Peshawar Nights

Salaam everyone

While surfing on the net a few months back, I ran on this site, i thought it will be a good one to share with you all.

http://al-islam.org/peshawar/toc.html

Its about a debate between shia’s and sunni’s Aalims, which was held in Peshawar, and at the end of the debate, the sunni ulma also converted to shia. I don’t want to hurt anyone beliefs or try to be mean, but i just think its a good one to share with you all. Personally i believe that both the sects believe on same God, pray for the same God, believe is the same Quran and Prophet. but thre are some conflicts on other believes and ways. I think we should know about the different beliefs we all have, how does the conflict started and where does it come from. This site have a lot of debate on most of these differences, by the people of both the sects, I haven’t finished reading the book, nor am I a alim myself, but I think its something you people might be interested in reading too, so it can help you all to know, which sect you can agree on.

Muslim,

Thanks for showing the site–and i do NOT want to get into an argument on this as it is generally futile arguing with Rafidis (Shias)–but this book is very devious and if one is not clear on the fundamental beliefs of Sunni Islam, it will cause one to fall into the trap which the Shias have set. (i.e. cursing the Blessed Sahaba (except for a handful) under the false pretext of
love of the Blessed Ahle Bayt.) It is enough to know that Sunnis love all the Sahaba and All the Ahle Bayt. Anyway, you finish reading this book and when you have finished it then read this book as well which is its refutation by Sunnis: http://www.hizmetbooks.org/Documents_of_the_Right_Word/

(or go to www.hizmetbooks.org and select the book Documents of the right word by clicking on it). ALL PEOPLE MUST READ THIS GREAT BOOK. You can download the whole book online–about 500 pages.]

This is fair…

May Allah protect us from all such deviations and kufr. Amin. Bi Jaahi Sayyid Al Anbiya Wal Mursaleen.
**
IMPORTANT NOTE:
ps I am NOT getting into a debate on this issue of shias. i have seen in the past that such debates are pointless as we do not even share the basics of the deen with them. the ruling of the Ahle Sunnah scholars on them is clear in all 4 schools of thought: at best they are heretics and the majority of them are kaafirs. PLEASE this is NOT meant to offend any shias out there–I am just telling you my beliefs based on the rulings of all orthodox sunni classical scholars. i AM not GOING to change and nor am i trying to change your views. This is just meant for information only for readers. To me my religion, to you yours. **

This is a better site: http://al-islam.org/guided/
This book is authored by Mohammed Tijani Smaoui a Sunni who converted to Shiaism. The suprising thing is that in this book the author makes refrences to Sunni hadith books such as Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. The ironic thing is while researching through Sunni hadith books, the author became a Shia.
Here’s an excerpt from his book:
But the fact is that whenever a person mentions the virtues of Ali ibn Abi Talib, and admits to the mistakes that were committed by the famous Companions, we say that he has become a Shiite. And if you say in front of them, when you mention the Prophet, “May Allah bless him and his Family” or say, “Ali, may Allah’s peace be upon him” then you are branded a Shiite. According to that premise, one day, during a debate, I asked one of our scholars, “What do you think of al-Bukhari?” He said, “He is one of the leading authorities in Hadith (the Prophetic tradition) and we consider his book to be the most correct book after the Book of Allah, as all our scholars agree.” I said to him, “He is a Shiite.” He laughed and said, “God forbid that Imam al-Bukhari be a Shiite.” I said, “Did you not say that whoever says Ali, may Allah’s peace be upon him, is Shiite?” He answered, “Yes.” Then I showed him and those who were with him al-Bukhari’s book, and in many places when Ali’s name appears, he put “May Allah’s peace be upon him” as well as the names of Fatimah and al-Husayn. The man did not know what to say. [42]

