Pipelines from Turkmenistan and Iran to India

Society Military and Strategic Issues
21

**First post 10-07-2002 07:11 PM

  1. Like I said before, Militants cannot destroy the Pipeline. Pakistan will provide all the security that is needed to protect it. I honestly dont think you have to worry about that. Unlike the LOC, this pipeline will not be running thru foothills of the Himalayas.
  2. Like I said before, Pakistan would see no need to invade anything in India, the benefits of the pipeline will prevent this. You seem to accuse us of not trusting you, but I think we can accuse you of the same thing.
    The Pakistani got would not want to do anything to harm the pipeline because they wouldnt want to lose the benefits from it, and also becuase the Iranis are also involved, and the rest of the world, which may also be interested in investing in the field will be wary of what Pakistan does.
  3. If you dont give us a reason to shut of the pipeline. then we wont have a prblem. That sorta situation may arrise if you try and shut of our water supply, which woould hurt millions of people, if you invade and manage to cut our country in two, or if you manage to capture major cities. But none of this will unless India behaves itself, and I think it will, and not start the war mongering as before.
  4. As for a Economically strong Pakistan being a threat, I dont mean a military threat. And I only refer to the Kashmir problem when I say this. India will have to talk to economically powerurful Pakistan, this will lead to a settlement of the KASHMIR ISSUE. I dont mean this as a threat but that is the way you people take it. An economically powerful PAKISTAN IN MY OPPINION IS NOT A THREAT, BUT WILL FORCE iNDIA TO COMPRAMISE MORE. wHICH WIL BE GOOD FOR THE REGOON.
    tO BE CONTINUED…
    I seriously dont think that India has anything to fear of a**

**First Post 10-07-2002 07:11 PM

Adnan Ahmed Ji**

You are repeating, re-repeating then you keep on repeating that Pakistan will not shut off the Gas supply without Reason.

With the India-Pakistan past relationship we know of the 1965 War – 8,000 Infiltrators from Pakistan into Kashmir and also the Kargil Affair.

I will not say who won of lost – it’s a waste of time.

It happened.

So we say let us say what happens if Pakistan invades India in a surprise attack and captures 1,000 Square (nearly missed this word again) Miles of Indian Territory. India Retaliates. Pakistan shuts off the Gas.

A large part of North India’s Industry grinds to a Halt.

You must discuss this hypothesis instead of repeating that it will not happen.
An analogy is I state and re-state ‘’India will never Invade Pakistan’’. Does that mean that Pakistan will disband its 600,000 Strong Armed Forces? I have the reply already : NO WAY JOSE.

So you have to discuss this problem and find a via media.

Realising the difficulties with the proposed Pile Lines Shell has ordered four Special Tankers of 135,000 mt Liquified Gas capacity to service their Industry and also supply to other bulk users to the tune of Five Million mt per Year. The article states :

  1. The company is setting up a five million tonne per annum (mtpa) capacity LNG terminal at Hazira which is scheduled for limited operation (2.5-2.6 million tonnes) in 2004 and full-scale operation in December 2006-07.

  2. Orders for four 135,000 mm LNG carriers have already been placed by Shell with Mitsui Heavy Industries of Japan and Daewoo of Korea. The first LNG carrier is expected to be delivered in the second half of 2002.

For the full article please use the link :

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?artid=24449192

My idea is that local money should be used for local i.e. in the neighbourhood benefits. Here Billions of US Dollars will be earned by South Korea and Japan in building the ships and again for Building the ‘’Gasification Plants’’.

So Adnan Ji Pakistan has to now take the next step to build Confidence Building Measures.

You are also silent about Pakistan reciprocating to India’s granting MNF Status to Pakistani goods by granting MNF Status to Indian Goods.

My dear Friend it takes Two to Tango.

Regarding an Economically Strong and Stable Pakistan : It is I who stated that this is to India’s benefit. It is you who stated that this would be India’s worst nightmare. You even stated that I should be disturbed by your statement.
You now limit this to Kashmir. So you think that the Indians are out of their mind to let Pakistan earn USD Two Billion Per Year so that India ends up losing Kashmir? Well done Sir.

