PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

Agaya apni Aukaat pay Ganja

Pakistan is under attack and he wants Musharraf

:smack:

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

I agree

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

Your statement is propaganda of pro-Taliban elements and anti-Musharraf elements, without any truth in it.

Anyhow, what Mush did? Sent Pakistan army and people into Afghanistan to fight for Americans and called that Jihad against Shatanic government in Afghanistan … what Zia did for Americans and we are suffering even today because of that (Americans under Zia’s approval gave many Pakistani with Kharjee mentality ‘gruella war’ training and armed them, and flooded Pakistan with AK47 and other weapons)?

As for Taliban Kharjees killing innocent Pakistanis and fighting Pakistan army, it is nothing to do with 9/11 or Pakistani decision to facilitate Americans. It is only propaganda of pro-Taliban elements in Pakistan, that Taliban Kharjees are loose in Pakistan because of Afghan war.

Fact is that, Taliban took over Afghanistan same way what they are doing in Pakistan, Killing innocent Afghans and fighting Afghan army (Afghan government forces or Rabbani). Today they are trying to fulfill same agenda in Pakistan, that is to install Taliban like government in Pakistan, nothing else, so they are killing innocent Pakistanis and fighting Pakistan army (but they do not know that they can only harm Pakistan but not capture Pakistan).

Regardless of 9/11 or Musharraf decisions, Taliban Kharjees would have started fitna in Pakistan and that is what they have started. Rather, Musharraf decision and fall of Taliban in Afghanistan was good for Pakistan, because with Taliban government in Afghanistan, Pakistani kharjees would have been in much stronger position then today and would have created a bigger fitna what they have created.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^^^Sa1eem bro what exactly is your argument against trying Mushy for treason (I think all judges and politicians involved should also face article 6)? If a person steals 500 rupees s/he will faces a jail term... than why shouldn't people like Mushrraf face justice?

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^^^Brother, regardless of the way Musharraf ruled Pakistan, that I think was most beneficial years for Pakistan …

To me, it is not treason that army seeing corruption, nepotism, mismanagement, and misconduct, took over the reign of country. To me, treason is corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct of those who are in power, as it is these things that harm country, not who rules and in what way they got into power. As for laws and constitution, they are suppose to be there to serve and protect the country, not harm the country ... and it should also protect all steps taken to protect the country from corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct of those ruling.

I know that people whose pocket or ideology got hurt, would not accept my view of treason, thus leaving that argument aside, in my opinion, there are many arguments on 'use or not use' of article 6, some I am putting down:

1: I think if article 6 is used only on Musharraf then it would be selective justice. If article 6 has to be used then it should include all politicians that abetted Zia-ul-Haq as well as Musharraf, and that includes Nawaz as well as Imran. Article 6 should also include all judges that abetted Zia as well as Musharraf, and that includes Iftikhar Chaudhary as well as most present Supreme Court Judges. Article 6 should also include all journalists who wrote anything good about dictator and martial law, and that includes most present Pakistani journalists … and so on.

2: Article 6 is farce law, as taking over country if it is run badly is not treason. Rather, article 6 should be applied on government servants and politicians who do corruption, nepotism, mismanagement, and show misconduct when in power, as that harms the country most and thus is really treason, certainly treason compared to steps that army takes with all good intention, to stabilise country again.

3: Pakistani politicians are corrupt and once Shareef family joined politics, they have bribed and neutralised all government institutions. Nawaz even tried to neutralised armed forces.

As the things are, bureaucracy, police and judiciary are in the pocket of politicians, and most on top of these institutions are paid servants of some politicians (especially Thug Nawaz). Thus the way Pakistani institutions are working, it is impossible that anyone can do anything with these corrupt lots, and with time, Pakistani politicians would make Pakistan a complete economic wrack, and probably an unviable confederation.

It is only Army that can intervene if corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct of politicians go above un-repairable limits (not because it is their duty, but because rest of institutions are neutralised … most are corrupts and are paid servants of politicians).

4: I know that, seeing corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct of politicians, it is most likely that army would intervene again, if not today then tomorrow. Thus, if politician would try to control armed forces using farce laws politicians have made for their own safeguard, then it is obvious that next intervention would see lots of bloodshed in Pakistan, and then same people who are quacking a lot about democracy (without caring about corruption, nepotism, mismanagement, and misconduct politicians are doing in the name of democracy … as these quacks are partner in crime or could do nothing but quack) would start accusing armed forces of killing Politicians

Such killing would only destabilise Pakistan and would be bad news for federation.

5: The way things are going, I can even see that Pakistan is on verge of disintegration. Ground is set the way it was in 1971, when politically both wings were divided and today all four provinces are politically divided.

I feel Sindh is already on verge of leaving confederation, especially if next election results would be as it was in 2013 election. I believe PPP and MQM are holding together because of this scenario, as for Sindh to go its own way, both parties have to be on board.

