http://www.domini.org/openbook/unveiling_of_pakistan.htm
Came across this. I hope the sons of Ummah will behave better than depicted should the concept of Ummah were to materialize.
To the Mods:
This has everything to do with religion so please dont shift the blame towards Pakistan1 forum.
Thank you
The Patron
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
I think for that very reason Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib revoked the Quranic commands of ALLAH about Jihad, against Christians and praised Queen Victoria in many of his writtings.
I think Ahmedia jam'at should take care of christians of Pakistan more than that.
Verzion, What was the last time, you visited Pakistan to actually witness all that "injustice" against the christians?
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
Which writings? can you please qoute, thanks.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
[quote=“Verizon Came across this. I hope the sons of Ummah will behave better than depicted should the concept of Ummah were to materialize.[/QUOTE”]
Verizon Bhai,
Civil society in pakistan has been completely marginalized, Asma Jehangir’s human right activist treatment in Lahore recently was a clear signal from the fascist right.
Rights violation of minorities highlighted by this report have been known for sometime, yet we (muslims) have never bothered. Statement of that nutball Ijaz Ul Haq is symbolic of the general malais: “we will not change our laws even if 100,000 xtians are killed”…its this kind of self-righteous, fascist tendencies which will not allow even the idea of discourse in society.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
The person who sits at the desk next to me at the office is a Pakistani Catholic who gets deeply exasperated with people making assumptions about what it's like to be Christian in Pakistan.
She says that it's nowhere near as bad as what people in the West think it to be. The only time they would feel endangered would be during US wars against Muslim countries (she was thinking of Gulf War 1).
The funny thing is that a few of us Pakistanis from the office went for halwa puri at a restaurant with her and her husband (also a Pakistani Catholic).
We got acutely embarrased because there were other restaurant patrons around us who were Indian, but yet the husband launched into a loud anti-India and anti-Indian rant and we literally had to beg and plead with him to be quiet.
I guess I was stereotyping, but for some reason I had imagined Pakistan's Catholic community didn't participate in the whole Indo-Pak rivalry, I'd mentally labelled it as a Muslim-Hindu affair. But this women and her husband never avoid a chance to take cheap shots at India and Indians....
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
[quote]
We got acutely embarrased because there were other restaurant patrons around us who were Indian, but yet the husband launched into a loud anti-India and anti-Indian rant and we literally had to beg and plead with him to be quiet.
I guess I was stereotyping, but for some reason I had imagined Pakistan's Catholic community didn't participate in the whole Indo-Pak rivalry, I'd mentally labelled it as a Muslim-Hindu affair. But this women and her husband never avoid a chance to take cheap shots at India and Indians....
[/quote]
Cute, very cute. :)
Weren’t those three Paki singer sisters also Christian? (I know that narrows it down.)
From the first paragraph of that article it seems like the website is missionary own and run, they'll obviously take one or two isolated incidents out of context and over sensationalise them. Yes there are incidents of violence against Pakistani Christians but they are ignorable compared to what Muslims have to go through in Christian countries (a.k.a some of our friends and relatives in Britain and now in America). Also being considered Dhimmi is portrayed as unfair when it’s not, I wouldn’t mind being a protected religious minority in a non-Muslim country as long as I had my basic rights instead of being considered a normal citizen yet face discrimination.
I had a Christian friend for the few years that I was in Pakistan, nobody had a problem accepting him, his family wore Shalwar Kameez, spoke Punjabi with an influence of Hindko, ate Halaal meat in accordance with the Old Testament but when I asked how he worshipped and if they prayed Namaaz he said no they go to Girja-Ghar to sing Geet. His family were ‘menial’ labourers but he got free admission in the posh school because his parents and elder siblings were all the school caretakers but there are now also plenty of educated Pakistani Christian professionals too.
Christians and Sikhs have it pretty good in Pakistan, Hindus however probably face more discrimination than any other minority because of our differences with India and Pakis associate all Hindus with India.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
AQ 
Please dont call NYPD and have me arrested for saying salam. Thank you.
We are discussing Xtianity not your favorite Prophet. Think outside the box.
