Pipelines from Turkmenistan and Iran to India

Society Military and Strategic Issues
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by BigBoss2015: *
* ...The problem with your country is that it would rather look at us at the end of a rifle *

No actually we rather look at you with nuclear missile pointing at you. Is the only safe way and its the only language you understand.
[/QUOTE]

Is that why you cowards pussied out of a war? You country is filled with pussies, you included:) Only thing your capable of doing is murdering unarmed men, women, and children. So again, fuk you, you god damn Indian pussy.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by bdsurti: *
**Pakistani Tiger Ji*

How so?

Protocol does expect a Guest to inform the host country before a Press Confrence is called and one does not try to win Points as a Guest in the Host Country

I think President Musharraf did invite Mr. Vajpayee while visiting India last year. Mr. Vajpayee is most welcome for talks in Pakistan whenever he wants to. But as far as I know, Mr. Vajpayee has cancelled his visit to Pakistan.

Prime Minister Vajpayee went to Lahore. It transpires that at time General Musharraf was planning the Kargil Affair. Never mind. It happened. General Musharraf then goes to India and it proves to be a futile visit as he must First and Foremost Discuss and Have Kashmir. Impasse.

With the above scenario how do you expect Prime Minister to Visit Pakistan.

I think it's hurting both India and Pakistan. I don't get why Indian officials are making such a deal if the Gas Pipeline has to pass from Pakistan. Pakistan has already offer it openly. All India is need to do is come over on the table of dialogue

It is isn’t hurting India at all. With the situation at hand it is for Pakistan to offer Confidence Building Measures so as to draw into to the Table of Dialogue.

Whether a person becomes the head of the state with fraud or with respect, all he/she has to do is work for the nation, which is what Musharraf is doing.

If you will recollect Prime Minister Vajpayee was the FIRST foreign Leader to CONGRATULATE General Musharraf on his ‘’Self-Elevation’’ to become the ‘’Self-Appointed’’ President of Pakistan. So the validity of President Musharraf’s postion is not being questioned. His position is accepted.

The Indians are waiting to see if Pakistan will create an atmosphere conducive to Dailogue.

Have a Nice Day

+++++++

Adnan Ahmed Ji

Now your just being stupid, my point was that we should PUT KASHMIR ON THE BACK BURNERS FOR A WHILE. I said that our current stand on Kashmir is pointless, and we should work on things like the pipeline to increase mutual trust.

Despite your derogatory remark labelling me as Stupid I shall not stoop, but, will carry our the discussion in a Gentlemanly manner.

This is then Confidence Building Point : Number One : Stop Cross Border Terrorism. You have admitted tht the majority of the Kashmiri Jehadis are from Pakistani Punjab.

And the pipeline will not only benefit us in Pakistan, but you aswell.
My point was, that this will be the harbinger of peace, as both contries will gain a huge amount and in the process, become more comfortable with the other. Once this happens, then we should think about Kashmir.
AND I said that Pakistan will give you confidence measures, thats part of the package, but first we will have to sit down and discuss the matter, which I doubt your country is willing to do.
You obviouslyt NOT an optomist, because if you were, you would be supporting this idea.

The Pipe Line MAINLY BENEFITS Pakistan. An Income of up to USD Two Billion Yearly for perpetuity.

I do like your terming this Pipe Line Project a harbinger of Peace. May there be many more.

Confidence Building Measure Two : Hand over the Indian Underworld Gangsters like Mr. Dawood and the others to India.

Confidence Building Measure Three : Reciprocate by offering Indian goods Pakistan’s Most Favoured Nation Status. India gave this to Pakistan may be Five Years ago.

Had I not been an optimist or a supporter of this idea then we wouldn’t have had over Fifty Posts on this Board – the majority being mine.

The problem with your country is that it would rather look at us at the end of a rifle, then across a negotiating table. Until India realizes that it will have to trust for its own sake and the region, we will be stuck prepetual cycle.

