Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
I'd like to start a petition against those who censor information because of their ignorance.
making of pictures and labeling it Hazoor PBUH is not ignorance according to you
but if some one say donot do it
you say its ignorance
nice thinking and still you say you are muslim , good , good
hopefully you will be soon awarded with noble prize
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
making of pictures and labeling it Hazoor PBUH is not ignorance according to you but if some one say donot do it you say its ignorance nice thinking and still you say you are muslim , good , good
hopefully you will be soon awarded with noble prize
Again, you fail to understand the distinction. Am I advocating that people go out and make pictures of Mohammed? No.
It would be ridiculous. No one knows what he looks like, so the picture would just be as you see him in your mind. In other words, its really not a picture OF the Prophet. Its a picture of how YOU perceive him.
Nevertheless, what I'm saying is that these are pieces of history, and you can't discard pieces of history you dislike on whim. You have to preserve it so it can be referenced and understood. The people who made them are dead. So, you can't punish them or chide them. But you can't stop people from referencing history. WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO. There is no such prohibition in Islam, and certainly not from God, and therefore, you have no right to ask that such a prohibiion be made. You can't make something unlawful that is lawful, and this is directly from the Quran.
If I sign this petition, I am actually NOT saying "We shouldn't make pictures of the prophet". I'm saying "We should not reference parts of history that we dislike", which is academically silly. How many papers have you written in school about bad things that happened in history? How many incidents have you read about that were evil? Should they have happened? No. Should you read about them? Yes, you need knowledge. That means you need knowledge of the evil as well as the good, so that you can differentiate between the two, and so that you DON'T repeat history.
You can't expect people not to make the same mistakes again if you don't share with people mistakes dones in the past.
Is that more clear to you now?
Muslims over centuries have done things they shouldn't have. You cannot erase that information. For what? So that you can show the world how perfect muslims have been? You can't hide the stains of Islamic history. Islam doesn't need that from you. Its pristine and perfect on its own. However, its followers have not been, and there is no shame in admitting that mistakes were made in the past.
Hence, you should not censor history.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
Again, you fail to understand the distinction. Am I advocating that people go out and make pictures of Mohammed? No.
thanx to almighty Allah
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It would be ridiculous. No one knows what he looks like, so the picture would just be as you see him in your mind. In other words, its really not a picture OF the Prophet. Its a picture of how YOU perceive him.
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same way idol worshipper say we perceive god as this idol , it doesn't mean god look like this
one make , other start worshipping and result obvious
we all know , none can perceive him correctly , as none of sahaba make picture of him and so we don't have any pic
if some one have pic of his imagination , kindly keep that with himself
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Nevertheless, what I'm saying is that these are pieces of history, and you can't discard pieces
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not piece of accepted islamic history
is some one really want to show them , paste in his work , not in general article describing Muhammad
tomorrow , denmark cartoons will also become history and you will see they will be posted here in the name of history
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of history you dislike on whim. You have to preserve it so it can be referenced and understood. The people who made them are dead. So, you can't punish them or chide them. But you can't stop people from referencing history. WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO. There is no such prohibition in Islam, and certainly not from God, and therefore, you have no right to ask that such a prohibiion be made. You can't make something unlawful that is lawful, and this is directly from the Quran.
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If I sign this petition, I am actually NOT saying "We shouldn't make pictures of the prophet". I'm saying "We should not reference parts of history that we dislike", which is academically silly.
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why not paste this in work of thoes people
rather then in article describing Muhammad PBUH as these pics are accepted pics of Muhammad in islam
pasting this here is academically silly , because they are not accepted in islamic history
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How many papers have you written in school about bad things that happened in history?
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i have writting many papers in different academical conferences around the world but unfortunately all of them were on Computer science , none of them were on history :(
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How many incidents have you read about that were evil? Should they have happened? No.
Should you read about them? Yes, you need knowledge. That means you need knowledge of the evil as well as the good, so that you can differentiate between the two, and so that you DON'T repeat history.
