Re: PMLN versus the army
It is a question of whether constitution of Pakistan is supreme or army. According to constitution army is subservient of PM and civilian government and constitution of the country. It is a fact army has repeatedly violated the constitution which you never see in the history of civilized countries of the world. Look at this video and decide yourself what is the major problem in Pakistan. Do you feel any regret after watching this history repeats itself video.
Re: PMLN versus the army
^ don't compare Pakistan with the civilised world. Everywhere else the corrupts that are ruling us would have been forced to resign and banned from politics. When the politicians have skeletons in the their wardrobes, army will always be on top. They know their weak points and will use them to their advantage.
Re: PMLN versus the army
^ don't compare Pakistan with the civilised world. Everywhere else the corrupts that are ruling us would have been forced to resign and banned from politics. When the politicians have skeletons in the their wardrobes, army will always be on top. They know their weak points and will use them to their advantage.
Yes i agree that politicians have skeletons in their wardrobes... my two questions
1) Who created this breed of politicians? isn't it Field Marshal Ayoub Khab, Yehya Khan, Zia ul Haq, Hameed Gul and Pervaiz Musharaf?
2) and most importantly, why didn't they hold them for their crimes? why they issue NROs, and join hands with likes of Pervaiz Illahi and Shk Rasheed etc?
please answer them precisely... i hope you do reply now...
Re: PMLN versus the army
^ don't compare Pakistan with the civilised world. Everywhere else the corrupts that are ruling us would have been forced to resign and banned from politics. When the politicians have skeletons in the their wardrobes, army will always be on top. They know their weak points and will use them to their advantage.
Yes i agree that politicians have skeletons in their wardrobes... my two questions
1) Who created this breed of politicians? isn't it Field Marshal Ayoub Khab, Yehya Khan, Zia ul Haq, Hameed Gul and Pervaiz Musharaf?
2) and most importantly, why didn't they hold them for their crimes? why they issue NROs, and join hands with likes of Pervaiz Illahi and Shk Rasheed etc?
please answer them precisely... i hope you do reply now...
Re: PMLN versus the army
Yes i agree that politicians have skeletons in their wardrobes... my two questions
1) Who created this breed of politicians? isn't it Field Marshal Ayoub Khab, Yehya Khan, Zia ul Haq, Hameed Gul and Pervaiz Musharaf?
2) and most importantly, why didn't they hold them for their crimes? why they issue NROs, and join hands with likes of Pervaiz Illahi and Shk Rasheed etc?
please answer them precisely... i hope you do reply now...
the dictators don't need to hold any one accountable, the corrupt individuals who rule the country suit them. They don't need to come forward and rule, when these civilians start showing eyes the generals have their weak points handy to keep them in line. When people remind our current breed of politicians of the norms of democracy in the west, they tell us that our atmosphere is different. I agree is different, that's why in most Muslim countries dictators are needed to keep the people in check.
Re: PMLN versus the army
:k: yh cheez ehsan bhai 
Re: PMLN versus the army
Yes i agree that politicians have skeletons in their wardrobes... my two questions
1) Who created this breed of politicians? isn't it Field Marshal Ayoub Khab, Yehya Khan, Zia ul Haq, Hameed Gul and Pervaiz Musharaf?
2) and most importantly, why didn't they hold them for their crimes? why they issue NROs, and join hands with likes of Pervaiz Illahi and Shk Rasheed etc?
please answer them precisely... i hope you do reply now...
Brother, isn't your logic weird?
If a dictator issues NROs and bring in Dogs and P*gs in Parliament, then instead of saying that these dogs and p*gs are Na-pak and thus should not be in parliament, would you start supporting dogs and p*gs and talking against dictators that why they brought in dogs and p*gs ... and since military dictators did bring them, we should love those dogs and p*gs? ...
Or ... We should start thinking of ways to get rid these dogs and p*gs from parliament ... do some procedure to make parliament 'Paak' and meanwhile also curse dictators who nurtured and brought dogs and p*gs into parliament?
Anyhow, you asked specific questions ... so let me answer what I can:
1) Who created this breed of politicians? isn't it Field Marshal Ayoub Khab, Yehya Khan, Zia ul Haq, Hameed Gul and Pervaiz Musharaf?