[42]
Sahih, Bukhari, vol 1 p 127, 130, vol 2 p 126, 205

Dear Asif

Salaam

With due respect my friend, You don’t have the right to call anybody kafir. Shia’s pray for the same God, You do, they read the same Quran, you do, If you don’t agree with the way they do, its fine stick with what you believe in. Its the God who is gonna judge who is Kaafir and who is not. You don’t have the right to call other worshipors of God Kaafir, what if they have the same to say about your beliefs and I don’t think arguing about the religon is something futile. You never know where you learn something that you didn’t know about, which might help you to change your beliefs, debating is the best way to learn, you get to learn other peoples views, which you didn’t know and I don’t think Shiaism is something you may words as “(cursing the Blessed Sahaba (except for a handful)under the false pretext of love of the Blessed Ahle Bayt”. You have a real misconception here my friend, You sure do need to explore a lot Mr.
In my opinion its the way to live your life in an Islamic way Holy Prophet said, with the guidance of the 12 Imams. How can you know that, which of the sahaba is blessed, but if you look in the history, Holy Prophet said at Gandeer-e-khum
Un kun tum Maula
Fa haza Aliun Maula
which means whoever the Prophet is Maula, Hazrat Ali is his Maula too.
This is one of the incident, where he gave Imamat to Hazrat Ali, infact the site 2PAK wrote have lots of good hadith of prophets about Hazrat Ali http://al-islam.org/guided/
, but i never found any incident that says Abu Baker should be the Khalifa after him or if he is a blessed Khalifa , I think if there is something you are not capable of debating on, you shouldn’t take is as a trap set for you to fall in, but should see it as a light of guidance, or as an idication that you need to learn some more of what your beliefs are, try to learn to face the truth my friend. In this book shia’s have backed up that debate from hadith and lots of books.

I think friends, its something worth to have a look at. Don’t just listen what other peoples have to say, but read yourself and see if your conciense agrees with what these things have to say, because I think the purpose of this life is to do good deeds and live our lives in Islamic way as Prescribed by Almighty and we should be sure if what we believe is something correct. I think we should at least take out 10minutes everyday of our life to explore more about our beliefs.

[This message has been edited by Muslim (edited December 17, 1999).]

This is a page that really caught my eye:
FATIMA TOLD ABU BAKR AND UMAR THAT
SHE CURSED THEM BOTH IN EVERY PRAYER

After narrating this affair in detail, Abu Muhammad Abdullah Bin Qutayba says that Ali did not swear allegiance and returned home. Later Abu Bakr and Umar went to Fatima's house to placate her and to seek her pardon. She said: "Allah be my witness that you two have offended me. In every prayer I curse you and will continue cursing you until I see my father and complain against you."

(7) Ahmad Bin Abdu'l-Aziz is one of your ulema. Ibn Abi'l-Hadid writes about him in the following words: "He was a man of learning, a traditionist, a great literary figure." He writes in his Kitab-e-Saqifa and Ibn Abi'l-Hadid Mu'tazali also quotes from him in his Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume I, page 9, on the authority of Abi'l-Aswad, who said: "A group of the companions and prominent Muhajirin expressed their indignation at Abu Bakr's caliphate and asked why they were not consulted. Also Ali and Zubair expressed their anger, refused to swear allegiance, and retired to Fatima's house. Fatima cried aloud and made solemn entreaties, but to no effect. They took away Ali's and Zubair's swords and hurled them against the wall, breaking them. Then they dragged them to the mosque to force them to swear allegiance."

(8) Jauhari reports from Salma Bin Abdu'r-Rahman that when Abu Bakr heard that Ali, Zubair, and a party of the Bani Hashim were assembled in Fatima's house, he sent Umar for them. Umar went to the door of Fatima's house and shouted, "Come out, otherwise, I swear I will set your house on fire!"

(9) Jauhari, according to Ibn Abi'l-Hadid in his Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume II, page 19, narrates on the authority of Sha'bi: "When Abu Bakr heard about the gathering of the Bani Hashim in Ali's house, he said to Umar: 'Both you and Khalid go and bring Ali and Zubair to me so that they can take the oath of allegiance.' So Umar entered Fatima's house and Khalid stayed outside. Umar said to Zubair 'What is this sword?' He replied, 'I have acquired it for allegiance to Ali.'

Umar snatched the sword and hurled it at the stone inside the house and broke it. Then he brought him out to Khalid. He came back into the house, where there were many people, including Miqdad, and all the Bani Hashim. Addressing Ali, he said: 'Get up! I'm taking you to Abu Bakr. You must pay allegiance to him.'