Adnan Ji – The whole Episode started with the USA arming Pakistan in 1950s ostensibly against Communist Russia and Communist China to India’s Chagrin.

These Arms were used against India, East Pakistan and Balochistan. Not against Russia. Not against China. So the Rifle is in Pakistan’s Hand aimed at India’s Head. It is natural for India to see the End of the Rifle then the table, at a considerable distance, beyond.

Whether it is conventional warfare, or Nuclear or Missiles it is the Pakistani Leadership which states that One Pakistani Soldier is equal to Ten Indian Soldiers. They have time and time again reiterated that they can DESTROY ALL OF INDIA. Your Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals have stated their intention to have Breakfast in Jaipur and Delhi, Lunch in Bomaby and Luknow, Dinner in Calcutta and Madrass and finally Supper in Cape Comorin and Agartala.

Have you ever heard of such bellicose and stupid statements made by Indian Leaders – Political and Military?

By the way if One Pakistani Soldier is equal Ten Indian Soldiers then why doesn’t Pakistan Trim its Armed Forces Members to One Tenth the Indian Size?

BTW, lets prove you optomism... What exactly do you suggest in terms of confidence building measures? We already said that Pakistan will not stop its Arms spending, so what can we do to make you people happy?

I have enumerated IMHO the Confidence Building Measures required by India. Neither I nor you have the power to negotiate and formulate Policy.

Please pay attention to my posts. I have stated several times : Pakistan’s Defence Spending is Pakistan’s prerogative. India has no right to criticise it. Similarly India’s Defence Budget is India’s prerogative. Pakistan has no right to criticise it.

YOU HAVE AN AWESOME, AMAZING, EXCEPTIONALLY WONDERFUL DAY..

Words fail me to pay you a better compliments and wishes so all I can say ‘’ May god grant the same to You’’

Have a nice Weekend.
[/QUOTE]

Your a funny guy, I will certainly have a nice weekend. I wish more Indians would be a kind as you... You could perhaps be an example to us, and your own countrymen alike.
I personally think the Pipeline will benefit all.
But unlike you im not an optamist, im a pessamist of the extreme kind. India and Pakistan will never build a pipeline, and India will end up trying to building it thru the waters, which I think will never happen because there will always be someone against it. I already told you that we cant get you to the negotiating table, you have to do that yourself. Pakistan has nothing to offer you, ITS YOU THAT HAVE TO MAKE THE OFFER.
So again, have a great day.

63

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
**Prime Minister Vajpayee went to Lahore. It transpires that at time General Musharraf was planning the Kargil Affair. Never mind. It happened. General Musharraf then goes to India and it proves to be a futile visit as he must First and Foremost Discuss and Have Kashmir. Impasse.

With the above scenario how do you expect Prime Minister to Visit Pakistan.**

Dude, you lost me! Musharraf invited Vajpayee while visiting India last year in July. I'm amazed you have included Kargil. Tell me, why did Vajpayee invited Musharraf to India, despite of knowing, it was Musharraf, who Masterminded Kargil?

** Pakistan to offer Confidence Building Measures so as to draw into to the Table of Dialogue. **

Pakistan is ready for talks with India anytime, anywhere in the world at any level. Clear message to India from President Musharraf!

The Indians are waiting to see if Pakistan will create an atmosphere conducive to Dailogue.

Said it above.

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"The Indians are waiting to see if Pakistan will create an atmosphere conducive to Dailogue."
The atmosphere is always conducive for talks. The whole world is telling India to start up the dialogue. Unfortunately, Indias concept of a

"conducive atmosphere" will never be met. So, it will bark from tree to tree while the standoff continues unabated. Thus the only loser in this case is India.