These bread of politicians were created by Allah (as Azaab-e-Illahi for Pakistanis), though some of them got introduced by dictators, especially Ayub and Zia. Ayub gave introduced his adopted son Bhutto and Zia introduced his adopted son Shareef. Both Bhutto and Shareef played their role in destroying Pakistan ... Shareef in this respect destroyed Pakistan several notch more than Bhutto and his progenies, still both did.
But then, one cannot just blame dictators, because People who vote them also played their role. Most voted them on ethnic background or selfish reasons, and never cared what these thugs do with the country .. well, even seeing what these thugs are capable of doing, still they voted same crooks and corrupts into power.
Fortunately, Musharraf did not introduced any thug as his son, but nevertheless, gave life to some corrupt politicians ... but none were/are comparable to Bhuttos or Shareefs in their corruption, nepotism and mismanagement.
it was unfortunate, as I believe dictators, especially Musharraf (as I had hope with him), instead of bringing NRO to give crooks and thugs a new life, he should have used rope and confiscation of wealth.
2) and most importantly, why didn't they hold them for their crimes? why they issue NROs, and join hands with likes of Pervaiz Illahi and Shk Rasheed etc?
I do not think that Pervaiz Illahi or Shk Rasheed are comparable in corruption, nepotism, and looting of Pakistan as much as Shareef Brothers, Zardari or BeNazir ... but you are right that dictator should not have joined hands with any person who even had perception of being corrupt.
But all that does not mean ... people like Bhuttos, Zardaris and especially Shareefs can be taken as honest and respectable, or anyone support them ... as they are nothing but curse on Pakistan. By supporting thugs, person become partner in looting, corruption and destruction of Pakistan. Supporting these thugs also mean one is partner in torment, misery and suffering that Pakistanis are going through because these thugs instead of spending money on Pakistanis steel and transfer that abroad.
Re: PMLN versus the army
Panamaleaks Continued
**
Najam Sethi**
TFT Issue: 29 Apr 2016
[HR][/HR]
The Panamaleaks story is not about to die down. Several new developments are in the offing that will keep the subject alive and kicking.The PMLN government has succumbed to public pressure and written to the Chief Justice of Pakistan to set up a Commission of Inquiry comprising sitting Supreme Court judges instead of retired ones as originally proposed by Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.
But the opposition has rejected the Terms of Reference (TORs) unilaterally proposed by the government. However, indications are that if the opposition mounts pressure via the streets the government may relent and open negotiations for consensual TORs. In the event, it may take a couple of months to approve the consensual TORs.But the delay is not likely to bail the prime minister out.
In the next week or so, another long list of Pakistanis with off-shore companies is expected to hit headlines and there is no knowing whether he or his immediate family members will escape the net.Much the same may be said of Mr Asif Zardari and the Bhuttos, or indeed Imran Khan and leading members of the PTI.
This is bound to impact the budding alliance of opposition parties. If the other party leaders are clean, the opposition will get stronger. If they are not, the wind will be taken out of their sails. As it is, the PPP is wary of allying with the PTI because it fears the skeletons in its own cupboard may spill out or, worse, the agitation may provoke the “third umpire” to step in and wrap up the game.
That is why Khurshid Shah, the PPP leader of the opposition, has advised Imran Khan to stay put in Punjab instead of touring Sindh and whipping up anti-corruption fever there in exchange for joining hands with him in Islamabad against the PMLN.Matters have escalated to the level of GHQ too. The army chief, General Raheel Sharif, first gave a statement linking corruption directly to terrorism, implying that since the military was leading the fight against terrorism it had every right to target and uproot corruption too.
Shortly thereafter, following criticism that the army shouldn’t stray from its constitutional writ, and his reference to “across the board accountability”, the chief won public favour by announcing some spring-cleaning of his own. A story was leaked about the dismissal or removal from service of two generals and five other officers for corrupt practices while serving in the Frontier Corps Balochistan in 2013-14.
Initially, this was “breaking news” that seemed to suggest that the military was definitely interested in pushing the anti-corruption agenda apolitically. But soon questions began to be asked about the timing of the leak when the dismissals had routinely been carried out almost a year ago and the punishments seemed unduly soft compared to the nature of the allegations and the high rank of the main accused.