If Pakistan does not make Confidence Building Measures with India then both India and Pakistan will lose out. Of course India being that much larger can, rightly or wrongly, spend its money for its own Strategic Needs and Interests.

Have a Nice Day

22

Second Post 10-07-2002 07:43 PM

Adnanji : Rather than waste your time I would put my views as follows :

Pakistan should maintain its Armed forces to its own perceptions. However, Pakistan need not try and match India’s Defence capabilities. Mexico or Canada do not match the Defence Capabilities of the USA.

Pakistan must not shuts its eyes to the true need for India to spend may be USD 30 Billion per year on its Defence Budget. This is not Pakistan specific. I do not have to name India’s reasons for such a Defence Budget.

India has sufficient responsibilities to take care of its over One Billion Population. India would be Insane to take over the responsibility of 140,000,000 Pakistanis. Due to the perception of your leaders Health, Education and Welfare have suffered greatly in Pakistan. I am not saying that all is rosy in India, but, in the filed of Education India has achieved 65 per cent Literacy. Please read the rate of Pakistan’s Literacy as described by CNN’s Pakistani Correspondent :

**Pakistan’s shaky democracy

From CNN Islamabad Bureau Chief Ash-har Quraishi
Monday, October 7, 2002 Posted: 3:36 PM HKT (0736 GMT)

In a country with an illiteracy rate of over 70 percent**

India still has to Educate 35 per cent of its Population i.e. 350 Millions. This is a hard task. Pakistan has to still educate Seventy per cent of its Population i.e. 100 Million People. Do you think India is Insane enough to take up this task. You must be joking.

In addition Pakistan’s Economical Situation is precarious to say the least. NO SIR PAKISTAN IS NOT A FAILED NATION. Just the Economic Situation is precarious. Nothing that cannot be improved for the better. It is a hard task and again India is not Insane to take over this responsibility. So my good friend be rest assured that India does not want to take over Pakistan. Pakistan may want to take over India and improve its Economic Situation.

In ‘’4.’’ You state India annexed East Pakistan. No Sir. I think India walked out of Bangladesh even before they were asked to leave. My recollection is within Ninety Days. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regarding Trust : India is putting its future in Pakistan’s Control. It is for Pakistan to now make Confidence Building Measures thereby building up India’s Trust in Pakistan’s Ability and Seriousness to safeguard the Gas Pipe Line passing through its Territory and maintain an unrestricted Flow of Gas.

Adnan Ji : You and I can just JAW-JAW. Please appreciate that your arguments for a land Pipe Line were based on the fact that even the Sea Pipeline will have to pass through Pakistan’s Territorial Waters or even Economic Zone.

I have already proved to you the fact that a Deep Sea Pipe Line can be constructed. India has no great need to route its Gas via a Land Pipeline through Pakistan. Now I read the news of the Four LNG Tankers being acquired. Thus India has two alternatives of which it has already put one into use.

I do do hope that Pakistan will take all necessary steps to give India the Confidence to build the Gas Pipe Line via the ‘’Over the land in Pakistan’’ route rather than going in for a Deep Sea Pipe Line or acquiring more Gas Tankers.

Please be rest assure that it is unrealistic and unconvincing to say that building the pipe line will be a way towards mutual trust. Sir the true and pertinent statement is that only mutual trust already created will ensure that the Land Pipe Line through Pakistan will be built. The best way for Pakistan to cultivate this mutual trust with India is to offer Confidence Building Measures to India.

Regarding India’s Build up on the Border with Pakistan : You are fully aware of the Reasons i.e. in addition to Cross Border Terrorism the despicable attack on India’s Parliament.

Regarding India’s Nuclear and Missile Programme : India is Seven Times the size of Pakistan. Just as India has no right to question Pakistan for its Nuclear and Missile Programme similarly with Pakistan vis-à-vis India.

In addition when India Tests its Nuclear Bombs Pakistan protests vehemently that it is in Danger. India Intends to Destroy Pakistan.

