'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Actually, I wrote government servant as that is what Jahula in Pakistan understand. Word I should have used is ‘Public servant’ and in place of government it should be state (that belongs to all).

Some Public servants get permanently employed by state (Army, bureaucracy, judiciary, police, etc) and others get elected for specific periods (politicians in parliament, senate, Ministries, etc). There is no difference between them as far as state is concerned. All are employed to serve the state and citizens of that state honestly and competently.

Some Public servants have more authority than others, but regardless, all are equals and all have their own rights and duties within state. Similarly, civilians (or those who are not public servant) also have their rights and duties within state.

For instance, Parliamentarians can make (enact) laws but could not interpret them as that is duty of judges. In same way, Prime Ministers and Ministers (with approval of Prime Minister) can make policies, but cannot implement those polices, as implementing those policies is job of bureaucracies (Prime Minister and Ministers can only direct bureaucracies (secretaries level) and if they do not implement than Ministers can serve them show cause notice, have their hearings, and if found intentional guilt then could suspend or sack the person (person can still go to court against that sacking questioning above authority).

On the other hand, to arrest people breaking laws of the country (including bribes, nepotism, mal-practices, commissions, misuse of power, etc) is of police and law enforcement agencies. They could arrest any law breakers and that includes Prime Minister for any breaking of law (for instance, a lowest police servant can arrest even Prime Minister if Prime Minister did any illegal work).

But if law enforcement agencies are not doing their duty than it becomes right of any person in country to use all force they have to stop crimes and illegal works … and that means, if Army act when seeing Prime Minister or other civil servants (including politicians, bureaucracy, etc) breaking law and getting away with it, then army have every right with all their force to act against such law breakers (just like any civilian).

Anyhow, topic is about sacking one civil servant (bureaucracy, army officers, generals, or anyone) by another civil servant (Prime Minister or Minister). Such could only happen if there is reason and that also after following correct procedure (as I mentioned in my last post). It is constitutional right of all citizens including civil servants to get treated justly and without biases. If Prime Minister, Minister or any civil servant do not follow the procedure and sack someone to fulfil their whim than they violate right of other Pakistani (that is breaking constitution) and should be punished severely (if they can get punished … what in Pakistan, no other civil servant dare to do, but army men can do).

For instance, if a person (one in higher authority) tries to sack a civil servant (of lowest cadre), than it is right of that person to not accept or resist such illegal sacking, rather act against the person illegally using his authority with full force, as the person (one with higher authority) once oversteps and starts doing illegal things including illegally sacking, than they loses all authority. Higher the authority they have, punishment to them should be as severe, as they have opportunity to harm the state much more than people with lower authority.

Note: Authority is not God given right, but is given to people (politicians) with condition that they would use it for the benefit and best interest of country. They can only command respect and security of their post, if they follow all rules legally and should not get involved in wrong doings (corruption, nepotism, commissions, misuse of power, illegal sackings, illegal transfers, illegal promotions, etc). If they would get involved in wrong doings then every citizen has right to kick their ass if they can).

All world democracies work on the principle I mentioned, and that is the reason no one violates their authority knowing the consequence. In Pakistan, most civil servants (Politicians, bureaucracies, etc) violate their authority regularly and in some cases get punished by people with means to punish them.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

^ I'm sorry. I forgot I'm a pathetic good-for-nothing bloody civilian who forgot that a military person descends from the heavens, can never break any law and has the responsibility and capability of identifying corruption and punishing it. My apologies.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

I think you did not read what I wrote. :)

All Pakistanis are civilians equal to each other, some with authority and some without. So, do not cry. :)

If any civilian, including Prime Minister, do not follow the rules then that civilian should get punished by anyone who can punish them. Unfortunately, civilian with authorities get away from Punishment, but occasionally they do get punished ... and for some Saudi Arabia, America and other world countries come to save as they consider that civilian their paid dog.

Re: ‘PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason’

:cb:

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

kaka you are again wrong, you should be sorry. its not all military persons who are from heavens, its only mush and the likes. not zia or ayub etc etc

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

That authority vests with the judiciary and not with a man with the gun.

If you believe that possession of weapons determine authority, then it is obvious that either you or most of the civilized world has a distorted view of society. I am hoping that it is the former.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

kya karon... I am a good-for-nothing civilian who doesn't know what democracy is and who doesn't know how to run businesses and doesn't know who has committed crimes and who doesn't even know how to run banks.

I am sorry, I should keep my mouth shut in such important matters of the state. All intelligence, ability and authority is the property of the man with a gun.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

I still think you did not read what | wrote (or maybe read but did not understood), else you would not have made such comment :)

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Yes, I read it. And it was disgusting.

In all civilized countries of the world, the army chief is subordinate to the chief executive of the country and the chief executive can fire the military personnel whenever they want. IT IS NOT the responsibility or the authority of the military to see if the government is working properly or not.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Hmmm... Does that mean taking law in your hand and do whatever legal or illegal?

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Sa1eem bhai is saying that if I fire the guy guarding my house, that person has the authority to forcibly evict me from my house using the gun I bought for him. Sick.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Tell me, if Prime Minister (or any Minister, or any powerful person in Pakistan) starts fancying wife of his neighbour, then kidnaps her.

Neighbour goes to police who decline to even make FIR. Anyhow, somehow neighbour got FIR done and takes Prime Minister to court, but judge in court gives decision that Prime Minister did not kidnap his wife, rather his wife run away to Prime Minister for her safety as he beats her, so now he should divorce his wife and let Prime Minister keep his wife.

A: Should this person being law abiding citizen, accept Court verdict and wrongs done by Prime Minister, divorce his wife and forget her?

Or

B: Take a gun and shoot not only judge by Prime Minister too?

I think from your posts, you think neighbour should follow ‘A’ … but I believe neighbour should follow ‘B’.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

^ If the neighbour has 'B' kind of thinking, she would run away before anyone kidnaps her. You never know, he might get mad at her some day.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

You are wrong again. House does not belong to Prime Minister but citizens of Pakistan.

Prime Minister is only Head-servant in the house. Prime Minister do not have any right or authority to fire the guard without any good reason and without following procedure. If Head-servant (prime Minister) would do that, not follow the procedure but to fulfill his whim illegally and without any good reasons fire the guard, then guard has all right to shoot the Head-servant (Prime Minister) dead.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

^ Sa1eem bhai.. koi kaha suna bura laga ho tau ma'af ker daina. Ghussa thanda rakhna. I apologise for all the bakwas I did. And for the sake of your family, friends and neighbours, I sincerely hope you do not own a gun.

Over and out.

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Bhai, aap kuch parhtay bhie ho yea bus impulse per hee likh daytay ho? :)

Re: ‘PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason’

:khumar: nice arguments guys

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Well, tell that to NS, as he try to finger those who not only have guns but are trained to kill. :)

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Hmmm.. Very interesting logic..!!!

I guess you are living in UK.. try sometime this logic in UK..
Sorry.. don't even try.. just go to a police station and tell them you will kill people if they are seen committing a crime. Assure them you are not joking.. you can fire a shot or two in the air to make them believe you..

Hmmm.. should be interesting to know your views on suicide bombers..

And Saleem bhai.. Lal masid clerics were after all justified when they threatened to throw acid on uncovered women faces. After all they were also trying to implement the divine commandments????

Re: 'PML-N government will try Musharraf for treason'

Salim saheb, so what this all means? what are you trying to say, please say it openly. Mush didn't commit a crime by ousting an elected govt?