I was in Pakistan last year in September. Regarding “injustice” read my initial post again", with an open mind that is. I know its hard but try.
P.S Hint: the first three words of my opening post.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
can christian become defense minister in pakistan like in india or head of state
does the law of the land allows it?
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
What Maddy is saying is very true. Most Christians (like other minorities) in Pakistan are so afraid to speak ill of Pakistan’s policies towards minorities that they, even outside of Pakistan, tend to side with it, for fear of retribution against their families. Maddy doesn’t have a clue as to what happened to the Bishop of Faisalabad or the poor little Iqbal Masih for raising his voice.
These Christians he talks about are more Pakistanis (in fact indigenous to Pakistan) than the imported Mohajirs.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
“Benjamin Sisters” … they got popularity in the dark days Zia Ul Haq for a good reason, impression was being propagated that true Muslim girls do not perform in public.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
^ what load of siht..of course they do. they perform both in public and private.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
This web site has not been updated since 2003. Not hard to get a flaovr of the conditions:
July 5, 2003 - Roman Catholic priest, Rev. George Ibrahim, was killed outside of his parish in Renala Khurd, district Okara, 180 miles south of Islamabad. Very early in the morning, Rev. Ibrahim heard a noise outside of the parish and went to go investigate. A cook heard gunshots and ran outside to find Rev. Ibrahim dead. The local Christian community believes that Ibrahim was targeted because he helped the church to regain control of a Catholic school that had been seized by the government during the 1970s when private schools were nationalized. Ibrahim was also known to speak out on behalf of the poor Christian community.
June 15, 2003 - A committee in Baluchistan province is drafting up a sharia bill to be considered in the provincial assembly. The bill is supported by the Islamist MMA political party that holds power in Baluchistan. A similar bill has already been passed in the North West Frontier Province. (ANS/Barnabad Fund)
June 4, 2003 - Aslam Masih, a Christian accused of blasphemy, was acquitted by the Lahore High Court. Masih had been handed a double life sentence and a fine on May 7, 2002 by the Faisalabad Sessions Court (see May 7, 2002 below for more details). Masih’s life may still be in jeopardy, though, as Islamic militants target Christians who have been charged with blasphemy, even if they have been exonerated by the courts.
May 9, 2003 - Armed Muslim youths attacked a church 50km northeast of Lahore, beating up the Christians gathered inside and destroying pews and communion vessels. Mughal Masih, a Christian man, was set on fire and stabbed under the ribs as he ran towards the church. The youths were angered because the Christians chastised them for trying to block the entrance to the church and making derogatory remarks to women and girls. Police have refused to file a case under the blasphemy laws which punish those who defile a place of worship. (ANS/Barnabas Fund)
April 26, 2003 - Razia Masih, a 9-year-old Christian girl, was dumped off at her brother’s house after suffering torture and sexual abuse at the hands of her Muslim employers. Razia’s brother, Farooq, had attempted several times to have Razia returned home after he learned of the abuse. However, the Muslim family only returned her when they became afraid she would die from the injuries they inflicted. Razia reported that the beatings took place whenever her employers watched TV footage of the war in Iraq. She was told: “We will take revenge for the American bombing of Iraqi Muslim children from you because you are a Christian and an infidel.” Razia was beaten with a cricket bat, burned with an iron, slammed against a wall and sexually abused. She was hospitalized and continues to suffer mental anxiety.
April 26, 2003 - Ranjha Masih, a Christian accused of blasphemy, was found guilty under law 295/c. He was awarded a sentence of life imprisonment and a fine of 50,000 rupees. In 1998, Ranjha Masih participated in a protest rally against the country’s blasphemy laws immediately following the funeral of Bishop John Joseph, a Roman Catholic priest who committed suicide in protest of the draconian laws. During the protest a neon sign bearing verses from the Koran fell down, probably due to the large mass of people. Ranjha Masih, who boldly condemned the blasphemy laws, was accused of throwing stones at the sign.