Ali refused. Umar dragged him to Khalid. Khalid and Umar forced him along the road which was packed to capacity with men who witnessed this scene. When Fatima saw Umar's behavior, she, along with many women of the Bani Hashim (who had come to console her), came out. They were lamenting and wailing with high-pitched cries. Fatima went to the mosque where she said to Abu Bakr: 'How soon have you sacked the Ahle Bait of the Prophet of Allah. I swear by Allah, I will not talk with Umar until I see Allah.' Fatima showed her extreme disapproval of Abu Bakr and did not speak to him for the rest of her life." (See Sahih Bukhari, Part V and VII).

(10) Abu Walid Muhibu'd-Din Muhammad Bin Muhammad Bin Ash-Shahna Al-Hanafi (died 815 A.H.), one of your leading ulema writes in his Rauzatu'l-Manazir Fi Khabaru'l-Awa'il wa'l-Awakhir, in connection with the Saqifa affair: "Umar came to Ali's house prepared to set it on fire with all its inmates. Umar said: 'Enter into what the community has entered.'"

(11) Tabari, in his Ta'rikh Volume II, page 443, reports from Ziyad Bin Kalbi that "Talha, Zubair, and some of the Muhajirin were at Ali's house. Umar Bin Khattab went there and demanded that they come out. If they did not, he said, he would set the house on fire."

(12) Ibn Shahna, in Hashiyya-e-Kamil of Ibn Athir, Volume XI, page 112, writes in connection with the Saqifa that: "Some of the Prophet's companions, and the Bani Hashim, Zubair, Atba Bin Abi Lahab, Khalid Bin Sa'id Bin As, Miqdad Bin Aswad Kindi, Salman Farsi, Abu Dharr Ghifari, Ammar Bin Yasir, Bara'a Bin Azib, and Ubai Bin Ka'b refused to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr. They assembled in Ali's house. Umar Bin Khattab went there intending to burn down the house. Fatima protested to him. Umar said: 'Enter where all others have entered.'"

These are but a sample of the many historical facts recorded by your own historians. This affair was so commonly known that the poets of old mentioned it. One of your poets, Hafiz Ibrahim of Egypt, says in a poem in praise of Umar: "No other person but Abu Hafsa (father of Umar) could have the courage of addressing the chief of the Adnan Clan (Ali) and his comrades, saying: 'If you fail to pay allegiance, I will set your house on fire and will not leave any inmate of the house alive, even Fatima herself.'"

Hafiz: These narrations show only that they brought torches to frighten and disperse the opponents of the caliphate. It is a concocted Shia version to say that Ali's house was set on fire, and that Fatima miscarried as a result.

NARRATIONS ABOUT FATIMA'S MISCARRIAGE

Well-Wisher: You should read Kitab-e-Isbatu'l-Wasiyya, compiled by Abi'l-Hasan Ali Bin Husain Mas'udi, author of Muruju'dh-Dhahab. He wrote in great detail about the events of that day: "They surrounded Ali and burned the door of his house. They dragged him out of the house and pressed the best of the women, Fatima, between the door and the wall so forcefully that Muhsin, her unborn son, died of miscarriage." The Shias have not concocted these things. What occurred has been preserved in the pages of history. The miscarriage is a fact.

You may also refer to Sharhe Nahju'l-Balagha, Volume III, page 351. Ibn Abi'l-Hadid wrote that he told his teacher, Abu Ja'far Naqib, that when the Prophet was told that Hubbar Bin Aswad had attacked his daughter Zainab's litter with a lance, because of which Zainab suffered a miscarriage, the Prophet allowed him to be put to death. Abu Ja'far said: 'Had the Prophet of Allah been alive, he would have surely ordered the death penalty for him also who had frightened Fatima so much that her child, Muhsin, died in miscarriage.'

Hafiz: I don't understand what useful purpose it serves to narrate such stories. This kind of thing leads to mutual discord.

Well-Wisher: You object to my relating these facts. But I do so to reject the attacks of malicious authors who mislead our uninformed brothers, calling Shias infidels and saying that these facts were the fabrications of the Shias. We do not say anything about Ali beyond what the Prophet said about him. We told you on previous nights that we regard Ali as a devoted servant of Allah, a divinely appointed vicegerent and successor to the Prophet. You claim that it is of no use to relate these facts. If you wouldn't bring up these points, we would not discuss them. If you hadn't said tonight that these are Shia beliefs with no substance to them, I would not have been obliged to tell the audience that these are the beliefs of unbiased Sunni ulema.

