Please make a note of it

Assalam-o-Elekum

I am very happy to see the responses of my writings. It tells me that I am not alone in this chamber. I have many of brother and sisters who agree with me and with my thoughts. To day, I just want to bring in your notice about the writings and thoughts of a person name Bukhari.

If you go through this web page and its different sites you will see his name appearing in almost every discussions and debates. I want you to notice his derogatory and disgraceful remarks about our respected and beloved three Khulfa-e-Rashideen (Rizwanulaahum Ajmaeen) .

First of all, I do not think that Brother Bukahri has any respect to any body not even to religion. He belongs to that category of the people whom we call, “Parhe Likhe Jahil”(Educated illiterate). He does not know even the basic etiquette and adab adab of discussions and debates.
Let me give you some of the examples from his writings in different threads. These are his exact words which I am copying as it is.

“the Islam before corruption by the kafirs Muyavia,
Yazid, and others of the house of Abu Sufiyan, whose reign was made possible by
the hypocrites called Usman and Umar”.

“The rest of the Islamic empire, under Yazid’s
rule, practiced Yazid’s Islam, and called
themselves “Sunnis””

“Shias saw the conspiracy against the Prophet’s
family, which was actually a conspiracy
against Islam. This was a conspiracy whose
roots went back to the time of Abu Bakr,
Umar and Usman, who were very close to
Abu Sufyan and Muyavia”.

In another thread, JESUS DID NOT DIE, ACCORDING TO QURAN
Bukhari wrote,

“I don’t know which idiots are spreading these
lies that Jesus died.”

In the thread,
The Prophet PBUH himself endorsed the Shias
Bukhari wrote
“WHY ABU BAKR, USMAN, AND UMAR DID NOT
DESERVE CALIPHATE.
THEY WERE POWER HUNGRY HYPOCRITES.”
But Bukhari does not stop here.
It seems that he does not have respect to any body any religion or any sect or any human being.

In GENERAL SECTION, IS IT OK TO MARRY HINDU GAL?? FurQan from Toronto

Look at the way Bukhari is answering,
Take note of his words and sentences.

“only a moron would marry a Hindu
girl.
Why?
Because, even if she converts, she will speak
Urdu with an obnoxious Sanskrit accent,
pronouncing kh without the real sound, and
substituting sh for ‘s’ and ‘sh’ for ‘s’………..”

He keeps on going, look at the childish way he is making joke of Hindu girls, a human being.

“Besides, how can you stand those ugly saaris
and those ugly teeth. Not to mention that
ugly skin colour. UGH.”

Then he came out with this idea.

“DID YOU KNOW that some Hindu girls actually
have BEARDS under their chins, which extend
all the way to their necks.
SO LOOK CLOSELY BELOW HER CHIN BEFORE YOU
MARRY HER.”

Now after going through all these examples, you must have been wondered.What to say, How to react ?. Some of you would disagree with me calling him educated and would say that we should not even call him literate or educated. Some of you will write to boycott his writings. I personally, do not know, how to behave with these kinds of people. I am leaving all these to my other colleagues and brothers.
Allah Hafiz

Now I have a personal request to Mr.Bukhari. You claim to be a Muslim ( and I have no doubt about that), but your personal behaviors and your writing are negating that. Islam is a religion of tolerance and endurance, a religion which teaches us sophistication and etiquette in every aspect of our life, a religion which told us to speak gently to others, a religion who told us there is no jabre ( force) in Islam. And a religion who want to conquer the heart not the body.
Please

 Differ with the ideas of the people but not with the people themselves.
 Write whatever you think is right but in a descent way; do not dirty your tongue.
 Defend your religion and Shiaism in a sophisticated way. Do not through water on your arguments by these kinds of childish and cheap comments.
 Defend your culture and identity but do not hurt other people feelings by make joke of their culture in a childish and immature way.
 Respect the humanity as humanity, no matter what religion do they belong to, what colors do they have, what language do they speak and what dress do they wear.
 Do not forget that these sites are open to people all over the world. Do not let them say that Muslims and Shia especially are extremist, arrogant and uncivilized and uneducated. Please do not bring disgrace to your sect and t your religions
And Final words.
Believe me I respect Shia and I respect them with my all of my heart. This respect will always be there.
May Allah bless us and guide us to His right pathways.

As-Salaam 'Alaikum,

You should not expect too much from such people. After all, if they can curse the Companions of our Prophet (SAW), about whom Allaah (SWT) has said that "He is pleased with them" and who have been guaranteed Paradise, then the rest of humanity do not stand a chance against their tongues.