April 1, 2003 - Christians gathered at the Civil Secretariat building to protest the death of Rehmat Masih (see March 6, 2003 below). Police clubbed Rehamt’s nephew, Bodi Masih, over the head as he was trying to climb over the wall to join the protest. Bodi was rushed to a hospital where he later died from head injuries.
March 31, 2003 - A Christian girl, 10-year-old Natasha Emmanuel, was lured into a Muslim neighbor’s home and brutally raped. It was reported that the neighbor had grown angry about the US-led war in Iraq and decided to exact punishment from a Christian.
March 21, 2003 - The Provincial Cabinet of the North West Frontier Province approved the implementation of Sharia law in the province. The Shariat law establishes that all existing laws must be brought into conformity with Islamic law. Rules such as those enforced by the Taliban are expected to take effect. Some of these rules include: a ban on music and cinema, all women must observe Islamic dress standards, compulsory Islamic education in all schools, and a complete ban on alcohol. Islamic punishments, including amputation and stoning, will also be carried out under the new law.
March 2003 - Anti-Christian sentiment is high due to the US invasion of Iraq. During “million man” protests in Karachi, Rawalpindi, and Lahore militants have declared Westerners and Christians the enemies of Islam and have encouraged true Muslims to take up jihad against the infidels.
March 19, 2003 - The Lahore High Court acquitted brothers Saleem and Rashid Masih after evidence presented to the court proved they had been entangled in the blasphemy case due to a civil land dispute. The Court ordered that the Christians be released from prison. (Compass)
January 24, 2003 - The Lahore High Court was scheduled to hear the final appeal in the case of Saleem and Rashid Masih (see May 11, 2000 below). The hearing was then postponed until January 31.
January 9, 2003 - An Islamic fundamentalist organization distributed pamphlets calling for violent jihad and instructing Muslims to “trace out Americans, Israelis, Russians and Westerners, whether they are army men or not and kill them whether they are in the city, air, sea or desert.” The pamphlet further instructed Muslims not to work with non-Muslims or make any contracts with them.
January 2003 - Three people injured during the attack in Chuyyanwai village (see December 25, 2002 below) have sustained permanent eye damage. Despite this, two of the men, as well as another man whose daughter was injured in the attack, have been named as suspects in the case. Some Muslim leaders have been calling for the release of a prayer leader initially accused of the crime by placing blame on the Christian community. (Compass Direct)
December 25, 2002 -Two Muslims threw hand grenades into a church in Chuyyanwai village, near Daska, during an evening worship service. Three young girls were killed in the attack, while at least 15 people were seriously injured. So far four people have been arrested in the Christmas attack, including a Muslim prayer leader who is believed to have incited the attack. The men are reported to be members of the banned Jaish-e-Mohammad extremist group. Another potential attack was foiled the previous day when ammunition was discovered outside the St. Thomas Protestant Church in Islamabad. (AFP, BBC)
October 22, 2002 - The Sindh High Court ruled that Christian Robin Peranditta was being illegally detained and ordered that he be immediately released from police custody. Robin had been held by the Karachi CIA since the attack against the Peace and Justice Institute on September 25. He was one of only two people not killed by the attackers and was being held by police as an eyewitness and suspect. Despite the Court’s order for Robin’s release, however, police forcibly re-arrested him in a Court stairwell as he was leaving the building. He was finally released a few days later. It was reported that Robin was tortured by the police in order to extract information. (Compass)
October 10, 2002 - The Muthida Majlas-e-Amal (MMA), a fundamentalist Muslim party won major gains during the country’s parliamentary elections. The MMA won the majority in Baluchistan and the Northwest Frontier Province. Known as open supporters of the Taliban regime, the MMA is calling for the implementation of Islamic sharia law in Pakistan.
September 25, 2002 - Two armed men forcibly entered the office of Adara-I-Amino Insaf (the Peace and Justice Institute) and proceeded to tie up and gag the workers they found inside. The gunmen then brutally murdered the Christian men by shooting them in the head at point blank range. At least two other people were injured in the attack, which took place in a 3rd floor office in the Rimpa Plaza, Karachi. (Reuters, AP)
September 21, 2002 - A Muslim man shot and killed seven members of his family because he was distressed that his daughter and son had both married Christians. Muhammed Nawaz killed his wife, two daughters, two sons and both his son-in-law and daughter-in-law. Nawaz’s wife, Kaneez Fatima, was brought up in a Christian family and converted to Islam shortly before marrying.