Nawab: Respected Sir, we believe that Husain, the martyr, was rightly guided and that he was murdered unjustly by the officers of the Bani Umayya. But there are some people, particularly among our young people, who say that the Battle of Karbala was strictly a military, and not a religious, event. It is said that Husain Bin Ali proceeded to Kufa in quest of power, and it is the duty of every government to curb such dangers. Accordingly, Yazid resisted this threat. They requested the revered Imam to pay unconditional allegiance to Caliph Yazid, to whom obedience was obligatory. They wanted him to go to Syria to live there with the Caliph honorably or to go back to his native place. But he did not follow their advice, and consequently he was killed. They conclude that any mourning for such a worldly man, who was killed because of his love of power, is not only meaningless, but is an innovation. Do you have a reply to this point? How do you disprove the idea that the Battle of Karbala was not the culmination of a political struggle?

IMAM HUSAIN WAS NEVER
DESIROUS OF POLITICAL POWER

Well-Wisher: Every good or bad action is based on our knowledge of Allah. The objectors should first recognize Allah, and then they should acknowledge the divine book, the Qur'an. From that acknowledgement it follows that we recognize that whatever is in that book is praise. Anyone who believes that Husain Ibn Ali was motivated by worldly goals denies the truth of the Holy Qur'an. Allah Almighty has given evidence of Husain's purity in the Holy Qur'an. He says: "Allah desires only to keep away uncleanness from you, O people of the house! And to purify you with a thorough purifying." (33:33)

Most of your ulema, like Muslim, Tirmidhi Tha'labi, Sijistani, Abu Nu'aim Isfahani, Abu Bakr Shirazi, Suyuti, Hamwaini, Ahmad Bin Hanbal, Zamakhshari, Baidhawi, Ibn Athir, and others have held that this verse was revealed in praise of the holy five, the Ahle Bait (people of the House): Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain. This verse is the greatest proof for the infallibility and purity of these holy people. The greatest impurity is love for worldly power. There are many hadith from the Prophet and the Imams condemning aspiration for worldly power and the fulfillment of our carnal desires. The Prophet said, "Love and friendship with the world is the root of all evil." Abu Abdullah Husain had no love for worldly power. He certainly did not risk his life and the lives of his family in order to attain transitory rule in this world.

If Imam Husain's stand against Yazid were merely for worldly power, the Prophet would not have ordered people to help him. Your own ulema confirm this point. Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda from the histories of Bukhari, Baghawi, and Ibnu's-Sikkin from Zakha'iru'l-Uqba of Imamu'l-Haram Shafi'i, and Sirat-e-Mulla narrate from Anas Bin Harith Bin Bayya, who said that he heard the Holy Prophet say: "Verily, my son Husain will be killed on the soil of Karbala. Every one of you who is present at that time must help him."

The report continues: "Anas Bin Harith reached Karbala and, in obedience to the command of the Prophet, was martyred along with Imam Husain." It follows, therefore, that at Karbala Imam Husain stood for the cause of truth and not for love of this world. Imam Husain's undertaking the journey with a small group, including his women and small children, is another indication that he left his home not for the purpose of gaining rule. If that had been his intention, he would have gone to Yemen, where he had widespread support. Yemen would have been the logical base for launching military operations. In fact his friends repeatedly encouraged him to go to Yemen, but they were not aware of his purpose. But Imam Husain knew that there was no means of attaining apparent success. His journey, begun with 84 people, including women and children, aimed at a basic good. The holy tree - la ilaha ill'allah (there is no god except Allah) - was grown by his grandfather, nourished with his blood and the blood of the martyrs of Badr, Uhud, and Hunain. The tree was entrusted to an excellent gardener, Ali Bin Abu Talib, who was held back by threats of murder and arson. The result was that the spring of Tawhid (oneness of Allah) and prophethood had taken on an autumnal change. Gradually the administration of the garden fell into the hands of the malicious Bani Umayya.

Since the caliphate of Uthman Bin Affan, the Bani Umayya controlled the administration of the empire. Abu Sufyan, old and blind, but his appetite for power as keen as ever, cried out to the Umayyad Court: "O Bani Umayya! Keep the caliphate in your own family. Paradise and hell are myths. O Bani Umayya! Take hold of the caliphate like a ball. I swear that by which I swear, that I always wished such rule for you. Take care of it so that your descendants may be its heirs."

