Physical Involvement

Lifestyle Relationships
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Re: Physical Involvement

I never said anything of the sort that non-disclosure is a 6th pillar of Islam. Those are your words. All I said was don’t twist things to suit your purpose…and that still stands. Why should a ruling change because “people” are not happy with it? What is this? A buffet? Can I also request you change our prayer timings and while you’re at it work on this whole zakat thing? I mean what’s up with that?

If you do a quick good search…islamic ruling on disclosure of past relationships:

Is It a Must to Disclose One’s Sinful Past to a Prospective Spouse? - Engagement - counsels - OnIslam.net

Must I tell my future husband about my shameful past? | IslamicAnswers.com: Islamic Advice (make sure you scroll all the way down for the references)

Abu Hurayra (Allah be pleased with him) reports that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace be upon him) said, All my Community will be excused except those who are blatant. And it is from blatancy for one to perform an act at night and to wake up and tell something that they did such-and-such, while Allah had concealed it for them. They slept under the cover of Allah, and they rended Allah’s covering from themselves in the morning. [Bukhari and Muslim]

Re: Would you lie to your potential partner about your sinful past if asked? [Archive] - Ummah.com - Muslim Forum

Keep scrolling down and you will find the same answers everywhere you go.

I was specifically told by our Muslim marriage counselor when I was getting married that it IS wrong to discuss past relationships with a future spouse (with reference at that time). So we did not.

Even though its tempting and you’re curious as hell in the beginning…it goes away and you’re glad your future isn’t tainted by the past in the end.

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If you’re doing it doesn’t mean everybody else is doing it.

The best answer to this question is, when you’d make marriage difficult the zina would be easy and that’s what exactly happening in Muslim communities in current times.

Most of the parents/people don’t realize the fact that after a certain age sex becomes a basic need like food or any other basic need.

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Looks like this is a Hadith. Hadiths aren’t final word of law for some but guidelines on how to be the best Muslim possible beyond the 5 MANDATORY pillars. Most people take what’s in Quran as mandatory word of law. I’m pretty sure no one is perfect enough to follow all Hadiths but sure us humans can pick and choose what’s most convenient for us. Anything in the Quran about this topic? Because lying and deceiving are explicitly prohibited in Quran AND Hadiths many times.

And everything in religion is there for a reason. Likely this Hadith was stated to prevent people from boasting about sins to prevent corruption of society. If someone keeps bragging about how amazing their experiences were with premarital sex, drugs, alcohol people are going to wonder “hmm maybe I should try it” thereby perpetuating sin. And the more you hear and see people commiting the sin the more people get desensitized to it. Instead of saying tauba tauba to physical involvement between a Pakistani guy and girl these days the response is “oh its so common now, not that big of a deal so many people are doing it.” See the impact and potential societal implications of openly discussing sinful experiences? This principle also applies for people who are truly repenting their sins.

Any other use of this principle is likely going against its intended purposes, especially if people are thinking it’s okay to hide and deceive future spouse to make onself feel better about themselves and paint a falsely positive picture of themselves. I personally don’t think it should be viewed as a get out of jail free pass for your past but thats how this Hadith is most likely going to be misused. The reality of human nature is that we as humans are often more ashamed of painting ourselves in a negative light to other people and our society than we are of shaming ourselves in the eyes of Allah. This is why even in our most Islamic societies we often are commiting sins secretly behind everyone’s back, chup chup ke. Whether its in Pakistan or Saudi, behind closed doors there is rampant prostitution and human trafficking, alcohol is flowing, unmarried men and women are being sexual with each other, men are raping women, mulwis sexually abusing children, theres infidelity, incest, and several other vices. It’s very difficult to know who is presenting themselves in a genuine way or not especially during the rishta prcoess because its all hidden from public view, we are more worried about others finding out and hurting our public image than truly repenting. Its the sinner who is proactively doing the concealing of his/her sins, but justifies it by saying Allah has concealed it for me. And using this Hadith for the former is WRONG. Just because something is permitted in our religion doesnt mean it’s acceptable in all of its applications. People must have a lot of faith and trust in humanity if they think this Hadith will be properly applied by our people and not misused.