65

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Adnan Ahmed: *
"The Indians are waiting to see if Pakistan will create an atmosphere conducive to Dailogue."
The atmosphere is always conducive for talks. The whole world is telling India to start up the dialogue. Unfortunately, Indias concept of a

"conducive atmosphere" will never be met. So, it will bark from tree to tree while the standoff continues unabated. Thus the only loser in this case is India.
[/QUOTE]

All we need is a pipeline from CA to the shores of Pak... But even that is not going to happen i the near future.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

All we need is a pipeline from CA to the shores of Pak... But even that is not going to happen i the near future.
[/QUOTE]

What is CA, Abdali?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *

What is CA, Abdali?
[/QUOTE]

Central Asia, former Soviet Republics

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

Central Asia, former Soviet Republics
[/QUOTE]

O.K

69

Musharraf to attend summit in Ashgabad to finalise gas pipeline project

RECORDER REPORT

ISLAMABAD (October 13 2002) : President General Pervez Musharraf is likely to leave for Turkmenistan in the last week of October to attend the tripartite summit being held in Ashgabad for finalisation of feasibility study agreement on the construction of Turkmen-Afghan-Pakistan gas pipeline project.

"President Pervez Musharraf may leave on 26th October for attending the tripartite summit on the Pak-Turkmen pipeline," an official of the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources told Business Recorder here on Saturday.

The Turkmen government is planning to hold a tripartite summit for the signing ceremony of the feasibility accord on the construction of gas pipeline on 26th and 27th October.

The trilateral summit will be attended by President General Pervez Musharraf, Turkmenistan President Saparmurat Niyazov and Afghanistan President Hamid Karzai, the official informed.

He said that steering committee comprising ministers from Turkmenistan, Pakistan and Afghanistan including representatives of the Asian Development Bank (ADB) met in Kabul last month.

The meeting reviewed the progress on Pak-Turkmen pipeline and submitted the views of their respective countries to the ADB, the official maintained.

The official informed that the meeting of the members of the steering committee would be held on 16th and 17th October in the Turkmen capital to finalise the framework ahead of the summit.

However, he said that the Federal Minister for Petroleum and Natural Resources (MPNR) Usman Amin-ud-din, who is also the member of the steering committee, is not attending the meeting adding that Secretary, Petroleum, Abdullah Yousuf will head the Pakistan's delegation in the meeting.

He said being a member of the steering committee, Turkmen Minister for Oil and Gas Gurbannazov Nazarov and the Afghan Minister for Mineral and Industries Juma M. Mohammad would lead their respective countries' delegation in the meeting.

Asian Development Bank has agreed to provide grant for the feasibility and pre-feasibility study for the construction of $ 2 billion trans-Afghanistan gas pipelines from Turkmenistan to Pakistan and a protocol in this regard has been signed between the concerned parties in Ashgabad.

A protocol in this regard was signed on 10th July in Ashgabad between the ministers of three countries and the representative of the ADB for carrying out the feasibility and pre-feasibility study of the project and now the bank will start work after the final agreement.

He said that on the request of the three countries, the ADB has agreed to conduct the feasibility and pre-feasibility study of the gas pipeline and will provide initial grant for it. The ADB help will not be any country specific.

He said that the ADB has assured that they would complete the $ 1.5 million feasibility study of the project by June 22, 2003.

The trilateral working group, comprising energy ministers and senior officials of the three countries, was constituted on May 30 last along with two other working groups to implement the pipeline project, enhance trade and develop rail links among the three nations.

It was part of an agreement that was inked here by President General Pervez Musharraf, Turkmenistan President Saparmurat Niyazov and Afghanistan Interim Administration Chairman Hamid Karzai on May 30, following a trilateral summit of the three leaders.

Turkmenistan-Pakistan pipeline will be around 1500 kilometres long from Daulatabad gas field to Gwadar via Afghanistan, to transport 1.5 to 2 BCFD.

He said that first, it was planned that the pipeline will be extended up to Multan but now it will be extended to Gwadar where a plant of liquefied natural gas (LNG) would be set up for export of hydrocarbon to the markets of Far East including Japan.

The ADB has also talked with India and they have indicated that they will extend the pipeline to their territory, the official added.