India’s Response to Pakistan’s Nuclear Tests for which Pakistan states ‘’now we can destroy India’’ : ‘’It is an internal matter for Pakistan’’ or similar words.

India’s response to Pakistani Missile Tests for which Pakistan States ‘’Our Missiles are capable of hitting ANY PART of India with Nuclear Weapons and Destroy it Completely’’. India’s Response : We are capable of defending ourselves’’ or similar words.

Please note that I have heard Mr. Gohar Ayub telling David Frost on BBC One TeleVision make the statement, similar to the above.

To put the matter at rest, you are right. You and I should stop this discussions as you are not even willing to consider my request in my initial post that need views as to what Confidence Building Measures Pakistan should take to convince India to agree to the Iran-India Gas Pipe Line to be built over land in Pakistan.

You have stated about the Kashmir Issue, India’s Defence Budget and Arms Build Up, India’s massing her troops on the Indo-Pak Border, Bangladesh and now I am sure you will start on the Hindu-Muslim problem. Well while you are at it you can also criticise the Hindu Caste System, the superior feeling of the Brahmins etc. etc. You may also refer to the Sati incidents etc etc.

Will you talk of Confidence Building that Pakistan should take : NO.

So how do you expect this discussion to go on?

The Moderators have, in their Wisdom, deleted rviz’s post of 10-06-2002 09:56 AM and your post of 10-07-2002 07:11 PM and as such there is no point of my putting down India’s Version of the various Events.

I take this opportunity to thank you for indulging me in my wishes for the Iran-India and Turkmenistan-India Gas Pipes Lines to be built via the Pakistan Land Route but you have convinced me that it is not in India’s Interest to do so. After all India does not need to face a Nightmare Scenario.

Have a Nice Day

23

;;;;

24

You obviously missed my entire point.
I will repeat myself again and this time I hope you will take more time to understand. My view is that economic growth will bring peace and prosperity. Despite your reservations, your complete mistrust of our country, rest assured that Pakistan is no different from any other capatalist driven country. Give a dog a bone and it wont bite you. Pipeline is the bone in this case. Now let me repeat what I said before.
Pakistan would never invade India.
1. Because they know they cant, the world will slap sanctions from every side. The little investment we have gotten will dry up, poverty will rise, and we may hurl ourselves into a nuclear exchange.
2. Because they wouldnt want to lose the cash tree, the pipeline, which gives them 2 billion dollars annualy. And many foreign investors will be carefully monitoring the situation to see their own prospects.
3. They have nothing to gain from going to war.
USE SOME LOGIC HERE.
The Militants wont be able to harm the pipeline, because Pakistan will provide security. The pipeline is easier to secure then the LOC because the terrain isn't as difficult. tHE DETAILS OF THIS WILL BE HAMMERED OUT IN THE NEGOTIATIONS.
4. Iran will also be involved in this, so they will work as extra insurance.
The only threat is from India...
Are you your own worst enemy?
I certainly think so. Your defense of your billion defenseless people (WHO THE HELL IS YOUR ENEMY) is leading us all down the toilet. So if you expect us to take it easY on our defense spending, perhaps you should do the same.
If India behaves itself, doesnt start its war mongering, I doubt there will be a problem. And even if it does, and there is a war, I doubt Pakistan will harm the pipeline, as long as we dont get into any extreme situation.
India current stance is completely useless. All it expected top gain from its war mongering, it has gained. Pakistan has said it will check cross border terrorism. Short of all out war, which India is not willing to go to, there is very little we can do. We are stuck, people are dieing, and both economies are hurting. The goal now is to either call for talks, act like the "mature democracy" that you claim to be, or start someplce else, something that will build up mutual trust. The pipeline can do just that. But just like everything else, India snubs that idea aswell.. We cant even play cricket for god sakes, let alone cooperate on something like a pipeline.
As for our problems, lets tackle the differnence in literacy. The states that make up modern day Pakistan, were always far behind those of India. Our side was generaly feudalistic as it is today. Our side was one of the most under developed regions in the entire Subcontinent.
From the start, Pakistan ridden with Problems, to many to name. Despite this, all the way up to the 90's, our average income was higher then the Indians. So while we obviously lack in many areas, we are not that far behind you. And let me remind you that even your lower literacy rates aren't all that rosy either. So dont start giving me that bull about how great we are. Your country is not exactly ther pargon of development. I dont see the merits in comapring one third world country to another. You worry about your problems and we will worry about ours.