These unbelievers ejected the rightful gardeners from the garden. The life-water was stopped and the holy tree shrivelled until the reign of Yazid, when it appeared to be destined to die. Imam Husain undertook the journey to Karbala to water the garden of Prophethood and to strengthen the holy tree of la ilaha ill'Allah. Some people ask why Imam Husain did not raise the flag of opposition in Medina. They do not understand that if he had remained in Medina, his objective would have remained unclear. Imam Husain went to Mecca in the month of Rajab and addressed thousands of people, telling them that Yazid was uprooting the tree of tawhid. He said that Yazid, who claimed to be the Caliph

of the Muslims, was destroying the foundation of Islam. Addicted to wine and gambling, Yazid amused himself with dogs and monkeys. Imam Husain considered the sacrifice of his life necessary for the preservation of Islam.

IMAM HUSAIN REFUSED ADVICE
TO ABANDON HIS MISSION

Imam Husain's friends and relatives tried to dissuade him from going to Kufa, saying that the Kufans who had asked him to come were notoriously unreliable. Many people flocked to the Bani Umayya and received money and political favors in return for their support. Therefore, according to many of his supporters, Imam Husain had no chance to subdue them. They asked him to abandon the journey. They urged him to go to Yemen where he had many followers, and where he could live in peace. But Husain could not explain the reality of his situation. However, he satisfied each of them with a brief reply. He told close companions and relatives, like his brother, Muhammad Bin Hanafiyya: "You are saying the correct thing. I also know that I shall not achieve any apparent domination, but I am not going for worldly conquest. I am going in order to be killed. I wish that through the strength of my suffering tyranny, I may root out the very foundation of oppression and cruelty. I saw my grandfather, the Prophet, in a dream telling me: 'Make a journey to Iraq. Allah Almighty wants to see you murdered.'"

Muhammad Bin Hanifiyya and Ibn Abbas said: "If this is so, why are you taking women with you?" He replied: "My grandfather said that Allah wants to see them captives. So, according to the command of the Holy Prophet, I am taking them with me." The captivity of the women would be the conclusive part of his martyrdom. They would demonstrate to the world the Umayyad cruelty to the Prophet's descendants. Bibi Zainab, the daughter of Ali and Fatima, made an eloquent protest in Yazid's crowded court, where hundreds of people, including the nobility, the great men of the Bani Umayya, and foreign ambassadors celebrated their victory. The fourth Imam, Zainu'l-Abidin Ali Ibn Husain, also made an eloquent appeal for justice from the pulpit of the Umayyad mosque, in Yazid's presence. After extolling the merits and attributes of Allah, Zainu'l-Abidin said: "O people! We, the descendants of Muhammad, have been endowed by Allah with six qualities and have been made superior to the whole creation by being granted seven virtues. We have been given knowledge, forbearance, valor, beautiful appearance, eloquence, bravery, and are loved by the believers. We are superior to every man in that the Prophet Muhammad is from us; the Siddiq Ali Bin Abu Talib is from us; Ja'far-e-Tayyar is from us; Hamza is from us, two grandsons of the Prophet, Hasan and Husain, are from us; and the Mahdi (the guided one) of this People (Imam-e-Hujjat Bin Hasan) is from us. One who does not know me should know about my family and family status; I am the son of the most exalted and virtuous Prophet of Allah, Muhammad Mustafa!"