The fifth largest natural gas producer, Turkmenistan has dedicated Daulatabad gas field with 45 trillion cubic feet (TCF) proven reserves for Pakistan. He further said that beside Daulatabad gas field the ADB would also evaluate the gas field in Turkmenistan adding that the whole feasibility study would be conducted under the supervision of the ADB.

The bank could also join the consortium, which will be set up for the lying of the pipeline in future or it will provide loan to them.

Meanwhile, a source in the ADB maintained that the bank has already allocated $ 0.9 million for conducting of the feasibility study of the project.

When the scribe contacted the spokesman of the MPNR Khurshid Anwar, he said that yes, the delegation of the petroleum ministry would attend the meeting of steering committee in Ashgabad on 16th October.

"The Turkmen government is planning to arrange a trilateral summit of the head of the state of three countries for the finalisation of the agreement but I cannot confirm whether President Musharraf will attend it or not," the spokesman further said.

70

**Adnan Ahmed Ji

Your a funny guy, I will certainly have a nice weekend. I wish more Indians would be a kind as you... You could perhaps be an example to us, and your own countrymen alike.**

I suppose I am honoured at your raising from ‘’Stupid’’ to ‘’Funny’’. Thanks.

*I personally think the Pipeline will benefit all. *

Yes indeed, but, more so Pakistn than India. As you are aware every commodity seller has to compete in the Market Place. So if the Landed Cost of the Natural Gas to the Indians by Ships or by Deep Sea Pipe Line is the same as that from Turkmenistan via Pakistan then the benefit ti India is NIL. Pakistan is the biggest benficiary and I wish Pakistan the Best of Luck to have success in this venture.

But unlike you im not an optamist, im a pessamist of the extreme kind.

You sarted out as a Pessimist. You then became an Optomist and berated me for being a Pessimist and affirmed that you were an Optomist. Now you accept me to be an Optomist and you have reverted to your original Status of Pessamist.

*India and Pakistan will never build a pipeline, and India will end up trying to building it thru the waters, which I think will never happen because there will always be someone against it. I already told you that we cant get you to the negotiating table, you have to do that yourself. Pakistan has nothing to offer you, ITS YOU THAT HAVE TO MAKE THE OFFER. *

If India decides to go in for a Deep Sea Pipe Line the only Nation against it is Pakistan. As you have noticed in the Map on the Intec Site this Deep Sea Pipe Line does not enven come anywhere near Pakistan’s Economy Zone

As I have stated one of the Biggest Sticking Point is that Pakistani Goods are enjoying Most Favoured Nation Status from India for over Five Years.

If you expect India to come to the Negotiating Table to negotiate the reciprocating the MFN Status for Indian goods then, forgive me, but you must be out of your mind.

As regards the Cross Border Terrorism and the Return of the Underworld figures India has been asking for this from the time of Agra and they are right in saying that until Pakistan meets these two requirements India will not come to the negotiating table.

So there is no point in President General Musharraf EXPECTING the Indians to Talk Anywhere Anytime with the Pakistanis.

I suppose that now we should take a Sabbatical and watch the Situation.

The Elections of the DARIWALAS in N.W.F.P. and Balochistan as the Majority Party is not going to be very conducive to India have a Pipe line running through Areas controlled by the DARIWALAS. I haope the situation does not become anything like the one that came upon Iran in 1979.

So again, have a great day.

You are, Sir, Most Kind. And all the very best to your

+++++

**Pakistani Tiger Ji

Dude, you lost me! Musharraf invited Vajpayee while visiting India last year in July. I'm amazed you have included Kargil. Tell me, why did Vajpayee invited Musharraf to India, despite of knowing, it was Musharraf, who Masterminded Kargil?**

As stated in my post above to Adnan Ji Indian Prime Minister Vajpayee took the opportunity of Pakistani President General Musharraf’s visit to ask the Pakistanis to stop the Cross Border Terrorism and that they should hand over the ‘’List of Twenty’’. Prime Minsiter Vajpayee can negotiate better with Pakistan President Geneneral Musharraf as now the General cannot talk of Peace without Vajpayee being most careful of it.