Unfortunately, their is not much you can do to avoid his loose tongue. Your approach of "live and let live" has its place in Islaam, but does not fit the nature of man. As a Muslim, you are now feeling what the rest of us are feeling in trying to refute this person. The only difference is that you try to calm him down, whilst the others (including myself) try to refute him according to the Qur'aan and Sunnah. Granted, some do get carried away and fall to his levels, but emotion is a very difficult thing to control.

The fact is that both approaches are necessary, but should be combined. That is to say, the best approach against such people is to refute them with clear evidences from the Qur'aan and Sunnah, but in a gentle manner. The proof for this is Allaah's saying:

<< Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His path, and He is Best Aware of those who are guided. >> [Sura an-Nahl:125]

My sincere advice to you is, that instead of trying to talk sense into these people, use the Deen, with clear evidences, to show how repugnant their behaviour is. Only, don't fall into the trap of becoming like them in their language.

Wa Salaam.

In this era of 21st century, I am very amazed to see how different muslims are using their judgements so openly to decide whether or not one is qualified to be called "muslim" or "kaafir", like if it was there inherent right directly given to them from all mighty Allah. In my previous messages, I have repeatedly told all the participants of this forum, that the issue of Shiaism/Sunnism or any other sect CANNOT be solved by mere duplication/pasting of few hadiths or Ayats in these postings. By doing that, you people are ignoring the 1400 years of muslim history which shows that this issue has never been solved. Do you all think that by knowing few Hadiths or memorizing few Ayats of Quran, you are better equipped than those Aalims, Mujtahids who had tried this back few centuries ago?????

The first and uttmost rule of meaningful and intellectual discussion is to have decency and politeness towards your audience and other participants. If your writing or post carries a negative tone, it looses the credibility as well as create doubts about your personality as a well-mannered intellectual human being. May I suggest one thing, Name calling or passing negative judgements would not get your point across faster than polite and tolerant statements. I am sure I don't need to say this but you all have heard this before:

You catch more flies with honey than Vinegar.

I agree with Imranz. The best thing to do is to ignore Bukhari and others like him.

Later on
Zman

Dear Doc.

I am very happy to see what you have done so far, and the way you have change the over all discussion on this site. I hope you will continue this constructive discussion on this site. God bless you and peoples like you.

Allah Hafiz

I completely disagree with Imranz and Zman that we should ignore these kind of writngs.
I agree with uicdoc that these sites are open to every body all over the world.You dont know how many people have been reading these threads.NonMuslim world is already skeptic about us, They think we are ignorant, illiterate, extremist and intolerent. What do you think , what they will think when they read some thing like Bukhari's comment on Hindu girls,her color and her language and her sari. What a childish and funny ? I still laugh when I read them.But we can not ignor them and let the world think bad about us.
Instead, we need people like uicdoc who can rebute them forcefully, who can represent us to the world and who can show them the better picture of our religion and our society.

[This message has been edited by Fatah (edited February 02, 1999).]

Fatah : My question to you is :

Are you skeptical about yourself and your religion ?
Do you think that you are ignorant, illiterate, extremist and intolerent?

Dont care about what the world thinks about you or your religion.

Even uicdoc will agree on this one. If you want a better picture of what is in Islam, then read the Quran and Sunnah. Do not let others that SEEM to have knowledge lead you to a better understanding of Islam, cause you might be led astrayed without even knowing it. Go to the source of Islam - THE QURAN.

Later on
Zman

uicdoc
I ahve been reading your writngs very interestingly.
You are one of the most sensible person who has been writng in this page. I understand your point about Bukhari and his writng. But he is not the only one who is writng controversial things in these column. Some of others are also talking nonsense like Abdulla, Qasim, Machoman, mirza yasir, jewel etc.
do you say anything about them.

Asslam-o-Elekum

Fatah

We are very fortunate that we are Muslim and we should be proud of that. Allah has announced that this religion is the best and the chosen one. We believe in a Prophet (SAW) who is Rahmata-lil aalmin and the best human being the earth has ever seen and will ever see. We have a book which is the last book and the complete book for the guidance of mankind.
After all these and lots more endorsement, do you still need any more from Europe or from the West for your religion.
Believe me, The West has always come out different propaganda and slogan to disgrace Islam. This war is not new but going on since crusade.
So don’t feel bad if they say bad about us.What ever you are reading and listening and watching in their papers, radio, internet, and TV, is nothing but bundle of lies. They also know that. Don’t take them granted and don’t start blaming each other.