Thus, in my opinion, trying to curtail action of armed forces using farce laws would be bad news for country and with time, it would only backfire with horrendous results.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^ Again, corruption, nepotism, etc are excuses. According to you, army is not part of this society and they descended from heavens, bilkul paak saaf. To me, they are as corrupt as us bloody civilians are. Only difference is that they have guns and have get their corruption 'legalized'.

I have asked you before, and I ask you again. You cry so much about "corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct" of politicians. Please let me know of any prominent politician or bearucrat who was convicted of "corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct" during Mush time. If you cannot, then according to your own logic Mush and military have aided and abetted corruption.

Ayub Khan, Zia and Mush have produced and promoted corrupt politicians, not quelled them. Finally, If some people are thinking of leaving the federation, it is primarily because of the idiotic actions by the army, not politicians.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

LOL!

Yeah that's why St. Mush introduced NRO. You still think you argument holds any ground?

For likes of you, Pakistan has been on the verge of so called disintegration since the day it was formed! The country wasn't meant to survive a year and look how far it made it despite all the disasters, crises, challenges, controversies since 1947. If I were you I wouldn't worry too much because sceptics, cynics, critics or haters -whatever you wanna call them - have been fantasizing about the final dakha to this girti hui deewar since the last 67 years.

Stop defending these filthy criminals and enjoy your shab e baraat. Pray for country's success , peace and longlife. :)

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

You are right that whenever army took over, they spared corrupts, rather made them their partners. Nevertheless, all army rule was cleaner than political rule and Pakistan progressed more then political rule.

Now answer me:

What difference does it make if some thug politician rule the country or army general rule the country, other then better government under military general and corrupt governmetn under political thugs?

What is treason to you? ... harming the country or giving the country hope?

Is corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct of thug politicians ruling the country, not treason?

Is it not treason that those who was put into power to serve the country and keep the interest of the country above all interests, loot and plunder the country, sell the country for their personal interest, do all sort of nepotism and mismanagement for personal gains, show misconduct and break laws all the time?

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

You are right that, Pakistan survived since 1947. I am sure ignorance is big bliss for some. LOL,

Pakistan only survived from 1947 to 1971 and then it got divided into two. Before that division also Pakistan got divided politically … Mujib party getting most of East Pakistan assembly seats and Bhutto getting most of West Pakistan assembly seats. Result, country got divided into two.

Today, situation is same. Most from Punjab voted for NS (just like Bengal voted for Mujib) and Sindh voted for (PPP and MQM). Thus, the country got divided politically into two on basis of provincialism. Obviously, if this trend of voting would continue (by hook or crook) than no one outside Punjab could have any political role and that is recipe for breakup and history repeating again.

Baluchistan is already looking for leaving federation. Kharjees killing is making situation verse. For Sindh, cut-off from rest of Pakistan means safe from Kharjee fitna. Many in KPK also like to leave Pakistan, many wanting to join Afghanistan. World powers are also showing their interest in dividing Pakistan.

Present constitutional right of province is that, they can stop people as well as goods movement (enter or leave) between other provinces and their province. Provinces can also have different taxes, wage structure of government employees, as well as laws. So, what is needed more? Obviously, if separation movement starts then all would be constitutionally legal.

So ... get out of your dream and live in reality.

Actually, the concern I showed was mentioned by one PPP leader (I do not remember his name) on one TV talk show. He said that some powers have used 2013 election to create ground for breaking of Pakistan, as same situation was created before 1971 election and break-up of Pakistan, when politically East and West Pakistan got divided.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason


Constitution.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

Is constitution to serve the country and make life of people better, or constitution is there to make some ruling class exploit the country with their looting, plunder, corruption, nepotism, mismanagement and misconduct, and rule like king?

If politician bring amendment in constitution, bringing law that Pakistan should be turned into Kingdom and Prime Minister should have power of monarch with right to loot, plunder, do corruption, do nepotism, do mismanagement and show misconduct … plus laws should not be applicable on any parliamentarians

Or

All laws in Pakistan should be according to Hindu laws

OR

Whatever … then … would you accept all that?

[As all above can be done in theory, especially by type of corrupt politicians we have in Pakistan … actually, without even making law, they are doing the same]

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

army is good, army is clean, army can do whatever they want, no one has any right to question them, and most important of all, i recall that you believe man with the gun as all the right to do whatever he wants.
by the way its same army who couldn't stop some idiots from killing pakistan's guests in army's backyard.

lagay raho saleem bhai...

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

In history (or even in current times) there'd been worst cases of political divisions in countries like UK, USA, France and along with many other European countries who now make in the top of the list of 'mature and successful' democracies. You're point is?