Pakistan is ready for talks with India anytime, anywhere in the world at any level. Clear message to India from President Musharraf!

Pakistan has first got to agree and act upon the three Indian Requirements before the Indians sit down on the Negotiating Table.

Said it above.

Very True and similarly the Indians are waiting for their three requirements.

Have a Nice Day.

+++++

Abdali Ji

Thank you for your post. Hum jaisay doobtey ko yahi to sahara hai.

Let us hope for the best

Have a Nice Day.

71

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
Pakistan has first got to agree and act upon the three Indian Requirements before the Indians sit down on the Negotiating Table.

[/QUOTE]

Thats the main cause ;) don't be demanding :)

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bdsurti

LoC != International Border.

Therefore, no question of Cross-Border Terrorism.

P.S you didn't tell me why Mr. Vajpayee did invite to Musharraf for talks? For Cross Border Terrorism? If so, why didn't India agreeto sign Agra Summit?

Today, Vajpayee rules out every possibility of talks with Paksitan. Furthermore, Pakistan has offered Joint Inquiry with India over Dec. 13. Take a note, India hasn't given Pakistan proof of Dec. 13, was actually carried out by Pakistan. Instead of dialouge, India built up Army forces, banned Bus and Railway service, and Air restriction. Same situation, which India created during the Cold War.

73

**Question Ji

That’s the main cause don’t be demanding**

Why not?

  1. India has given Pakistani Goods MFN Status. Pakistan has to reciprocate. Why should India have to negotiate?

  2. Cross Border Terrorism : It is proved and even Adnan Ji has reiterated that an overwhelming majority of the Jehadis fighting in Kashmir are Punjabis from Pakistan. Thus Cross Border Terrorism is of Pakistani Origin, Instructions and Control. There is no need to negotiate. It has to be stopped.

  3. Handing over the ‘’List of Twenty’’. They are Criminals of Indian Origin. They must be handed Back. There is no need for negotiating this either.

+++++

**Pakistani Tiger Ji

LoC != International Border.

Therefore, no question of Cross-Border Terrorism.

P.S you didn't tell me why Mr. Vajpayee did invite to Musharraf for talks? For Cross Border Terrorism? If so, why didn't India agree to sign Agra Summit?**

Yes Indeed. At the Agra Summit Pakistani President General Musharraf refused to discuss Cross Border Terrorism or the Return of the ‘’List of Twenty’’ or any other matter. Only Kashmir. As such Indian Prime Minister refused to sign the Agra Summit Agreement. Nobody Signs ‘’One Sided Agreements’’. It has to be two sided.

Today, Vajpayee rules out every possibility of talks with Paksitan. Furthermore, Pakistan has offered Joint Inquiry with India over Dec. 13. Take a note, India hasn't given Pakistan proof of Dec. 13, was actually carried out by Pakistan. Instead of dialouge, India built up Army forces, banned Bus and Railway service, and Air restriction. Same situation, which India created during the Cold War.

  1. India needs Pakistan’s positive action, reciprocations and acceptance of the three requirements before any talks can be held.

  2. Pakistan having joint Inquiry for the December13 Episode. Laughable to say the least. Pakistan has accused India for the various Sunni / Shia Killings, Killings of Christians, Killing of Daniel Pearl, Killing of the French Naval Experts.

Fine. Has Pakistan invited India for a Joint Enquiry? Now you realise the unreasonable stance taken by Pakistan?

  1. Gentlemen the Art of Cold War in the Sub-Continent was Commenced by the Wisdom and Sagacity of Pakistan’s Leaders. India refused to join the USA sponsored Cold War by refusing to join Military Pacts sponsored by the USA or give Military Bases to the USA.

OTOH Pakistan joined the SEATO, CENTO AND BAGHDAD PACTS and gave Military Bases to the US Armed Forces. Now do you realise how the Pakistani Government and Media has kept this news from the Pakistani People. Pakistan gave their everlasting promise to fight Communist Russia, Communist China indeed the Whole Communist World. In 1961 or so Pakistan forgot its allegiance to the USA and made Pacts with China including supply of Armament.