How ever, It does not mean that we should ignore what ever the West say or write about us and just keep quite. No. NO. NO. It will be nothing but collective suicide.
It is our religious and intellectual obligations that we should rebut and refute them, tell them the truth about Islam and it’s various aspects. We should defend our self vigorously, powerfully and with dignity not in an apologetic manner.

Khuda Hafiz

Amin,
Assalam-o-Elekum
My Allah is witnessed that what ever I have been writing in this site, I am writing with whole my sincerity and without being Personal to anybody. I have no personal conflict with any body.
Regarding your complaints that why I did not write anything against those people who have been writing controversial things, let me say few things. First of all I am not an authority and I do not know lots of stuff. So I do not interfere with those threads about which I feel incompetent. Second thing that I do think lots of writing here are very relevant and interesting to the other people. We should bear them for the sack of others even if we don’t like them or don’t find them up to our standard.
What I am against is writing on those issues which are causing hatred and hegemony among Muslims and using humiliating and disgraceful remarks. May be you did not see my Thread "Open letter to Abdulla and Bukhari” two weeks ago. In this thread I not only requested Bukhari to stop writing against Sunni, but I also addressed Abdullah and others (some of them, you mentioned in your writing) for their continued writings about these issue.

There is an interesting article in Dawn.

_______Begin Article_________

New US approach to South Asia

                                          The West and the Muslims


                                                By Iqbal Jafar


               THERE is now a general consensus in the West, backed by a growing mass of literature, that those men in black turbans and baggy trousers, 'the Islamic fundamentalists', are up to no good. The West seems to have discovered but only recently that these men tend to grow beards, take a dim view of women, are prone to be violently intolerant, and strongly disapprove of the ways of the West. 

               But, surely these men have not materialized suddenly out of nowhere to frighten the children here and the elderly in the West. In fact, the elderly in the West should be able to recall that the creed of religio - political authoritarianism that these men represent remained in the warm embrace of the West for no less than four decades, beginning in the early 1950s. 

               Even a brief recollection of that close association between the West and the Muslim authoritarians can provide a clue to two of the many riddles of our times: one, why a secular-democratic political culture has not yet found a stable foundation in any of the Muslim states; two, why does militant religious fanaticism (referred to as 'fundamentalism' in academic discourse) continue to grow in Muslim societies in this day and age? Let us open a little window on the recent past to have a glimpse of the genesis of this situation. 

               From the times of stern Presbyterian fundamentalism of John Foster Dulles ('Nobody in the Department of State knows as much about Bible as I do') and his brother Allen, to the days of secular cynicism of William Casey when he ruled the invisible and invincible empire of the CIA, religious orthodoxy and political authoritarianism were both nurtured as a powerful bulwark against the expansion of Soviet influence, all over the Muslim world from Morocco to Indonesia, systematically and at great cost. 

               Those were the times when such notions as democracy, rule of law, and eradication of poverty, currently being advocated as revolutionary new ideas, were all suspect in the eyes of the surrogate guardians of the Muslim states, and were viewed as seeds of subversion sown by the malcontents of the left. 

               As a consequence of the ideological paranoia that prevailed on both sides of the Iron Curtain, writers, intellectuals, politicians and others who believed in the liberal and populist mode of governance were allowed to be marginalized, disinherited and persecuted all over the Muslim world - in fact all over the Third World. In numerous instances the ideological suspects were not only persecuted but even physically liquidated. In the 1963 coup in Iraq, for example, about 5,000 Iraqis(according to some, 30,000) were disposed of in a planned manner. Included among them were some of the best of the Iraqi society - senior army officers, doctors, teachers, writers and others. The lists of those who were to be eliminated were provided by the CIA ( Said K. Aburish: 'A Brutal Friendship') and were prepared by its outfits in Cairo, Beirut and Damascus with the help of Iraqi exiles, including a Ba'ath party member, then living in exile in Cairo, by the name of Saddam Hussein. 

               The western meddling in the politics of the Muslim countries was so frequent and pervasive that out of 35 coups or coup attempts in the Middle East (Eliezer Be'er: 'Army officers in Arab Politics and Society') no less than 34 were supported or encouraged by the West. The only exception is the Iraqi coup of 1958 which was anti-West. Thus, by the early 1960s  military dictatorships had been installed in all such Muslim countries where an autocratic government was not already in place. 