August 15, 2002 – Christian prisoner Ayub Masih was acquitted of blasphemy by the Supreme Court of Pakistan. The three justices presiding over the case found the charges against Ayub Masih to be fabricated and ordered that he be released from prison. Ayub spent almost six years in prison since his initial arrest in October 1996.
August 9, 2002 - In Texilla, six people died from an attack on John-C-Hemrich memorial Chapel on the premises of Christian Hospital Texilla. The chapel held a daily prayer service that began at 7:20 am. As the worshipers began leaving the building at about 7:45 am, three attackers threw a hand grenade of high intensity. One of the attackers died in the explosion, but the other two were able to run away. Three nurses died and 70 were injured.
August 5, 2002 - Murree Christian School, near the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, was attacked by approximately 4 or 5 terrorists. At least 6 were killed including 2 security guards and a retired teacher. Four others were wounded as well before being able to escape.
July 18, 2002 - Catholic Christian Anwar Kenneth was sentenced to death under blasphemy law 295/c. Kenneth was arrested in September 2001 for supposedly questioning whether Muhammad was the last prophet of God. Kenneth denies the charges.
June 30, 2002 - Augustine Ashiq Masih (alias Kungri Masih) was sentenced to death and fined 50,000 rupees under blasphemy law 295/c (see March 17, 2000 below for details on his case).
June 27, 2002 - A fifteen-year-old Christian boy died from torture by police during an investigation. Yaqoob Masih worked as a sweeper in the customs department near Christian Kachi Abadi. He was arrested on trumped up charges after witnessing a bribe between a van owner and customs officials. The van owner tried to convince Yaqoob to stay quiet but Yaqoob told the van owner he would tell the truth if asked. Fearful he would be exposed, the owner had Yaqoob arrested under false charges. The police tortured him, breaking his ribs and pulling out his fingernails among other things. Yaqoob was taken to the hospital later where he died from his wounds.
June 17, 2002 - Christian prisoner Pervez Masih was attacked by another inmate, who struck him in the face with a piece of glass while he was sleeping. The attacker also damaged Masih’s Bible. Guards eventually intervened. The incident was not revealed until several weeks later and Masih’s hearing on July 6. Masih was accused of blasphemy in April 2001. (Compass)
June 15, 2002 - A Muslim man, angry that a Christian teenager had rejected his sexual advances, threw acid in her face, causing severe burns. Seventeen-year-old Gulnaz worked at the Public Call Office (PCO) as a telephone operator. On June 14 Mr. Tariq Masih used the excuse of making a call to enter the PCO and tried to fondle Gulnaz. She firmly slapped him in the face. The next day, when she arrived at the office to pick up her final salary (she had quit due to insults and advances from Muslim men), Tariq threw acid on Gulnaz, making sure some went into her eyes and mouth.
June 11, 2002 - A Pakistani Muslim on trial for blasphemy was murdered be a fellow prisoner. The murder, which seems to have been accomplished with the complicity of prison staff, causes concern for Christian prisoners being held on blasphemy charges.
June 8, 2002 - Two Christian advocates were threatened for helping defend Christians accused of blasphemy. Mr. Pervaiz Aslam Chaudhry of Lahore and Mr. Khalil Tahir of Faisalabad have been labeled “enemies of Islam” and were told that they and their families would be killed. Both have requested police protection. (Compass)
May 15, 2002 - A judge in Feroze Wala reached a verdict in the case against six Muslim men accused of raping 8 Christian women (see May 6, 2000 below). The judge determined that there was not sufficient evidence despite eyewitness testimony and medical reports that confirmed the rape. Three of the accused were immediately released while the other three were sentenced to two years imprisonment and a fine for possession of weapons. However, since they have already spent nearly 2 years in prison since their initial arrest, they will be released within a matter of days. The women plan to appeal to the High Court. Meanwhile, the men are making threats to take revenge against the women and their families.