The fact that the ISPR has still not come clean suggests that the motive of the leak was to try and cash in on public sentiment against the civilian politicians and elevate the army chief to heroic proportions once again, in contrast to the pygmy civilians in the firing line.Several PMLN leaders like Khawaja Asif and Rana Sanaullah are going out of their way to appear sanguine. The former says the PM and his family are squeaky clean and the “third umpire” on whom Imran Khan is constantly banking has melted away. The latter claims that if Imran Khan ventures to make trouble in Punjab, he will be dealt with appropriately.
Meanwhile, the prime minister has embarked on a tour of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab during which he will address public rallies, proclaim his innocence and highlight the achievements of his regime. All this is to create the public perception that Panamaleaks is water off the duck’s back and Imran Khan’s desperate histrionics are in vain.A word of caution, however, is in order. There are some gaping holes in the account of Mr Sharif’s sons which could come back to haunt the family in the commission’s findings regardless of the TORs.
The government may also be advised to negotiate a peaceful way out of this crisis instead of precipitating another one by unleashing the police against peaceful protestors marching on to besiege the prime minister’s estate in Raiwind. The last thing the government should risk is a repeat of what happened in Model Town, Lahore, two years ago. Certainly, if there are conspirators afoot to destabilize the government to downfall-point, a few dead bodies on the streets will definitely yield dividends.We need a powerful judicial commission to sift the wheat from the chaff.
Tax evasion and money laundering are crimes of corruption and must be exposed. But owning offshore companies, like offshore bank balances, is not illegal, if assets and funds are sourced to legitimate tax-paid earnings. Tarring every offshore company beneficiary with the brush of corruption is neither fair nor just.
Re: PMLN versus the army
^^^ Najam Sethi ... a corrupt person writing for corrupt. If NS would ask him he would not hesitate to write that Taj Mahal in Agra and Paramids in Egypt were built by NS. :)
Lagta hay army must have learned their lesson by now and they do not have to care for politicians ... rather, they have enough military and moral might to punish corrupts and thugs ruling, looting and destroying Pakistan. It means ... army do not need to use ropes to make someone kath-putli ... but now, army should start using ropes to do something better, clean Pakistan from unwanted corrupt politicians, bureaucrats, police and judiciary. Anyhow, who ever held public office and have wealth that is unaccountable, should see the rope. Right? :)
Army should not be scared of article 6, as this is suppose to punish people doing high treason, and high treason is not done against constitution (what corrupts have written to serve their purpose ... and today even interpret it wrongly) but high treason is working against the state (country). Here, till now army has not done anything against the state but these so-called politicians have. Even though Politicians wrote the constitution, they violate constitution everyday. Actually, according to constitution, Pakistan has no parliament, because most in parliament are corrupts and corrupts cannot contest election nor can get into parliament.
Army should know that they joined armed forces to serve Pakistan fearlessly. Only some corrupt politicians can think that they can scare armed forces with article 6, and then considering that anyone who stands up against their corruption, to save Pakistan from destruction, has done high treason ... How stupid? :)
Re: PMLN versus the army
^ don't compare Pakistan with the civilised world. Everywhere else the corrupts that are ruling us would have been forced to resign and banned from politics. When the politicians have skeletons in the their wardrobes, army will always be on top. They know their weak points and will use them to their advantage.
Why not?? If not, it is a shame that Pakistan was founded in 1947, about 70 years ago, once civilized before partition had become uncivilized through passage of times.
Your notion is wrong. What skeleton ZAB was hiding in his wardrobe? He was illegally removed and arrested and ultimately killed in false murder case. He was honest, competent, brought Pakistan back to its feet from disaster of 1971.
I am not talking about about corruption of politicians, I am talking about the very basic question about constitution and army's role. Under what authority army is over riding its powers knowing that they could not control corruption in their own ranks because of no accountability. Forget about constitution, what moral ground they had when they booted out legally elected governments because of corruption or for any other reasons?
Re: PMLN versus the army
the dictators don't need to hold any one accountable, the corrupt individuals who rule the country suit them. They don't need to come forward and rule, when these civilians start showing eyes the generals have their weak points handy to keep them in line. When people remind our current breed of politicians of the norms of democracy in the west, they tell us that our atmosphere is different. I agree is different, that's why in most Muslim countries dictators are needed to keep the people in check.