               Also, in pursuit of its objectives during the period of cold war, the West consistently promoted religious orthodoxy in the Muslim states as a counterpoise to the godless creed of communism and to the secular nationalist forces, especially in the Arab world, who were assumed to be more vulnerable to the Soviet influence. It is no more a secret that the West provided generous support to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and to similar other organizations elsewhere in the Muslim world. Even Israel provided funds (Jochem Hippler and Andrea Leug: 'The Next Threat') to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas (yes, it is true!) from 1970s to 1980s to undermine the PLO and Arab nationalism.The long and massive support for the Muslim fundamentalists in Afghanistan (Osama bin Laden was one of them) is, of course, the most well documented story of the western support for the fundamentalists. 

               These, then, are the immediate causes of the prevalence of religio-political authoritarianism in the contemporary Muslims societies. Those who are making strenuous efforts to discover the roots of authoritarianism in the Muslim societies by delving deep into the religious thought and statecraft of medieval Muslim societies (no different from those of other medieval societies) would do well to focus on more recent times. 

               So much for the weak foundations of secular-democratic culture in Muslim societies. Next, the second of the two riddles mentioned in the beginning: why does militant religious fanaticism (fundamentalism) continue to grow in Muslim societies in this day and age? 

               The so-called 'Islamic fundamentalism' or 'Islamic resurgence' is a complex phenomenon. It is a fusion of no less than five different streams of thought emerging at different points on the scale of history: one, the pro-West reformist Islamic movements, beginning in the 19th century; two, the militant orthodox Islamic movements against European colonialism, also beginning in the 19th century; three, the pro-West and anti-Soviet orthodox Islamic activism of the cold war era; four, anti-West Islamic activism fuelled by excesses against the Muslims in Palestine, Kashmir, Bosnia, Kosovo, and by the virtual occupation of the Gulf states by the US; and five, an urge to seek redemption under an Islamic dispensation as the new world order, wallowing in sleeze, crime and consumerist garbage, offers little hope for the dispossessed and the forsaken. 

               The Islamic fundamentalism or resurgence is, thus, a phenomenon that does not have a single source of inspiration. Nor does it have a single or common objective. Being a fusion of many elements, old and new, it represents a wide range of historical residue, current concerns, academic discourse, and political militancy. It subsumes dedicated and benign scholarship at one end of the spectrum and acts of terrorism at the other. It is, however, the anti-West and violent end of the spectrum that invokes such apocalyptic visions as 'Islamic Threat,' 'Sword of Islam' or 'Green Peril' leading to a 'clash of civilizations'. It is in this context that one may ask the question: How come that the most favoured allies of the West for 40 years are now seen as its most dogged enemies? What are the causes of this conflict? Why is the Muslim world as a whole supposed to be arrayed against the West, and for what purpose? 

               In order to understand the nature of this conflict one must focus attention on certain facts that have been erased from the discourse by partisan scholars and media. These are: 

               - Muslims are in direct conflict with the Israelis, Indians and Serbs, not with the West. 

               - Muslims have indirect conflict with three western powers (the US, UK and France) which support the Israelis, and have no quarrel with other western powers such as Italy, Spain, Germany and Canada. 

               - Islam as an ideology was accepted as supportive of the West throughout the cold war. 

               - West has best of relations with a number of countries that have enforced Islamic laws, and are Islamic states. 

               - Three Muslim countries with whom the West has worst of relations - Libya, Syria and Iraq - are secular political entities where fundamentalists have disappeared without a trace. 

               If one gives some thought to these facts one would come to the clear conclusion that there is neither a conflict between Islam and the West, nor between the Muslims and the West. The reality behind the huge global furore over the supposedly ongoing conflict and the coming Armageddon between the Muslims and the West is no more than the conflict in Palestine where three western powers have chosen to support and condone the excesses of the Israelis against their neighbours who happen to be Muslims and whose lands they occupy. 

               Now, how does this explain the growing influence of militant fundamentalists in the Muslim world? The reason is simple. The liberals, the nationalists, the pro-West politicians in the Muslim world have failed to protect their people from acts of aggression and terrorism especially by the Israelis and their supporters. They have also failed to stand up to discriminatory, unfair and humiliating treatment, of which there are innumerable instances.
               Those who cooperated with the West in seeking justice for their people (Anwar Sadat, Yasser Arafat) have been made to look like pawns in the hands of the West rather than peace-makers. 