And last, I never asked your govt to be responsible for my country.So I dont know where you got that from.
Its obvious to me that our stance cant be reconciled. Trust us or not, Its up to you, your can sit there and ignore us all you want, by all means, please make your pipeline someplace else, but eventually, you will have to come to terms with our country, and you will realize that your stuck with us come hell or high water. The Ball is in your court, we obviously cant keep swimming in circles, there has to be a starting point, but we cant do more to appease you.
You have nice day :)

25

I don't think Pakistan would go against PipeLine project. Problem is Afghan warlords. They are the one, who has been harming peace of Afghanistan. US troops are around Kabul and Kandhar [Eastern Afghanistan]

26

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by bdsurti: *
**Pakistani Tiger* – Thank you for complementing my post with your additional input.
[/quote]

No problem :)

27

Adnan Ji : To humour you I will discuss this matter fully with you – hopefully for the last time. You are requested to please answer point by point. :

You obviously missed my entire point.
I will repeat myself again and this time I hope you will take more time to understand. My view is that economic growth will bring peace and prosperity. Despite your reservations, your complete mistrust of our country, rest assured that Pakistan is no different from any other capatalist driven country. Give a dog a bone and it wont bite you. Pipeline is the bone in this case. Now let me repeat what I said before.

Please admit that it was I, initially, who stated that ‘’An Economically Strong and Stable Pakistan is in India’s Interest’’

You stated : An Economically strong and Stable Pakistan is India’s worst nightmare

Now you change your tune. Well I look at the bright side and accept that this is the point we have agreed.

The analogy that Pakistan is the dog and the Pipe Line is the bone is ridiculous to say the least. In Nation to Nation Relation if One Nation is agree to the Benefit of the Other then it is the Other Nation to provide Confidence to the Nation that is allowing benefits to the Other i.e. in this case First Pakistan has to Provide Confidence Building measures to India and then India will agree to the Pipe Line.

Pakistan would never invade India.

Because they know they cant, the world will slap sanctions from every side. The little investment we have gotten will dry up, poverty will rise, and we may hurl ourselves into a nuclear exchange.**

Pakistan will be slapped with Sanctions which will take a few months to take effect. The effects of Investment Drying UP will be felt again in weeks if not months.

The effects of Pakistan’s shutting off of the Gas Supply will be felt by India IMMIDIATELY. The Industry in North India will have and IMMIDIATE SHUTDOWN.

2. Because they wouldnt want to lose the cash tree, the pipeline, which gives them 2 billion dollars annualy. And many foreign investors will be carefully monitoring the situation to see their own prospects.

The effect of the cash tree PAYMENTS will be felt a month later. Please address you attention to Pakistan suffering a Month Later but India SUFFERING IMMEDIATELY

3. They have nothing to gain from going to war.
USE SOME LOGIC HERE.
The Militants wont be able to harm the pipeline, because Pakistan will provide security. The pipeline is easier to secure then the LOC because the terrain isn't as difficult.THE DETAILS OF THIS WILL BE HAMMERED OUT IN THE NEGOTIATIONS.

Tell that to the Jack Booted Tin Pots. To enter into negotiations, the Indian who want the Pipe Line through Pakistan, will need some CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES from Pakistan.

At this stage I would like to state that India will never Invade Pakistan for all the above Reasons.