Then from the same pulpit from which Mu'awiya and Yazid had cursed Ali, the Imam praised his illustrious grandfather, Ali, before Yazid and the chiefs of the Bani Umayyad. Many Syrians had never before heard Ali's qualities and virtues. The Imam said: "I am the son of the man who fought in the presence of the holy Prophet; who fought the infidels at Badr and Hunain; who never for a moment lost faith in Allah. I am the son of the most pious of the believers, the heir of the prophets, the slayer of the unbelievers, the ruler of the Muslims, the grace of the worshipers, the crown of those who weep in awe of Allah, the most patient of the patient, the best of the performers of prayer. I am the son of the man who was helped by Gabriel and Michael. I am the son of the man who was the protector of the honor of the Muslims and the slayer of the disbelievers. I am the son of the man who fought holy war against the enemy, who was the pride of the Quraish, the foremost of those who accepted the message of Allah and His Prophet, the first of those who embraced Islam, the tongue of the wisdom of Allah, the helper of the religion of Allah, the guardian of the commandments of Allah, the garden of Allah's wisdom, the repository of His knowledge. I am the son of the chief of the patient ones, the breaker of barriers, whose heart was more steadfast, whose resolution more firm, whose disposition more steady than anyone's. He was a fierce lion on the battlefield, who cut down the enemy with his sword and scattered them as a violent storm scatters straw. He was the bravest among the people of the Hijaz, the most valiant among the Iraqis, the purest Muslim, he who swore allegiance at Aqaba, the hero of Badr and Hunain, the courageous man on the occasion of allegiance under the tree, the unique sacrificer during the Holy Prophet's migration, the chief of the Arab world, the guardian of the Holy Ka'ba, the father of two grandsons of the Holy Prophet. These are the virtues of my grandfather, Ali Bin Abu Talib. I am also the son of Khadija-e-Kubra; I am the son of Fatima Zahra; I am the son of one who was murdered by a blow to the back of the neck; I am the son of one who left this world thirsty; I am the son of one who was deprived of water while water was allowed to the rest of creation. I am the son of one whose body was neither bathed nor shrouded; I am the son of one whose sacred head was raised on the point of the sword; I am the son of one whose women were affronted on the soil of Karbala and taken captive. I am the son of one whose women were brought to Syria as captives." Then the holy Imam wept with a loud cry, and continued: "I am.... I am...." that is, he went on narrating the virtues of his forefathers and the victimization of his holy father and the Ahle Bait. As a result of his address, people wept. After the martyrdom of Imam Husain, the first majlis (assembly for mourning) for the brutal sufferings of Imam Husain was held in this central mosque of the Umayyads. Imam Zainu'l-Abidin, after narrating Ali's virtues in the presence of the enemies, gave such a moving account of the sufferings of his revered father that agonized weeping rose from the Syrians in the presence of Yazid. He became frightened and left the mosque.

It was from this mosque, due to the Imam's address, that people rose against Yazid. Because of popular outcry, Yazid was forced to curse Ubaidullah Bin Marjana for his vicious deed. Eventually, the castle of the Bani Umayya's tyranny was destroyed. Today we do not find in all of Syria a single tomb of the Bani Umayya.

To return to your question, Imam Husain frequently foretold his martyrdom. He once spoke in Mecca, on Tarwia day (8th day of Dhu'l-Hijja, 60 A.H.), saying: "Death is attached to every member of the progeny of Adam as a necklace is attached to a young woman. I am as eager to meet my ancestors as Jacob was to meet Joseph. The place where I shall fall has already been selected for me, and I must go to that place. I see wild leopards killing me, tearing apart my body, between Nawawi's and Karbala."

Imam Husain knew that he would not reach Kufa, the capital of Syria. He knew that he would be killed by men who were like ferocious beasts, cutting his body to pieces. He undertook the journey for the purpose of martyrdom and not for political reasons. Along the way he told people of his impending death. He told his companions and relatives that one instance was sufficient to prove the worthlessness of this world. He said that after the beheading of the Prophet John, the head was presented to an adulteress. He said that his own head would soon be taken to the drunkard, Yazid.

Consider the matter for a moment. Hurr Bin Yazid Riyahi with a cavalry of 1,000 soldiers obstructed Husain's way. Kufa was only thirty miles away. Hur had been appointed by Ubaidullah Ibn Ziyad to detain Imam Husain. Hur would neither let him proceed to Kufa, nor leave his company without further orders. Why did the Imam surrender himself to Hur? If Husain had sought political power, he certainly would never have been stopped by Hur, who had not more than 1,000 soldiers. The Imam had 1,300 soldiers. Having defeated them, the Imam could have reached Kufa, where he had widespread support. From there, being reinforced, he could have confronted the enemy and gained domination. But he accepted Hur's order, stopped there in the desert surrounded by the enemy. After four days enemy reinforcements arrived there, and the Prophet's son was forced to endure cruel suffering.