               The inevitable has, therefore, happened. When the weak cannot inherit their own earth, they become terrorists and draw strength from racial, linguistic or religious fanaticism, in place of material resources of which they have little. This is what has happened throughout history, and also in our own times. Zionists themselves justify their terrorist activities, since before the creation of the state of Israel, for these very reasons. The terrorist activities by the IRA are another example in our time of revenge by the weak. 

               What the West itself has done to create and strengthen militant Islamic fundamentalism is an amazing aspect of its policies. It first gave all the moral, political and material support to the fundamentalists for no less than 40 years and, later, provided them with a cause to fight for by supporting Israelis, reacting very slowly to the ethnic cleansing by the Serbs, and by being indifferent to what the Indians have been doing in Kashmir. As if all this was not enough, the West also saw to it that the pro-West liberals in the Muslim world become irrelevant and discredited among their own people. 

               The so-called Jihad by the Islamic fundamentalists cannot be justified even on the basis of sharia, but their cause (the right of self-determination) is justified even on the basis of western ideals and values. As Bernard Lewis has observed in his article on Usama bin Laden (Foreign Affairs: November/December 1998): "At no point do the basic texts of Islam enjoin terrorism and murder. At no point do they even consider the random slaughter of uninvolved bystanders." He then goes to give a perfectly sensible advice: "But in devising strategies to fight the terrorists, it would be surely useful to understand the forces that drive them." 

________End Article__________

[This message has been edited by PG (edited February 05, 1999).]

Dear zman.

You have raised a couple of very intresting and thought provocating questions, in addition to that you also suggested what one has to do. I have a mix feeling about your thought process.

1) I totaly agree with you that we should seek guidence form Quran and Sunnah, but when you say "Dont care what the world thinks about you or your relegion" then I think you may not be 100% wrong but you are also not right as well.

Islam is a dynamic religion, it not only provide us individual spirituality but it also give us guidence for social engagement, it not only teaches us the impotence of TAQWA but also emphasices the importence of HOQOQAL YEBAAD, God want us to become good Muslim and best way is to acquire the OOSAAF of Allah Subhanohoo tayala in our lives.
God is "Rehman and Raheem" on one hand and "Qahhar and Jabaar" on other, it might look like a paradox but we all know that its not.
Similarly in practicing Islam, on one hand there are a lot of emphasis on improving our self, but on the other hand, A great impotence has given to establish an Islamic society. one could argue that one is more important then othe and visa versa but we could not ignore it.

Being a Muslim it is our duty (among lots of other) to spread the Dean (ISLAM) if we dont care what the world think about our religion then how could we fulfil our one of the many obligations. think about it!,

2) As we know that in a socity no one could do every thing by his or her self and different people has to perform different task, (blue collar job , white collar job, no collar job etc, etc..) and all have their own importence in the proper functioning of the whole socity, similarly in Religious affair we need different people with different dimensions, some one like you who emphasice on improving once own deed and some one like uicdoc who could rebut wrong information and emphasice on importence of collective consciousness, and many more motivated people like you.

In this garden there are many trees and lot of flowers, all have their own colour and aroma. The beauty of this garden is in its divesity.

God bless all of you

(BE AWARE OF THORNS)

WasSalaam

[This message has been edited by Aadmi (edited February 03, 1999).]

Congratulation to Muslim Ummah
Three graet scholar and philospher of this age have been born. First uicdoc, then PG and now aadmi. I have to go through and read all of your philosphy again, when I have time, befor I make any comment.
Does any body else has time and dare to read them ?

Pardon me, I am not a philosopher.

I have just posted a article in Dawn (verbatim) without changing a word. The name of the author is also written.

I did not even say that I agree with the contents of the article.

PG !
forgot to ask from PG. What ever you have written , are they taken from that DAWN article which you mentioned in the begining, or these are your own expressions. Its not clear from your writings.

Fatah.
PG has already explained that he was quoting, DAWN, article.

Believe me, I am not a philosopher, neither an intellectual. I am a very simple man, living in Chicago and working very hard to earn bread for me and my family. This web site provides me an opportunity and a moment to express my self to my dear country fellow (hamwatan), whom I miss a lot, in this country. What ever I write, it just comes from my heart. When I start writing, I just keep on writing what ever comes in my mind and heart. These are my true feelings and these are my love for all of you. There is no limitation of my love for my country and for my people. I am sorry if you feel that my writings are lengthy and drawn-out. I will try my best to hold my self off.

Assalam-o-Elikum:

Please except my unconditional apology for writting some of my views on this site. There were no philosphy and no new ideas in my last posting, It was what I have heard since my childhood, by common peoples discussing Islam on the streets ,in the living room, mosque, baazar and tea shops.