Fine. Do not accuse India of creating Situations during the Cold War. The Situations prevailed due to Pakistan joining the US Camp during the Cold War.

I am digressing form the main issue i.e. the Pipe Line. Pakistan should never allow the Bus and Railway Service to India. Every Year at least 100,000 Pakistanis visit India by the Bus and Railway Service. If each Pakistani spends USD 1,000 in India then Pakistan loses Foreign Exchange to the Tune of USD 100 Million. Just as India is hurting Pakistan to the tune of USD 30 Million per year by not playing Cricket with India similarly Pakistan can hurt India to the tune of USD 100 Million per Year. In addition Pakistan can keep on making Millions of US Dollars, may be Billions of US Dollars, by allowing the Transit of Indian Goods to Afghanistan and the Central Asian Republics and providing Confidence Building Measures to India thereby making Billions of Dollars in way of Transit Fees for the Gas Pipe Line.

In addition Pakistan can make Millions of US Dollars by allowing Indian Tourists / Visitors to Pakistan.

When will Pakistan act smart for its own benefit?

Think, Gentlemen Think and then have a very Nice Day.

74

Adnan Ahmed Ji

You, the Pessimist Wins. I, the Optimist Loses :

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=12114

Pak makes India turn its back on pipeline project

Amitav Ranjan

New Delhi, October 27 India will not participate in a proposed natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan as it would cross Pakistan over land, providing Islamabad an opportunity to disrupt supplies if tension between the two escalates. India’s non-participation puts a question mark over the project since the consortium of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan (TAP) had concluded at a meeting on July 9-10 in the Turkmen capital Ashgabat that ‘‘India could be the principal market for the Turkmenistan’s gas’’.

That it was the first such proposal to be backed by a multilateral agency—the Asian Development Bank (ADB)—failed to cut much ice with New Delhi.** ‘‘ADB’s presence is unlikely to change Pakistan’s behaviour which is both unpredictable and unreliable. There is every possibility of Pakistan disrupting supplies and using the pipeline as a leverage against us,’’ **said sources. It would also be foolhardy to join hands with Islamabad on economic issues while it foments terrorism in India, they added.

Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee had also underlined the Government’s tough line when, at the public meeting in New Delhi on Friday to mark three years of his Government, he said, ‘‘Our neighbouring country is fast developing into a terrorist nation’’ that ‘‘kept sending terrorists into India’’.

The pipeline is the second one to be hampered by strained India-Pakistan relations. Islamabad blocked the Iran-India pipeline from crossing its economic coastal zone, prompting New Delhi to consider an offshore route outside Pakistan’s coastal boundary.

ADB approached India soon after it was mandated as the project development partner asking New Delhi to participate in the project to export gas from the Dauletabad-Donmez fields of Turkmenistan across landlocked Afghanistan to a terminus in Karachi through a 1,600-km pipeline.

It said that it recognised India’s security concerns over steady gas supply, but added that ‘‘this can be discussed and appropriate mechanisms to minimise and mitigate such risks be devised once India indicates its willingness to participate in the project’’.

ADB had indicated that if India were to consider buying gas, the supply could be about 42 billion cubic metres per day for a contract period of 25 years starting within four years after signing the contract. The gas would be priced between $2.4 to $3.0 per million British thermal units and its delivery at a mutually-agreed location in northern Rajasthan or southern Punjab at the Indo-Pak border, it said.

**In another setback, the summit during which the leaders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkmenistan were expected to sign the framework agreement on the pipeline was postponed indefinitely today.

Among the reasons cited by Turkmen authorities: the formation of a government and questions raised by the ADB on financial aspects of the plan**

Never mind. I am positive that this Pipe Line will eventually be built overland in Pakistan as I am sure Pakistan will now get on with the task of addressing the issue ofConfidence Building Measures with India.

Then I will win and when I win you also win

Have a nice day