And most of the posters in this dicussion are against what we consider misuse of this Hadith, not against Islam. Ill personally be telling my future wife about my sins if she asks regardless because for me that’s the morally right thing to do, I’d rather not lie or hide or deceive her and create the foundation of the relationship on a lie–often the truth come to light eventually anyways. But to each his own, everyone has their own interpretations of religion.

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My husband lived on his own for a good 4-5 yrs before our marriage. It would have been naive of me to believe he had never had a girlfriend or a fling.. He didn’t volunteer the info and didn’t need to.. I jokingly referred to it once or twice and that was it… I couldn’t care less about his past ..all i care about is our married life and our future.. His past girlfriends or whatever have no bearing on our life together. Unless there is chance one of them will go all crazy ex girlfriend, i don’t need/want to know about her

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Okay people…I am not sure why this is ruffling everyone’s feathers sooo much.

Its simple to understand…this is not deception nor is it lying. When it comes to prior relationships (its very important we understand this ONLY applies to prior relationships) it is discouraged to discuss them for obvious reasons. The past is the past and Allah swt is the only judge of all sins. Unless this past will affect your future, you have no reason nor obligation to disclose anything to anyone. That’s how it is. I am not sure how many times it has to be repeated that this only applies to prior relationships.

If you don’t like it…by all means do what you please. But please don’t twist things to make them look a way they’re not. Prior relationships and discussing them IS forbidden. If this Hadith was to your point, you’d never say another word. But since you don’t like it…you don’t want to believe it.

Its not my opinion…I am simply stating what I know. Do whatever you want, marry who you want, discuss what you want…mujhe kya?

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I don’t think there’s a need to know (unless there’s a chance you’ll be running into exes or something lol) but I wanted to regardless, just to get the bigger picture.. For me it’s a bit like knowing where your other half grew up or went to school or who his childhood friends were.. I like to know about his life, his experiences and what may have shaped him..

I know the Islamic stance is not to disclose, I just prefer to know.. and likewise I’ve never lied about my past when asked.. I personally think if you know someone specifically wants a partner who’s never been in any prior relationship and you choose to go ahead when you yourself have that’s wrong.. You don’t need to go into details but just walk away from that proposal (I think that might be the correct thing to do Islamically but I’m not 100% sure, I think politely declining without revealing the sin is what’s recommended for Muslims in that situation)..

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That is based on the opinion citing this Hadith,

Abu Hurayrah Radiyallahu Anhu reported: “The Messenger of Allaah said: “Every member of my nation will be forgiven, except those who expose their wrongdoings. An example of this is that of a man who commits a sin at night which Allaah then conceals, but, the next morning,** he goes and says (to people): ‘I committed such and such a sin last night’ - **while Allaah had kept it secret. During the night Allaah had concealed it, but in the morning he tore up the cover provided by Allaah Himself.” [Al-Bukhaari & Muslim]

It is obvious that the Hadith talks about not publicing boasting about one’s sins. It stops one from voluntarily disclosing/announcing their sins. There is no mention of lying about it/withholding the truth IF ASKED.

Secondly, there is no mention of ‘prior Relationships’ only. It talks about ‘Sin’ , it could by any Sin: theft, lying, stealing, defrauding people, faking your documents, backbiting and the whole nine yards. So where did you assume this **‘prior relationship’ **rule?

Thirdly, It is mentioned in the Quran **“Women impure are for men impure and men impure are for women impure; and women of purity are for men of purity and men of purity are for women of purity”.
**
Now how do you propose that this commandment in the **‘Quran’ **be carried out? Since, no two people would ever know about the past, so paving the way for impure men/women to marry pure men/women. Now, pure men and women have no way to adhere to this commandment if they can’t know about their prospective spouse.