You have some dangerously distorted views of Pakistan's history and current situation, in fact they are downright delusional. I'm thinking to ignore whatever you have written as figment of your imagination but honestly dude, I gotta ask you, what exactly are you trying to achieve here? Yes Pakistan would break into 12 different pieces good Lord the country just had a first ever peaceful and successful democratic transition of power and the world is truly coming to end because the locals decided to play safe and selected the same old electables? Really? Is that your definition of crisis that's required to break the country? How old is Pakistan? How old is its democratic tradition? How established is our voting habit and tradition? What's the education level of country? How old is the free media? How standardized is our polling system? Has India been divided into 50 different states despite they having bigger problem with regionalism, they unlike Pakistan have quite a lot of separatist movements going on? So please spare us your doom and gloom fantasies. When you consider all these questions, it becomes crystal clear that Pakistan is indeed on the right track and her situation can only improve both gradually and drastically if only a strong democratic set up is in place.

I guess being an MQM supporter and having innate infatuation with breaking the country goes hand in hand? What's say?

Perhaps you don't know how democracies really work or how they are made to work. Instead of dreaming about Pakistan breaking into 7 different little pieces because Punjab votes for PMLN or Urdu speakers vote for MQM, how about you question things like why PTI gained power in KPK? Why PPP who once enjoyed status of an only national party now has a mere regional identity, why ANP got wiped out; why despite the culture of religious conservatism there's a significant dent on JI/JUI's vote bank; why PMLN emerged as sole winners from Punjab despite PTI also being the most influential and popular party there? Why the city of Karachi broke the chains of fears and stood up for PTI? Whats your views on the record breaking rigging that took place this election?

So please invest your energies into talking about something better and something that actually matters. We'll all find out when the country is on the verge of breaking apart, there will still be GS.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

Looks like your watch has stopped in the sixties and did not move after that. Get it repaired. Old is gold but it is also sold:)

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^^^ If politicians are corrupt, selfish, do nepotism, mismanagement and also guilty of misconduct, then no where country survives, especially when country is politically divided and also have reason to disintegrate. Army may not be Angel, but Pakistan only has one institution that tries to keep country intact, by hook or by crook, and that is armed forces.

Anyhow, treason case should go ahead if it is not selective, and all who could be persecuted do get persecuted, including Nawaz, Iftikhar, Kiyani, Imran and all others who at anytime since 1947 became guilty of article 6 and are alive or dead.

At least dead like Ayub, Yahya, Zia and Bhutto, could be declared as traitors.

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

Btw, I am just curious about the timing of this speech. Country is dark (loadshedding), burning (terrorism) and hurting (budget), but hell no.. lets prosecute an irrelevant general who came back out of his own will and not going to be charged anyway.

hello? RIP priorities? :konfused:

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^ why paving the way for rule of law has to be mutually exclusive with all the issues you mentioned above?

its not one person doing this, its government doing this. govt machinery can (and should) multitask unlike individuals

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^^^ I think you are right, that government can do many things simultaneously. I also believe that government should not be compromising when implementing laws.

Only thing that I would like to see is that, when law is applied, then it should not be selective, and that means, law should be applied on all who was part of any past martial law as well as those who assisted, abetted and cooperated with dictators, as article 6 include all of them as guilty of high treason.

That means, with Musharraf, Nawaz Shareef, Kiyani, Iftikhar Chaudhary, Imran Khan, and many more should be prosecuted too, and if found guilty, then all should be punished for high treason in same way (that would be according to constitution and constitution do not differentiate between them).

For instance, if Nawaz is found guilty of abetting with Zia … being in his cabinet, that also willingly, as even after Zia death he was appreciating Zia, then he should be punished of high treason too.

Is there any problem in that?

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

^ no problem at all, all who were part of it should be punished
but you need to set a "depth" level to cut-off this process. in terms of algorithms, when we traverse a graph/tree we do it to a certain level/ children, we do not do that to unlimited number of children. and parliament is free to set that cut-off limit, they've got all the mandate needed, they can pass any bill with their own votes.

and may be to your surprise, 18th amendment has already taken back the indemnity offered to mush's first LFO, they can safely start from his last emergency, and in that case, all those who you named above (N$, Kuch-kiya-nahi, CJ, IK) they will be saved nicely.

yeah i know, that's pretty much crooked, but welcome to democracy. when this democracy can vote a non-islamic law into enforcement, against sharia, sitting in a hall printed with 99 names of ALLAH SWT on its roof, following a constitution which says there will be no law against quran-o-sunnat and we happily accept that, then this democracy can do that as well, save some, and screw some.

that's democracy for you, fair and square (by the way before you start thinking i'm a military lover, let me tell you i'm not against democracy, i'm against this sort of democracy, where votes are counted, not weighted)

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Re: PM Nawaz Sharif: Musharraf to be tried under Article 6 for treason

This is sad. Mushy may have made some errors, and made some controversial decisions, but he held national interest above all, not his own personal interests. He doesn't have even 10% of the corruption that these landlord goons do who have been sucking the blood of the country in the name of democracy, when not even truly democratically elected (holding guns to people's heads, and submitting fake votes, and getting your entire biradari in Punjabi to vote for you cuz you own land there and likewise, you own other feudal lords' heads does not a democracy make).

Someone needs to hang nawaz sharif. Sharam on Pakistani people for voting an idiot BACK into office. It's like the American people voting in Bush again.