4. Iran will also be involved in this, so they will work as extra insurance.
The only threat is from India...
Are you your own worst enemy?
I certainly think so. Your defense of your billion defenseless people (WHO THE HELL IS YOUR ENEMY) is leading us all down the toilet. So if you expect us to take it easY on our defense spending, perhaps you should do the same.
If India behaves itself, doesnt start its war mongering, I doubt there will be a problem. And even if it does, and there is a war, I doubt Pakistan will harm the pipeline, as long as we dont get into any extreme situation.
India current stance is completely useless. All it expected top gain from its war mongering, it has gained. Pakistan has said it will check cross border terrorism. Short of all out war, which India is not willing to go to, there is very little we can do. We are stuck, people are dieing, and both economies are hurting. The goal now is to either call for talks, act like the "mature democracy" that you claim to be, or start someplce else, something that will build up mutual trust. The pipeline can do just that. But just like everything else, India snubs that idea aswell.. We cant even play cricket for god sakes, let alone cooperate on something like a pipeline.

Iran’s involvement can never be an end all. If the Gas Flow is stopped what do you think the Iranians will do? Of Course they will COMMENCE TALKS. In the meantime Indian Industry is up the spout.

Please read History. The arms race was started in the Fifties. Pakistan acquired Sophisticated Arms first.

You have the great ability to pick out a few words and ignore the rest. I have earlier Stated that in view of China’s Defence Budget being USD 60 Billion India’s Defence Budget will rise to USD 30 Billion as India’s GDP is Half of China’s GDP. Pakistan wants to have at least Half of India’s Military Strength. Fine Pakistan is welcome to Increase its Defence Budget to USD 15 Billion. I have also stated that Pakistan’s Defence Spending is Pakistan’s prerogative and India has no right to criticise it. Similarly Pakistan cannot criticise India’s Defence Budget. India has no right to tell Pakistan what to do. Similarly Pakistan vis-à-vis India.

As for our problems, lets tackle the differnence in literacy. The states that make up modern day Pakistan, were always far behind those of India. Our side was generaly feudalistic as it is today. Our side was one of the most under developed regions in the entire Subcontinent.

Lame Excuse. West Punjab was the Granary of India, if not Asia. East Punjab was no where in Grain Output as West Punjab. West Punjab also had a light engineering base. Mogulpura and Risalpura were MANUFACTURING Steam Locomotives by taking old discarded Steam Locomotive and manufacturing all the parts that were needed to Refurbish them. I think the manufacturing input was over sixty Per Cent. All this was destroyed for reasons that I cannot fathom.

From the start, Pakistan ridden with Problems, to many to name. Despite this, all the way up to the 90's, our average income was higher then the Indians. So while we obviously lack in many areas, we are not that far behind you. And let me remind you that even your lower literacy rates aren't all that rosy either. So dont start giving me that bull about how great we are. Your country is not exactly ther pargon of development. I dont see the merits in comapring one third world country to another. You worry about your problems and we will worry about ours.

UNDERSTATEMENT : Until 1990 the Pakistani average Income was about USD 75 per head better than Indian. Today the Indian average Income is about USD 50 to 75 more than Pakistani.

I am surprised that you are talking of India’s Lower Literacy Rates : In India/Pakistan Terms India’s 65 per cent Literacy is definitely rosy when compared to Pakistans 30 per cent at best.

Could you please explain to me the ‘’bull about how great we (meaning Pakistan/Pakistanis) are’’ that you attribute to me.

You compare Pakistan and India in Cricket

You Compare Pakistan and India in Hockey

You compare Pakistan with India in Terms of Military Might.

Why not compare Pakistan with India in Terms of Literacy?

Please note that my comparison was to Justify the fact that this was one of the reasons why India would never Invade Pakistan.

*And last, I never asked your govt to be responsible for my country.So I dont know where you got that from. *

As I have already explained in detail this was in reference to why India would not Invade Pakistan as India does not want to take over the responsibility of 140,000,000 People.

*Its obvious to me that our stance cant be reconciled. Trust us or not, Its up to you, your can sit there and ignore us all you want, by all means, please make your pipeline someplace else, but eventually, you will have to come to terms with our country, and you will realize that your stuck with us come hell or high water. The Ball is in your court, we obviously cant keep swimming in circles, there has to be a starting point, but we cant do more to appease you.
You have nice day *

The stance can only be reconciled if two parts wish so. India wants to build the Gas Pipe Lines overland through Pakistan. All I am asking is in the opinion of my Pakistani Friends what Confidence building Measures can Pakistan Offer India?

