Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
This is the point I have been trying to make since my second post.
Eventhough she might have said no before the rape took place, she is still responsible for being drunk or anything that aided the rapist to come to this act.
Rapist should go to jail, but the girl should also be blamed for her misfortunes.
When I said “major reason”, it was only in situation where the girl is flirting, and seducing the potential rapist before the rape actually takes place.
Yes majority of the rapes do take place in dark allies, and majority of victims are weak and vulnerable, and innocent, but those who dress, and act in flirtatious, and seductive manner are partially responsibles for the sexual assault.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
Umair, the problem with your logic is that even if I locked the door and still get robbed, someone might say that I am partly responsible for using third class locks. So, I change all my locks to better ones and get robbed again, and someone argues it is partly my fault because I don’t have an electronic alarm system. I put that in and get robbed again and someone claims geee Ahmad you are stupid enough to not put up safety bars in all the windows and doors. I do that and I still get robbed and yet someone will object that I am partly responsible for choosing to live in such a neighborhood.
The point is, the minute you start blaming the victim, there is no end. It is a slippery slope.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
I agree, but drinking is such dumb act in its own right.
If you get drunk in the presence of other men and let your guard down, you are to blame for your stupidity.
Its like the saying “you reap what you sow”
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
There’s a difference between drinking and getting drunk. I never said it’s ok to rape a girl just because she’s drinking. I just didn’t see how a lock example would be compareable to rape? I don’t think we are comparing apples to apples in that example.
However, drinking is root cause of a lot of evil and bad deeds. Why do you think drinking is prohibited in Islam? For the same reason because when you drink and get drunk, you are not in your right mind and you can: Kill someone, rape, disrespect, abuse, beat anyone. That’s why drinking was prohibited in Islam.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
Shikra, what I am disagreeing with are people who use alcohol as an excuse to rape or commit any violent crime, especially if the criminal in question isn't even drunk. It IS taking advantage of someone who is not in their right senses. Again, people keep equating rape to sex and lust when rape is in fact about control, humiliation, revenge and power.
By the way, vast majority of sexual crimes are committed by people we are actually associated with. The chance of being attacked by someone you know in an environment you are comfortable in is a lot higher than being attacked by a stranger in a dark alley. In a way, that makes it even worse ... you know the girl, see she is drunk and molest her. In any case, it's sick.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
I agree. I never said and I agree with you that just becuase a girl is drunk, it's okay for a guy to go ahead and take advantage of her. There's NO excuse and justification for rape. Fine, if a girl is drunk and "asking" for it (as some people might put it), the guy is in his right senses. He has control over his desires. He can think.
I was reading the first two pages when this thread was opened (before I replied), I saw no one mentioned that rape is not sex, it happens because sick people want to feel the power and control, and then I saw your reply and I agreed. I was about to say the same thing.
I think this thread was opened to discuss rape, not "rape when drunk" but since we are talking about it, I will go ahead and add this. I agree with someone who said when a drunk girl is raped and it's time to punish the culprit, man and woman both should get punished. Man: For raping a girl. Woman: For being drunk. She's not responsible for being raped, but she is responsible because drinking (read getting drunk in public) is wrong as well.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
Ok, Shikra; no competing examples for you.
If we take the argument that some are making here that the drunk girl is partly responsible for being raped, then who is to stop someone else from saying that any girl who is at any party even if she isn’t drunk is also partly to blame? You might stop there but how can you argue against someone that says the girl walking alone late at night is partly to blame? Or the one who says that any girl wearing makeup is also partly to blame if she gets raped? Or the one who wasn’t wearing hijab is also partly to blame? Slippery slope!!
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
I have edited my above reply and added a last paragraph before I read your post. So that applies to this. If a girl is walking down the street and gets raped, no it's not her fault. (Although some people might even say that it's her fault because she is a girl who was walking alone) But when a girl is drunk in public and then walking down the street, then she's wrong for getting drunk (still not responsible for being raped)
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
You can't extend the drunk/high situation to any other other situation, because the drunk/high state impairs judgement.
It impairs a woman's ability to protect herself. The situation of going to a party, or wearing skimpy clothing, or wearing hot black coal eyeshadow does not apply, since in these situations, you do not automatically impair judgement or lose consciousness.
Deliberately knocking your conscious out and then asking yourself "what happened to me, and hai Allah, how did THAT happen" (whatever THAT may be), once you wake up...its a bit silly and actually, its quite moronic.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
theres no justification in rape and anyone who rapes needs to be shot. having said that,, I would say that if proper precautions are taken, and such sickos arent given the environment and circumstances these rapists are looking for, a lot of rapes can be prevented. So when someone says she was partly to blame for the rape, its not because they think its OK to rape, theres no question about that, but knowing that there are sickos out there, she should have been more careful or should have known better. You cant just assume nothing will happen to me, ah i can go dress like a slut, get totally drunk, pop some tablets and shoot some heroine as well, and then i,ll walk home through a dark alley. I mean come on, you have to act more responsible for your behaviour. Dont assume its a perfect world, there are sickos out there, so be careful! IF someone gets raped in the circumstances described above, the guy needs to be shot! cos theres no justification for him to rape under ANY circumstances! but I will blame the girl for being an idiot and not careful enough. She isnt getting my sypmathies.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
Well said Mehnaz! And, yes, I hate it when people insult my humanity.