I hope you have gone through the references, rather than just picking up on the Fatwa.

PS: Those making distinction between rape and fornication - saying that in one a person was hurt while the other is victimless- Just FYI, BOTH ARE SINS in Islam. Just because there are no laws against consensual sex in the west doesn’t mean it is not a punishable sin in islam. I hope people remember that it is CRIME islamically, punishable by lashes/stoning carried out by the court.

PS2: You are requested to read it calmly and respond.

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Can you show any hadith or prove via Qur’anic reference that Allah swt wants and requires us to disclose prior relationships to a marriage proposal? That would actually be more relevant than any further discussion on the topic.
What would the point be in responding now?

My opinion on the matter still stands…you have yours and I have given ample reasons for mine.

Khallas.

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I haven’t read the whole thread…just have a question on the above quoted piece…

how is the verse mentioned a “commandment”?
and is the purity and impurity referring to virginity?

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^ I had the same questions; but my participation in this thread has ran its course. If we are gonna go down this road, maybe we can split this thread here and move to Religious section.

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Nope. Just good character and some level of piety.

But just to explain a little further, it cannot possibly refer to virginity as all Prophet Muahammad’s pbuh wives (apart from one) were either widowed and divorcees, so clearly not virgins yet pious/pure enough to be the wives of a man who is called ‘mercy to all Worlds’ in Quran, and the most perfect human being ever created. So clearly there’s a message.

You have to remember that unlike Christianity, Islam places no special holy emphasis on virginity. If that was the case, divorce would not have been so easy nor widowed and divorced women would be encouraged to re-marry. But that is not to say that extra martial sex is not strictly prohibited in Islam.

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OH MY GOD!!!

You were the one who was saying it is completely forbidden to disclose such things.Now, you flip 180 degrees to demanding specific reference which specifically requires it?. First make up your mind what sort of reasoning are you going to use - prohibition of an act or specific instruction to the contrary?

But just as general principal - anything which is not prohibited is allowed. Simple.

and no, you have not given ample reasons besides repeating one statement over and over again - now that i asked you a question, you have no ample response.

PS: Whats with the ‘khallas’, I feel like I am talking to Anil Kapoor :eek:

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:hehe: It is apparent just on the face of it -if one reads it with unbiased mind.

But just to answer your question: I am quoting the very first two ayat’s of the Surah from Quran in which the above mentioned verse (verse 26) is mentioned.

You question number 2 is answered by above quote and statement of Jolie above.

I now request you to share your viewpoint in light of the above references.

You questions are answered above. And why do you want to split it now that some facts are being brought forward regarding ‘islamicness’ of the views being propagated for last several pages? You didn’t suggest to move it to religious section when one poster was repeatedly saying its due to islamic reasons that this needs to be withheld.

I just posted brief factual references here to counter a misleading interpretation (in my view) being perpetuated.

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It IS forbidden. But regardless…I gave you my reasoning when you asked. I gave you Hadith…and there’s nothing from your end. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Now I am asking you for yours…where can you show me that its forbidden to hide prior relationships?

Don’t just shoot arrows in the dark. No one said you had to agree with everything. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

The Anil Kapoor reference was just blah…so blah this sentence almost didn’t make it into this post.

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Oh yea. Quoting from the Quran is ‘nothing/zilch and shooting arrows in the dark’ :hehe:

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So sue me!

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its common, quiet common in college/universities when i was in. suppose to be go up in all those years.

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Relevant verses please. Hoping that gets lost in your paragraphs of writing is not a good enough response.

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Read this on facebook and thought I would share it here, don’t know who said it and I just read but kinda applied here:

“Committing sin is one kinda sin, justifying your sin is different kind altogether”

A lot of my christian friends also discuss their past and always ask their future significant other about it. It really depends on your values. I find it disgusting to lie about such a significant matter. I think people have a right to ask this question and they should. It is your choice to answer it or not but your answer should and needs to be honest.
Again this is an important question in rishta hunting not only for desis but also nondesis that I know.