Pakistan has still not reciprocated for nearly five years to India granting Pakistani goods MFN Status. Why is Pakistan not reciprocating? Does Pakistan always want to be at the receiving of benefits end?

TO BE CONTINUED

28

Adnan Ji, India has just taken the first step to get the Gas from the Persian Gulf by LNG Carriers. The Ball is in Pakistan’s Court to offer Confidence Building Measures to India so that at least Half of India’s Gas requirements are transported through Land Pipeline through Pakistan.

Regarding non-playing of Cricket. India has linked this to the Cross Border Terrorism the Pakistani Government insists that the Jehadis are only Kashmiris and not from any other part of Pakistan.

The Indian Government is totally convinced that the major Part of the Jihadis are Pakistanis.

Your post of 10-05-02 05:08 AM on the Thread ‘’The uptightness of Punjabi Majoritarianism’’ confirms the Indian government’s View as you state as follows :

Yaar, Im not calling you people traitors, but rember, who are the majority fighting out for our country in Siachin Who are the majority on the Loc and the border. Who are the Jihadis that run head long into Indian security forces in Kashmir?

Yes Indeed they are Pakistanis of Punjabi Origin.

This also confirms that the Pakistani Government is not being Economic with the Truth but is totally ignoring it with massive prevarication.

As India sees it the Pakistan Cricket Board has lost over USD 50 Million in two years i.e. USD 30 Million in the precious Year and USD 20 Million in the current Year. I appreciate that Politics should not be used in Sport but the ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR.

So Bhai Ji let us start with Pakistan offering Confidence Building Measures to India and India agrees to going ahead with the Land Pipe Line for Gas through Pakistan.

Please answer point by point.

That will make my day.

Have a nice day.

29

Pakistani Tiger

Answering your second post first :

*No problem *

Thanks again

Now your First Post

I don't think Pakistan would go against PipeLine project. Problem is Afghan warlords. They are the one, who has been harming peace of Afghanistan. US troops are around Kabul and Kandhar (Eastern Afghanistan)

My Friend your are giving up even before we started. Pakistan does not have to invest Money in this Project. All Pakistan has to do is to go laughing all the way to the bank. Yes Sir One Billion US Dollars as Transit Fees ANNUALLY. Hing Lago Na Phatkiri Aney Chokkho Rung Jamaye. Even you can understand this Gujarati saying.

The Pipe Line will be constructed and buried underground. Pakistanis will be employed in Pipe Line Maintenance Capacity. All wages and cost of material used in maintenance will be paid by the Company that has Financed this Pipe Line i.e. Owners of the Pipe Line.

Afghanistan will earn similar amount. So what are you worried about.

It is just that India has not agreed to use this Pipe Line to transport Gas to India.

Put your thinking cap on. What, in your opinion, are the Confidence Building Measures that Pakistan should offer India so that India’s Security Fears can be allayed?

Have a Nice Day

30

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
Adnan Ji, India has just taken the first step to get the Gas from the Persian Gulf by LNG Carriers. The Ball is in Pakistan’s Court to offer Confidence Building Measures to India so that at least Half of India’s Gas requirements are transported through Land Pipeline through Pakistan.

Regarding non-playing of Cricket. India has linked this to the Cross Border Terrorism the Pakistani Government insists that the Jehadis are only Kashmiris and not from any other part of Pakistan.

The Indian Government is totally convinced that the major Part of the Jihadis are Pakistanis.

Your post of 10-05-02 05:08 AM on the Thread ‘’The uptightness of Punjabi Majoritarianism’’ confirms the Indian government’s View as you state as follows :

Yaar, Im not calling you people traitors, but rember, who are the majority fighting out for our country in Siachin Who are the majority on the Loc and the border. Who are the Jihadis that run head long into Indian security forces in Kashmir?