After reading PG's last posting( an Article by Iqbal Jafar) I could't understand why he posted this article in this thread? I don't see any connection of this article and brother uicdoc topic and current discussion, and PG even did't say that he agree with its contents.
It ook like Iqbal Jafar (Author of the atricle) is trying to solve the two most puzzling question of our time but the way he did that resulted in more ambiguaty and confusion, and few of conclussions are untrue and misleading.

For example

1) He is trying to tell us that Muslims who are practcing Islam esp.in Arab world is not because of their bleave in God and Islam but because of organised effort of West and CIA to conter communism...!! Please?

2) freedom movements againt europian colonialism were MILITANT ORTHODOX ISLAMIC MOVEMENT. thats totally wrong
(Fredom movement in Turky, Algeria and ieven in Indo-Pak were not orthodox Islamic movement. in fact it other way round.

3)" West has best relation with number of countries that have enforced Islamic Law and Islamic state". WHAT..!! where , which country? exceuse me...

4)There are two or more WEST, (UK, USA, and France) are different then others! (Pleaes some body educate me) I am speachless.

5) The greatest conflict betweem Muslims and West is no more then Isreal issue..... thats it.. !!

6)Muslims are not in direct conflict with west.
etc, etc, etc.

I think these are very importent political and educational issus and some one who is capable enough should clarify this cloud.

I also request PG to give his own take on them as he is the one who has posted this article

Allah Hafiz

in addition to that his conclussion tha"The so called 'Islamic fundamentalism'....is a fusion of no less then five different streems of thought...."

Well the point he makes that most of thr 'fundamentalist' organizations are funded by west. Take example of Pakistan. After Shah was overthrown in Iran, US was worried about possibility of spread of Islamic revolution and funded Sunni sectarian organizations. Iran funded Shia sectarian organizations in turn and now they have life of their own. West while lamenting about lack of democracy in China, does not talk of Saudi Arabia.

Even the reminders to China of democracy have more to do with trade deficit than genuine concern. So the west is more interested in having its puppets installed in various places than democracy.

Now how much are France or Italy with US in the entire game. They are not much in it. They do not oppose US. But do not support US to the extent of joining sanctions to India and Pakistan and lose some orders of a few million dollors.

Only Iran is in direct contest with US. Point which is selectively omitted in the article.

PG: Thanks for the response.

There is a general consciences in the Muslim world towards the hypocratic US foreign policy which they (US) called " in our national intrest" which is creating a direct conflict b/w Muslims and US ( and U.S is west in the eyes of majority of Muslims all over the world because of present geo-political senirio) whether it is right or wrong, this what they bleave, and as you mentioned, China and Saudi Arabia are the garden varity examples of this attitude. But problem occur when someone try to bundle up all the Islamic movement into one entity, in your example of" Pakistan and Iran" may have some weight but they have no standing in Muslim Ummah not even in their own country, mixing then with real Islamic movenents like, Islamic Revolution in Iran, Akhwaan-un- Muslameen, Tublighi Jamaat, Islamic Movement in Turky, Algeria, Malasiya, China, and different other parts of world and even in US, the role of ICNA and ISNA and others, is a grave mistake, This is what the WEST want us to bleave, and if we are unable to differentiate them then the west will be successful in their endeavour.

West has supported monarchy in Islamic world not the Muslims, and it should be viewed in the same context.

Western Europe is more antagonistic againt Muslims in gernal then U.S.

One more clarification The meaning of FUNDAMENTALISM according to different dictionary including Oxford and Webster is "Stric following of the basic teaching of any Religion" and a fundamentalist is the one who does that....!! yes..! this is what fundamentalism and fundamentalist is, and if any one who bleave that the Quran is literally true and should form the basis of religious thoughts or practice then you are no one else but a fandamentalist...!! sorry.. this is not me this what is written in English Dictionaries, west knows that because this is their major language and they want muslims to be not a fundamentalist like Christian and others and namely opesite of Fundamentalist SECULAR.. again according to Dictionaries the meaning is " 1) not concern with spiritual and religious affairs, 2) belief that morality , education etc. should not based on religion.

west is trying to mix two opposite poles, Terrorism and Fundamentalism togather so that muslim should become secular...and they are unfortunately some what succesful as well.

West is again in direct conflict with Muslims on above issues, and in my personal openion this is the most importent reasion for friction b/w west and Islam.

May Allah help us to become a true fundamentalist (MUSLIM)

Allah Hafiz