aur iske leye
kisee wife ke permission necessary naheee.
nadz :hugggggggg:
nadz i agree to that, but why does the widow have to become someone’s second wife…? :bummerrr: i mean, sometimes unmarried men marry widows/divorcees too right? :S and then there r divorced/widowed men too who can marry her init…? :S
nadz thingz r not as simple as they seem passing time is one thing, but there r many other aspects in the relationship too…ask ur phuppi and i can guarantee that she will still say that ur phuppa treats his first wife better (or even if she doesnt say it she must feel that)…SOKANS always believe that their husband treats the other wife better..or atleast thats waat i’ve seen
yaar i meant not :hugggg:
hmmm…yes nadz it does but it causes soooooooooooo many problems…
and yaar, one should be realistic in his niyats too…i mean niyat is everything but tomorrow if i tell myself, i’m going to make friends with people who smoke and drink all the time and hang out with them 24/7 and i will never touch cig/alcohol, then my niyat may be strong but i;m only human and can falter so its best to just stay away and make realistic niyats…dont u think yaar specially when Allah swt has Himself said that its not easy to be just to all wives…Allah o Alim
nai yar i dont even know anything :huggggg:
yeah sigh u r right
yes yaar ive heard this too…
naiii please continue 
:huggggg:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
The Rainmaker - thanks for ur reply.
I don't think Islamically a marriage has to be strictly 'arranged' in the way it is done in many places in Pakistan.
reduces extramarital relationships, cheating and consequently divorce rates.
THIS is the hard to get part for me. I mean, this stuff is wrong anyway and should be avoided at all costs anyway, so why get into it. I mean, its just like alcohol or drugs is not allowed period. So this stuff is also not allowed and should be refrained from. Why should poylgamy be used as an escape route for these actions?
[/QUOTE]
okkk... strictly islamically speaking, marriages have to be arranged. in fact, islam encourages early marriage, that is, not waiting until u turn 25 and have a good job. these are social practises not islamic. how is an islamic marriage an arranged one? what is arranged marriage in first place? that your parents or caretakers decide your match ... and you agree. look at the islamic history, its been like this, always! i havent come across a single story of a sahabi/a refusing to marry at the critical moment. while you are right about the 'choice' matters (of saying yes or no) but u know they are predetermined in an arranged marriage (and lead to the arrangements if i may say). nevertheless, thats not the issue in hand.
when you say thats wrong and should not happen, i m sorry to say, thats a very naive way of looking at things. if you think that whats wrong shouldnt be done for its wrongness then we're not talking islam here. its more like buddhism or moralistic atheism at work. and by assuming that, you are discounting a prominent feature of islam -- that it recognizes the practical nature of life and the evil in it. islam realizes that while you can state all the ideal laws, you need to have them complete in order to be practical. christianity ignores a possiblity of polygyny and opens a door for legalized prostitution. God would have totally disallowed divorce since He dislikes it but it is allowed. why? because divorce isn't wrong, at times its good. good for the couple. however, it is evident from the current state of societies that arranged marriages turn out to be more stable than chosen ones. arranged marriage instills a sense of order and obidience in the couple for the rest of their lives. i am not in any way writing off dating-dating-marrying ideas nor am i advocating "dear son, this is your wife, say yes" but trying to paint a clearer picture of what islam encourages and why.
allowance of polygyny is not an escape route but more of a safe route. it depends on the way you look at things.
brother,
-
whats ADL?
-
To take more than one wife is Islamic , aur iske leye
kisee wife ke permission necessary naheee.
i dont think thats true 
i think the permission of the first wife is necessary but i think in Pakistan some fiqah have twisted the shariah to justify themselves and have legally changed the laws so men dont need permission from first wife…
but as far as i know, islamically u need the permission from first wife…
getting married without letting the first (or whichever) wife know sounds so un-ADL-istic! the guy is wrong right from the get go.
I read an article , actually It was an interview of
Abdul Sattar Edhi and his wife.
Jang Mag ka article heee.
And the topic was second marriage of Edhi Sahab. His first wife got him
married. Becuase she wanted to show the society that this could
done. But the second wife asked for divorce. Couldn't cope up with the
situation.
Edhi Sahab that in Sindh and Punjab people marry just once, most of them. and because of that there are more illegitimate children in these
provinces.i-e his orphange statistics. Every Edhi home has a jhoola
outside. where people can just keep their illegitimate babies and no questions are asked. but this happens in Sindh and Punjab only.
And he further added that in Pathanistan and Baluchistan people
take more than one wife. Hence, no illegitimate children.
My point of view abt last 2 provinces, well
yeh tu gole he marde gee. so Its not gonna happen.
So his Jhoolas are empty in last 2 provinces.
And whether we like It or not. jo Muhammad(may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him) ne kardia wuh tekh hee.
Whether we can understand it or not.
So no need to whine about it.
Adl means justice. Aur Islam is cheez per sub see ziada stress kartaa hee.
No, wife ke permission necessary nahee.
Do you think Hazoor(SAW) ne apne wife se Ijjazat mangeee theee.
And tell me If your husband asks you for your permission(hypothetical situation). Would you say yes.
Koi permission necessary naheee.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rehman1: *
And whether we like It or not. jo Muhammad(may Allahs peace and blessing be upon him) ne kardia wuh tekh hee.
Whether we can understand it or not.
So no need to whine about it.
[/QUOTE]
you don't tell the wife that theres another one coming, where does your ADL go? if we are talking about treating the wives equally, the first wife has the right to know about the second marriage just like the second wife to-be would know about the first. if both dont know then i dont see how one could justify it as an islamic act.
this is not whining, its more like understanding the issue and making sense out of it. the whole polygyny issue makes sense to me but adequate communication appears to be a given if you say ADL is so important in islam.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by The Rainmaker: *
you don't tell the wife that theres another one coming, where does your ADL go? if we are talking about treating the wives equally, the first wife has the right to know about the second marriage just like the second wife to-be would know about the first. if both dont know then i dont see how one could justify it as an islamic act.
this is not whining, its more like understanding the issue and making sense out of it. the whole polygyny issue makes sense to me but adequate communication appears to be a given if you say ADL is so important in islam.
[/QUOTE]
Assalam Aleekum
There is a difference in "letting her know" and "Asking for permission".
Adl jo Khuda ka hukm in all matters. Not just this one.
You or I don't define Adl. Muhammad(SAW) ne already karke bata dia.
All matters , not just this matter.
rehman1 brother okies thanks. i do know of sisters who have given permission. i mean this atleast means that if the guy has other wives its not hidden from his first wife. yeah maybe it is ‘informing’ not ‘asking for permission’ thats the requirement i’m not sure
The Rainmaker, alhamdulillah that we are in situations where we have caretakers but what about brothers or sisters who don’t? how do they get married, surely they can’t have arranged marriages? and Islam is for all.
to answer your other point…are you saying that polygamy is considered as disliked as a divorce but STILL it IS allowed in EXTREME situations? on the contrary, many men vew it as their privilege and right and something they can easily indulge in it is not viewed upon with the same dislike or revulsion as divorce is in our society…
I think hamara culture faulty hee.
Jab tuk shadi me Indian songs naa hu, tu shadii nahee huteee.
off topic-
have you noticed that when Pakistanis females jaab kisee
party (like family functions) me jateee hee they get all
dressed up and make up and stuff.
And when they come home Its all gone. Same meelaa Kapraas.
So "BECHAAREEE" Pakistani Mard kia kareee. Sigh for them.
abb dosre, tesree he kaengeee.
take care