Yes Indeed they are Pakistanis of Punjabi Origin.

This also confirms that the Pakistani Government is not being Economic with the Truth but is totally ignoring it with massive prevarication.

As India sees it the Pakistan Cricket Board has lost over USD 50 Million in two years i.e. USD 30 Million in the precious Year and USD 20 Million in the current Year. I appreciate that Politics should not be used in Sport but the ALL IS FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR.

So Bhai Ji let us start with Pakistan offering Confidence Building Measures to India and India agrees to going ahead with the Land Pipe Line for Gas through Pakistan.

Please answer point by point.

That will make my day.

Have a nice day.
[/QUOTE]

We cant offer you anything unless you decide to come to negotiation tables. Im certain we can come up with something. But nothing will happen unless India decides it wants to talk.
So infact, the ball is in your court. If you dont want to play, fine!
Have it your own way. But Indians should realize they are losing a huge oppurtunity.
Have a nice day:)

31

Originally posted by bdsurti: *
**My Friend your are giving up even before we started. Pakistan does not have to invest Money in this Project. All Pakistan has to do is to go laughing all the way to the bank. Yes Sir One Billion US Dollars as Transit Fees ANNUALLY. Hing Lago Na Phatkiri Aney Chokkho Rung Jamaye. Even you can understand this Gujarati saying.*

LOL! First of all, I don't know Gujarati, sorry.

The Pipe Line will be constructed and buried underground. Pakistanis will be employed in Pipe Line Maintenance Capacity. All wages and cost of material used in maintenance will be paid by the Company that has Financed this Pipe Line i.e. Owners of the Pipe Line.

True to that!

Afghanistan will earn similar amount. So what are you worried about.

Warlords!

It is just that India has not agreed to use this Pipe Line to transport Gas to India.

Excuse me?

Put your thinking cap on. What, in your opinion, are the Confidence Building Measures that Pakistan should offer India so that India’s Security Fears can be allayed?

Pakistan has never threatened India as India had and still does. Pakistan has always prefer dialouges. India always keeps away from dialouge because Indian official knows Pakistan will put forward Kashmir on the table. There's no discussion of Kashmir on the Project of Pipe line. Period.

*Have a Nice Day *

Same to you.

32

Adnan Ahmed & Pakistani Tiger

Fine. Thank you very much Gentlemen. There will be no Land Gas Pipe Line going through Pakistan, in the near future, as every discussion has to First Discuss and Settle Kashmir as per Pakistani Requirements.

Yes, India is being very unreasonable as it is denying Pakistan an annual earning of between One and Two Billion US Dollars as Transit Fees without any Investment from Pakistan as well as denying Pakistani people the jobs they would have got if India had not stuck to its unreasonable stance. Naughty India.

As the MFN Status has proved Pakistan is only interested in getting Benefits from India. Pakistan is not willing to reciprocate. This once again prove India’s unrelenting and unrealistic stance.

The Saying ‘’Hing Lago Na Phatkiri Aney Chokkho Rung Jamaye.’’ Translated roughly into English is that without using Hing (Asafoetida – I think you might call it Heeng) or Phatkiri (Alum) all the benefits were achieved i.e. Manna from Heaven.

Never mind. There may be no Land Gas Pipe Line going through Pakistan, in the near future, but being an OPTOMIST I hope there will be one eventually.

Gentlemen have a very nice day.

33

I agree with the above, also an underwater pipeline is also out of the question the Russians dumped the idea 10 years ago. The only pipeline that has the chances of materializing is one from CA to Karachi or Gawadar port…

http://www.dawn.com/2002/05/20/top16.htm
Dawn has gathered from various energy firms that a deep-sea pipeline through Arabian sea was not possible at any cost. There are only four off-shore pipelines and that too of 20-inch dia in Europe and North Sea and ranged between 600 and 1,800 meters in depth.

India needed offshore pipeline of no less than 48 inches in diameters. There are only two ships in the world, in Italy and Holland, capable of laying sea pipelines and their capacity is only for laying 20-inch diameter pipelines.