There could be slightly different definitions of rape in different statutes around the world. One word that’s common to all of them is ‘forcible’. If you’re forcing a woman/man to have ‘sex’ with you, it’s rape. The important thing is to know what’s forcible and what’s not. I think most men would agree with me that rape (forcible rape) requires a criminal mentality. Men don’t rape women because they’re dressed in a particular way. If it’s not in you, you’re not going to force intercourse on any woman, no matter how scantily she’s dressed. When I say ‘it’s not in you’, I’m not referring to courage, I’m referring to a filthy criminal mentality. There are plenty of men who have forced sex on small kids even young men. They didn’t necessarily do it because the victims were dressed provocatively. I don’t want to be specific here because that will completely derail the discussion.
Another theory that we come across frequently is that exposure to sex (on media) predisposes men to rape women. It has been proved in surveys that there’s no clear connection between the sex you watch on your television screens and the forcible sex on the streets (rapes). For example, in Japan the number of rape incidents decreasd in the same period when people’s exposure to sex increased. There can be a number of factors involved, and I’m certainly not saying that forcible sex on the streets decreased because they increased sexual content on TV. But I’m tempted to deduce one thing here. Exposure to scantily clad ladies on your television screen doesn’t predispose a man to force sex on women. I’m not discussing the effects of sado-masochistic and other violent practices that totally dehumanize people. Neither am I talking about already dehumanized people.
One thing that should be clearly defined is what you mean by ‘flirtatious’ behavior, and what constitutes ‘consent’. If a smile, a lingering glance, a comment is flirtatious behavior, then I don’t think any sane man would be tempted to rape a woman because she was being flirtatious, or wasn’t ‘demure’ enough. But if, by flirtatious behavior, you mean that a woman asked a man to come over to her place, gave him intoxicating wines, and showed a clear interest in having sex with him (although she didn’t state that explicitly), then you’d have to be very cautious in judging the intentions of both parties. Again, I’m not saying that by asking a man to come to her place, drinking with him, and even talking about sex with him the woman was inviting him to have sex. But I’d never advise a woman to confuse the mind of a ‘confused’ man, especially if she doesn’t trust his intentions.
I’m not asking women to dress up ‘provocatively’ or act ‘flirtatiously’. I repeat I am not encouraging any behavior. A sane person would never be tempted to rape any woman, but one must be careful about criminals. Parents tell their kids to avoid particular men/women and situations. Grown-ups should also avoid particular men/women and situations. Let me put it this way. I, sometimes, have to leave my place during the night. By leaving my place at night, I’m not asking any stray dogs to attack me. But there are stray dogs. And I’m always mindful of them. If I can avoid them, I would avoid them. If they attack me, I will hit back. And while hitting back, I would not give any thoughts to the breed (or gender) of the dog, or the street where I was attacked. Specific areas may require sepcific actions to cage the stray dogs. But it’s not about their breed, or the area they live in. Why there are more rapes in certain areas, or from the members of particular community/race is debatable. But one thing that is very clear-even if you don’t agree with anything I said here- is that we must try to cage rabid dogs.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
How do you explain the results of the survey? Where are people developing their ideas from about victims that are raped and why, that they think flirtatious behavior leads to responsibility? It was a significant amount of ppl that thought this way. Not one in 1000.
Re: Poll reveals many feel women are responsible for being raped
I really don't know. There're different kinds of rape cases in different parts of the world, although many things are common to all these reprehensible acts. Perhaps the scope of the survery was limited, i.e. only discussing cases like: "A rape case has collapsed after a student at ABC University admitted to being too drunk to remember whether she had consented to sex." If it doesn't solve the problem, you may consider changing your primary premise from 'All people are good' to 'All people are not good'. :)
What I'm going to say now has no direct relation to anything I said above. In a very few cases, a victim may misinterpret the evidence, and very rarely, a woman can falsely accuse a man of a crime he hasn't committed. Many countries have laws protecting the identity of the victim. These countries should also consider promulgating laws to protect the identity of the accused until proven guilty. A media trial can ruin any person's life. However, the law enforcement agencies must try to unearth all the evidence in such cases. A criminal shoudn't be let off the hook.
No doubt we need more open debate, better laws, more efficient state machinery and better people to reduce the gap between the number of reported cases and the number of convictions.
To me flirtatious behavior is not an invitation to rape.