April 2002 - During the last week of April a Faisalabad court sentenced Aslam Masih to a double life sentence and a fine of 100,00 rupees despite irregularities in the case. Masih was arrested in 1998 and accused of defiling a Quran. At that time he was beaten and stabbed by an angry mob. Masih is planning to appeal to a higher court.
April 7, 2002 - Seven to eight Muslim youths interrupted a church service of the Presbyterian Church in Satrah, near Gujranwala, harassing church members and uttering derogatory remarks. The youths brandished automatic weapons, which they fired into the air. By the grace of God no one was hurt and the youths fled the scene after the pastor called for help on the church loudspeaker. It is believed the young men were connected to an Islamic militant group and had received training in Afghanistan. A few months earlier another area church had received a threat from the Muslim Fighter Group, warning the pastor that if the church did not cease its activities, the militants would “paint the walls of the churches with blood.”
March 18, 2002 - President Musharraf announced that Forman Christian College will be returned to the control of the Presbyterian Church in a ceremony on October 5, 2002. The college, along with other church-controlled institutions, was nationalized in 1972. This decision gives hope to the Christian community that other church properties might be returned in the future. (ANS)
March 17, 2002 - Unknown assailants threw hand grenades at worshippers in the Protestant International Church in Islamabad, killing five people, including two US citizens. Over 40 people were also injured in the attack. The church is located near the US Embassy in the diplomatic enclave. It is not known whether the attack was directed toward US citizens, specifically, or Christians in general. However, the security forces who were supposed to be guarding the church mysteriously disappeared at the time of the attack.
February 13, 2002 - The Supreme Court of Pakistan agreed to hear the case of Ayub Masih (see July 25, 2001) after admitting there were irregularities in his prosecution. The hearing is expected to take place within the next 2-3 months. Masih’s lawyer is hopeful that that he will be acquitted. (Compass)
January 13, 2002 - A bomb exploded inside a Christian church at G/8 Christian colony in Islamabad. The roof of the building collapsed, causing great structural damage. No one was in the church at the time the bomb went off.
November 9, 2001 - Waheed Paul, a Catholic Christian, was shot to death as he traveled to his job in Peshawar. (Compass)
November 4, 2001 – Unidentified pro-Taliban gunmen murdered Mr. Benjamin John, a Christian security guard of the Airport Security Force at Quetta International Airport, as he and four other Muslim security guards attempted to halt the gunmen from entering a prohibited area. The gunmen forced Mr. John to the floor in a hail of gunfire, but did not injure any of the Muslim guards.
October 28, 2001 – Five masked gunmen with “bags of guns and bullets” (AK47) rushed into Saint Dominic’s Church and opened fire on 60-100 worshipping Christians, murdering 16 people and screaming “Graveyard of Christians – Pakistan and Afghanistan,” “This is just a start,” and “Allah-u-Akbar” (God is Greater). Four children, four women, and eight men were slain in the attack, including the Pastor Emmanuel and a Muslim police officer, Mohammad Salim. On the bullet-riddled wall above the bodies, a biblical epitaph was painted in red: “We want peace, order and harmony.”
August 9, 2001 – The dead body of a 23-year-old Bible College student was found outside of his church along with a letter that said “Stop Preaching to Muslims”. The Christian man, identified only as Sheraz, was kidnapped on August 2 as he left his place of work in Lahore. Militant Muslims are suspected in the murder.
July 25, 2001 – The Lahore High Court rejected the appeal of Ayub Masih, a Christian sentenced to death by the Sahiwal District Court in 1998. There is only one possible appeal left in this case. If the Supreme Court of Pakistan does not overturn the ruling of the lower courts, Masih will be executed by hanging. The death sentence is the maximum punishment under Pakistan Penal Code 295/c for blasphemy against the Prophet of Islam. However, no Christian has yet been executed under the notorious blasphemy laws.