If dictators aka generals need not to hold any one accountable!
If generals need weak points of politicians to blackmail them
And that is for their personal gains, then it is Generals we should go after and not the politicians as they play in the hands of Generals??? Isn't this you are saying?
Re: PMLN versus the army
Brother, isn't your logic weird?
If a dictator issues NROs and bring in Dogs and P*gs in Parliament, then instead of saying that these dogs and p*gs are Na-pak and thus should not be in parliament, would you start supporting dogs and p*gs and talking against dictators that why they brought in dogs and p*gs ... and since military dictators did bring them, we should love those dogs and p*gs? ...
Or ... We should start thinking of ways to get rid these dogs and p*gs from parliament ... do some procedure to make parliament 'Paak' and meanwhile also curse dictators who nurtured and brought dogs and p*gs into parliament?
Anyhow, you asked specific questions ... so let me answer what I can:
1) Who created this breed of politicians? isn't it Field Marshal Ayoub Khab, Yehya Khan, Zia ul Haq, Hameed Gul and Pervaiz Musharaf?
These bread of politicians were created by Allah (as Azaab-e-Illahi for Pakistanis), though some of them got introduced by dictators, especially Ayub and Zia. Ayub gave introduced his adopted son Bhutto and Zia introduced his adopted son Shareef. Both Bhutto and Shareef played their role in destroying Pakistan ... Shareef in this respect destroyed Pakistan several notch more than Bhutto and his progenies, still both did.
But then, one cannot just blame dictators, because People who vote them also played their role. Most voted them on ethnic background or selfish reasons, and never cared what these thugs do with the country .. well, even seeing what these thugs are capable of doing, still they voted same crooks and corrupts into power.
Fortunately, Musharraf did not introduced any thug as his son, but nevertheless, gave life to some corrupt politicians ... but none were/are comparable to Bhuttos or Shareefs in their corruption, nepotism and mismanagement.
it was unfortunate, as I believe dictators, especially Musharraf (as I had hope with him), instead of bringing NRO to give crooks and thugs a new life, he should have used rope and confiscation of wealth.
2) and most importantly, why didn't they hold them for their crimes? why they issue NROs, and join hands with likes of Pervaiz Illahi and Shk Rasheed etc?
I do not think that Pervaiz Illahi or Shk Rasheed are comparable in corruption, nepotism, and looting of Pakistan as much as Shareef Brothers, Zardari or BeNazir ... but you are right that dictator should not have joined hands with any person who even had perception of being corrupt.
But all that does not mean ... people like Bhuttos, Zardaris and especially Shareefs can be taken as honest and respectable, or anyone support them ... as they are nothing but curse on Pakistan. By supporting thugs, person become partner in looting, corruption and destruction of Pakistan. Supporting these thugs also mean one is partner in torment, misery and suffering that Pakistanis are going through because these thugs instead of spending money on Pakistanis steel and transfer that abroad.
Bro. Same here, i see your logic totally lost...
If Generals are there to guard the gates!!! Then why thet let pigs and dogs inside in first place, it is not that that politicians sneaked in, it is they were invited (nro) and now you want me to call the politicians dogs and pigs and the one who brought them saint...not possible...
And regarding pervaiz illahi, i think either it is your love for him or you have got no idea..
Ch brothers have got wajahat force in Gujrat, which provides shelter to poor and security to all kinds ot out-laws and then helps them in kidnapping for ransom, extortion and what not crime...Shahbaz Sharif, started operation against them in late 90s that is where PMLN lost these two...
But since ch bros are best boot polishers around so yes they need to have sympathy...
Re: PMLN versus the army
http://dunya.com.pk/news/authors/detail_image/x15291_91089068.jpg.pagespeed.ic.HauyPgQo8Y.webp
Re: PMLN versus the army
Re: PMLN versus the army
Army is to blind PMLN/PPP supporters what Jews and Hindus are to Mullahs - the root cause of all evil.
It's far more convenient to blame Army and Jews if you're Mullah than take some responsibility of your own action. There's always a bloody boogeyman to cry about, never your own faults.
Typical xenophobic, hawkish mentality that looks for scapegoats in others.