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does this justify to paste pictures in article describing Muhammad PBUH with name Muhammad PBUH
honestly tell me
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You can't expect people not to make the same mistakes again if you don't share with people mistakes dones in the past.
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doesn't this should come as separate
if today if i say some thing about Muhammad PBUH after 15 houndred years , will that part of Muhammad PBUH history
or that will be described in todays history or about mine
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Is that more clear to you now?
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hopefully to you as well
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Muslims over centuries have done things they shouldn't have. You cannot erase that information.
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should they all be part of Muhammad PBUH history
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For what? So that you can show the world how perfect muslims have been? You can't hide the stains of Islamic history Islam doesn't need that from you. Its pristine and perfect on its own. However, its followers have not been, and there is no shame in admitting that mistakes were made in the past.
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should all of them be written in Muhammad PBUH history , does it justify
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Hence, you should not censor history.
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again should we write all of them in Muhammad PBUH history to not censor it
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
Again, you fail to understand the distinction. Am I advocating that people go out and make pictures of Mohammed? No.
It would be ridiculous. No one knows what he looks like, so the picture would just be as you see him in your mind. In other words, its really not a picture OF the Prophet. Its a picture of how YOU perceive him.
Nevertheless, what I'm saying is that these are pieces of history, and you can't discard pieces of history you dislike on whim. You have to preserve it so it can be referenced and understood. The people who made them are dead. So, you can't punish them or chide them. But you can't stop people from referencing history. WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO DO. There is no such prohibition in Islam, and certainly not from God, and therefore, you have no right to ask that such a prohibiion be made. You can't make something unlawful that is lawful, and this is directly from the Quran.
If I sign this petition, I am actually NOT saying "We shouldn't make pictures of the prophet". I'm saying "We should not reference parts of history that we dislike", which is academically silly. How many papers have you written in school about bad things that happened in history? How many incidents have you read about that were evil? Should they have happened? No. Should you read about them? Yes, you need knowledge. That means you need knowledge of the evil as well as the good, so that you can differentiate between the two, and so that you DON'T repeat history.
You can't expect people not to make the same mistakes again if you don't share with people mistakes dones in the past.
Is that more clear to you now?
Muslims over centuries have done things they shouldn't have. You cannot erase that information. For what? So that you can show the world how perfect muslims have been? You can't hide the stains of Islamic history. Islam doesn't need that from you. Its pristine and perfect on its own. However, its followers have not been, and there is no shame in admitting that mistakes were made in the past.
Hence, you should not censor history.
What a statement!!!!AmazingI agree ... A silly debate, but eventually good comes out of all debates, even ridiculous and silly ones.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
same way idol worshipper say we perceive god as this idol , it doesn't mean god look like this one make , other start worshipping and result obvious
I thought Muslims do not worship any man, including their prophet. So what is wrong if a picture is made?
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
I thought Muslims do not worship any man, including their prophet. So what is wrong if a picture is made?
we do not make pic of Hazoor PBUH because when ever we will next try to imagine Hazoor PBUH , we might think of this imaginary pic .
and second
many so called muslim do many think (sorry things) which even a hindu can't imagine , hindu will be seen as good person infront of him
so we say , what ever should do but don't try to bend islam to adopt his/her thinking as part of islam
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
OK - if somebody sees a picture of the prophet and starts from that time onwards that this is how he looked like, as long as the picture is not indecent, what is wrong? I am 100% sure that even without seeing any picture, almost everybody who thinks of him has associated some form to him....that is the human nature.
Also. can you take a look at the para that follows "and second" above? I don't understand what you are saying.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
OK - if somebody sees a picture of the prophet and starts from that time onwards that this is how he looked like, as long as the picture is not indecent, what is wrong? I am 100% sure that even without seeing any picture, almost everybody who thinks of him has associated some form to him....that is the human nature.
Also. can you take a look at the para that follows "and second" above? I don't understand what you are saying.
for first part
every one should have their own , no problem with that, but if all starting to single after few centuries that will become true picture
for second
it is things rather then think in my sentence sorry
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
pasting this here is academically silly , because they are not accepted in islamic history
Actually they are accepted in Islamic history. Where did you get this silly idea that they are not?