June 25, 2001 – Islamic extremists in Sabu Mahaal village robbed the home of Christian Hamid Masih and also raped his wife. Hamid is the brother of Saleem and Rasheed Masih, two men convicted of blasphemy in May of last year. Hamid has been caring for his brothers’ wives and children. However, the family is now in fear for their lives.
http://www.persecution.org/Countries/pakistan.html
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
My friend, you are sadly mistaken. Since the Constitution of Pakistan has been amended which clearly discriminates between Muslims and Non-Muslims, minorities have slowly yet surely been marginalized from society. Discrimination against minorities is rampant and quite acceptable, such concerns are valid and need to be discussed and condemned by society in general. We (majority) cannot treat such concerns as propaganda or isolated events without being labelled as bigoted and contemptuous towards other religions.
Take the example of whats happened to Muslims travelling to or residing in US post 9/11. General complaints of being harrassed for religious beliefs is on the rise and deliberate neglect or complicity by the state has contributed to an increased level of anxiety. I have been travelling to the US for the last 15years for business and family reasons, it was always a pleasure pre-9/11, now its just sheer agony getting cleared thru immigrations being treated as a suspect simply because u have a muslim name and a Paki passport. Iam sure many of you dont feel the same way, but there are those who share the same pain. Point being, minority rights need to be protected sometimes more than those of the majority for a just society.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
Name more than two new female, muslim artist performers of Zia Ul Haq days???
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
^ Yeah, unfortunately Maddy doesn’t get to hear about these news, he wouldn’t know where Renala Khurd is. Christians in rural Pakistan are treated worse than dogs in Pakistan. Whoever thinks it is not the case is living in a cave. Some, may be 1% have made it in metropolitan areas of Pakistan, but over 99% Christians in Pakistan are treated as dirt. The Janitorial jobs are almost 100% Christians jobs. I have yet to see a single Wahabi cleaning toilets in Pakistan. I am willing to hire one if there is one looking for a job.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
Saddar, Karachi used to be Christian dominated area upto the seventies, now it has its share of religious bigots masquerading as pious muslims.
Back in the seventies, we had many christian buddies, teachers, nuns, shopkeepers, musicians and working class people. Sadly, most of them had to migrate for fear of religious persecution and of course in search of better prospects. Then I was too young to know what was driving these ppl from their homes, but as time passed and religious bigotry rose, things became clearer that Pakistan lost something precious, its people, its soul.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
My husband said that sometimes if a christian has a property that a Muslim wants, a common ploy was to accuse the person of blasphemy and have them arrested. Since the testimony of 4 Christians equal the testimony of one Muslim, it is impossible to defend yourself.
Mind you, he loves Pakistan and says for the most part it is a great place to live. Just two problems. No tolerance for others way of living and no way to support a family.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
Oh please. Gimme a break will ya. The same idiots who have bombed churches in the past are the same ones that are willing to engage in violent shia-sunni acts, and are the same ones that are willing to kill their daughters if they find her with another man.
Violence is part of every society. The difference in Pakistan is that its not reigned in because our police and govt are corrupt as well. So the culprits dont go to jail, they just keep wandering loose in society.
I bet if in Western countries, jerks were let out of jails and allowed to run free, you'd see a lot of unnecessary violence as well.
I do not think that the majority of muslims are bent upon hurting Christians. I have seen plenty of successful christians in Pakistan myself. And I certainly do not think that its the fault of "fundamentalist Islam", whatever the hell that is anyway. Islam never said to go kill Christians just for the hell of it. And Christians are certainly doing their best to live in tolerance and peace with there fellow Pakistanis.
As sad as it is that such people exist, its part of a really bigger problem - that of law enforcement and execution.
Re: Plight of Christians in Righteous Pakistan
PCG, you have known 3 Christians in Karachi who are middle class. Go to rural Punjab, where the majority of Pakistani Christians live, and see for yourself. They are slowly leaving the country because of how they are treated in Pakistan. Most Hindus that were left in Lahore after partition have migrated to either India or the west. I know many such families.
Now it is really a cop out by saying that Islam doesn’t advocate such treatment of minorities. It does. Taliban didn’t start a new ideology, they learnt it in Islamic institutions. You can’t be so blind by not acknowledging the root causes of all of this injustice meted to minorities in Muslim countries.