If a larger pipeline is to be laid a new ship would have to be built. There is no ship currently in the world market to lay a 48-inch or larger diameter pipelines. And if this pipeline is to be outside of Pakistan’s territorial waters, its depth will be up to 4,000 meters and such pipelines have also not been designed so far. The Arabian sea also has enough volcanic characteristics to disturb the deep-sea pipeline.

34

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

I agree with the above, also an underwater pipeline is also out of the question the Russians dumped the idea 10 years ago. The only pipeline that has the chances of materializing is one from CA to Karachi or Gawadar port.....
[/QUOTE]

So you say...

35

Abdali Ji

Obviously you have not read the various posts.

Obviously DAWN has not done its Homework.

There are three alternatives :

  1. Land Pipe Line throught Pakistan

  2. Deep Sea Pipe Line, which, will not pass through Pakistan’s Economic Zone

  3. Specialized 135,000 Mt to 150,000 Mt Soze LNG Carriers.

Alternative Three : Shell has already contracted for Four LNG Carriers of 135,000 MT Size to land the gas at Hazira near Surat.

Alternative Two : Please check on the following Links.

http://www.intec-hou.com/images/projects/survey/oman.gif

http://www.intec-hou.com/expertise/...ume.asp?r_id=68

I would also draw your attention to the Home Page : www.intec-hou.com and this will give you more information.

Other Sites to check are www.offshore-technology.com and www.ocean-resources.com

I would prefer Alternative One as I Am an OPTOMIST, but, it seems nothing will happen until India agrees to hand over Jammu and Kashmir on a plate to Paksitan so that Pakistan can then earn 1.5 to 2 Billion US Dollars as Transit Fees for the Land Pipe Line.

We can keep wishing.

Have a Nice Day

36

Perhaps you should educate the Russians they dumped the idea of deep sea line from Iran decade ago. Why do you think this sea route option is still on the drawing board and chances are slim it will happen. The only option is 3 and not a very good one.

What are you waiting for get going and lets see the pipeline on your shores..

37

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *

I would prefer Alternative One as I Am an OPTOMIST, but, it seems nothing will happen until India agrees to hand over Jammu and Kashmir on a plate to Paksitan

[/QUOTE]

I don't think Pakistan requires a Kashmir solution to set up such a deal. It's in the interests of both countries to get past this blinkered viewpoint and talk business.

38

Commercial western companies will never allow gas/oil pipe line though unstable countries like Pakistan. Its very high risk for them.

So Pakistan can jump up and down all it wants - but companies like Shell will never allow it to go through Pakistan.

Its fact of life.

39

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Abdali: *

Perhaps you should educate the Russians they dumped the idea of deep sea line from Iran decade ago. Why do you think this sea route option is still on the drawing board and chances are slim it will happen. The only option is 3 and not a very good one.

What are you waiting for get going and lets see the pipeline on your shores..
[/QUOTE]

Abdali Ji

You should read the details of Deep Sea Pipe Lines before commenting on the Russians dumping the Idea.

My Dear Sir the Oman-India Deep Sea Pipe Line was considered feasible in 1994 AND THE TECHOLOGY WAS THERE TO GO AHEAD. The only reason that it did not go ahead was that it was too costly if used for Oman Gas only.

Now that there are other sources in the Persian Gulf so this Pipe Line, if Required, can go ahead. We have moved Eight Years.

Now there are facilities to DRILL FOR OIL AND GAS TO A DEPTH OF 10,000 METRES.

I would request Abdali Ji that you check the Four Links that I have given in my last post.

Once you have read the details in the Four Links then please comment.

You should note that unfortunately the Russians do not posses the means to lay a Deep Sea Pipe Line

Have a Nice Day

40

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *

I don't think Pakistan requires a Kashmir solution to set up such a deal.

It's in the interests of both countries to get past this blinkered viewpoint and talk business.
[/QUOTE]

Mr Xtreme

Well said.

Your second sentence says it all.

Lets hope both our Governments think similarly

Have a Nice Day