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
Actually they are accepted in Islamic history. Where did you get this silly idea that they are not?
a silly question by a person who didn't know anything about islam
no need to answer such a person
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
a silly question by a person who didn't know anything about islam
no need to answer such a person
No answer from an ignorant starting fitna. Expected.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
After trying to read through the grammatical trainwreck you call a post, I have very few items to respond to:
The pictures on wikipedia are not labelled in the sense that this is a true representation of the Prophet. Rather, most folks should know by the data entered there, that these were pictures made under different dynasties depicting how people perceived the Rasul. Two different things. No one is labelling anything, and certainly no one needs to walk away thinking they need to print out the picture and worship it.
The pictures are not necessarily accepted by orthodox muslims and orthodox muslim theology as PERMISSABLE, if that's what you meant. However, these pictures are printed in various textbooks and encyclopedias and art texts, and so therefore they are indeed a part of Islamic History, in the sense that they were made under muslim leadership. Many unIslamic things were done in Islamic history, and yet they are still part of Islamic History, much as Karbala is part of Islamic History. I certainly hope you don't think that Karbala incidents were in accordance with Islam. You can't erase Karbala. You cannot erase the Ummayids. You cannot erase genocide done by muslim dictatorships. You cannot erase crimes that took place in the Islamic empire. You cannot erase abuse towards women that happens in muslim countries. Worse things have happened than a painting of the Prophet being made, and we can't conveniently forget about them.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
i thought i wud never post on this thread again ... yet to seek something, i have got a question
there is no doubt that karbala cant be erased from Islamic history but atleast almost every muslim opposes karbala in a sence that what ever happened was wrong .. Cant we think same about the pictures they might be part of our history like karbala but rather them praising em shouldnt we try to oppose em ?
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
I don't see anyone praising the pictures, even from a craftmanship point of view. They're just there, to be referenced like any other historical recorded detail.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
Ok if u dont praise em how about oppoing em like we wud oppose anything bad happened in history ... Either u priase em or u oppose em ? rite
Or u just sit on the side mind your own bussiness and let people fight ?
I mean they r our hisotry art of muslim heritage i think its praising
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
I am out of it .. In my opnion it shldnt be allowed but i wont put fatwaas on em !!!
I have a question for meher alone ... since u started how about rather then just forcing everyone to think urway and oppose those pics .... u actually tell us y u oppose em ? and want others to oppose em ? I mean most of the things we just hear from our molvi's who call em haram and we just call em haram ... is that the case here ?
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
aqeel, again, you are mixing up two concepts. Its one thing to call a thing halaal or haraam. Its another to ban it from pages of history. You can say that what Hitler did to Jews was haraam. You cannot tear out every image of a dying Jewish individual from the pages of history books.
Signing this petition means you are asking wikipedia to remove the images. Instead, what one should do is get a wikipedia account and add an adendum to the encyclopedia entry that says something like "Despite images having been made of the Prophet in the past, making images of the Prophet is deemed impermissable according to muslims because of X reasons". That way, you're not taking knowledge away from people. You're just enriching it.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
forget about me ... Am not askin u what i shld do am just asking u what r ur believes .... So u r against the pictures and against signing the petition !!! Thats good for u ..... I love the way people talk knowlege here, Ali and Maviya fought 10,000 muslims were killed that was misunderstanding and u have confused me so much about ur thoughts that i dunno if u r against the pics or for em ...or probablly both !!!
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
I'm sorry that I've caused you so much distress. I am against this particular petition. I don't think anyone today should go about making pictures of the Prophet, either degrading him or glorifying him. I do not think historical paintings or drawings should be thrown away because they violate a religious belief, only for the sake of historical recordings.
Re: Picture of Hazoor PBUH on wikipedia
Soo its wrong if i make a pic today, but if i do still draw it then our kidds shld keep those pics save ?
that doesnt make sense to me ...