The best evidence in support of my view is the Imam's address on the night before The Day of Ashura. Until that night 1,300 soldiers were ready to fight for him. Husain gathered the people together and told them: "Those who have come here for worldly gain should know that tomorrow whoever remains on this soil will be killed. The enemy is after me alone; I lift the binding force of allegiance from your necks. It is night, and you can depart in the darkness." Many accepted his proposal and departed. Only 42 people remained, 18 Bani Hashim and 24 companions. After midnight, 30 enemy soldiers moved toward the Imam's camp for a night attack, but when they heard Husain reciting the Holy Qur'an, they were filled with emotion and joined the Imam. These were the 72 people who sacrificed their lives on the Day of Ashura. Most of them were pious people, and many were reciters of the Holy Qur'an.

Husain's noble sacrifices are acknowledged today by friend and foe alike. Even those alien to our religion are impressed by his heroism. In the French Da'iratu'l-Ma'arif, there is a lengthy article entitled "Three Martyrs" written by a learned British woman. Her theme is that in all of history there have been three martyrs who, by sacrificing their lives, have been most influential in advancing the cause of truth. The first was Socrates, and the second was Jesus (the writer was a Christian). We Muslims, of course, believe that Jesus was not crucified. The Holy Qur'an clearly says: "And they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Jesus) and most surely those who differ therein are only in doubt about it. They have no knowledge concerning it, but only follow conjecture. They did not kill him for certain. Nay! Allah took him up to Himself." (4:157-158)

The third martyr she writes, was Husain, the grandson of Muhammad. She writes: "When we take stock of historical events and assess the circumstances under which these three persons offered their lives, we acknowledge that the sacrifices of Husain excelled those two. The fact was that Socrates and Christ offered only their own lives for sacrifice in the way of God, but Husain left his home for a distant desert land to be surrounded by the enemy. He and his entire family were martyred for the cause of truth. He sent his friends and relations to confront the enemy and to sacrifice their lives for the religion of Allah. This was in fact harder than giving up his own life."

The most glaring example of the tyranny suffered by Husain was the brutal murder of his six-month old son. He brought the baby in his hands asking for water for him (which was in abundance), but the ruthless enemy, instead of giving him water, killed the child with an arrow. The enemy's barbarism proves that Imam Husain was a victim of tyranny. His incredible forbearance completely ruined the power of the Bani Umayya and condemned them before the world. It was due to his, and his respected Ahle Bait's, sacrifices that the religion of Muhammad received new life.

Nawab SAHIB: We are really much indebted to you. We have been very impressed by your explanation of the facts concerning Imam Husain. Until now, we have followed other people and have been deprived of the blessings of ziarat (pilgrimage to the holy tomb of the Imam). We were told that to visit Imam Husain's shrine was bidat "innovation." Of course, what a good innovation it is, since it inspires man and helps him understand the truth about the descendants of the Prophet.

REAL MEANING OF BIDAT (INNOVATION))

Well-Wisher: The word "bidat," "innovation," has its origin in the sect of the Sunni ulema and of the Nasibis and Kharijis, who were confirmed enemies of Ali. They have called Ziarat "innovation" without considering the fact that bidat refers to something concerning the Prophet or his Ahle Bait, which has not been enjoined by Allah. However, concerning the question of visiting Husain's tomb, there are many hadith in the books of your own ulema. I confine myself to one famous hadith recorded in all books of maqatil and collections of hadith.

"One day the Prophet was in A'yesha's apartment when Husain came in. The Prophet took him in his arms, kissed him and smelt him. A'yesha asked: 'May my father's and mother's lives be sacrificed to you! How much you love Husain!' The Prophet said, 'Don't you know that this child is a part of my liver and my flower?' After that the Prophet began to weep. A'yesha asked the cause of his weeping. The Prophet replied that he kissed the places where the Bani Umayya would wound Husain. A'yesha asked if they would kill him. He said, 'Yes, he will be murdered. They will never have my support (in the hereafter). Blessed is he who goes on a pilgrimage to his tomb after his martyrdom.' A'yesha asked the Prophet what would be the reward for the pilgrim. The Prophet said, 'It will be equal to one Hajj of mine.' A'yesha said, 'One Hajj of yours!' He said, 'Nay, two,' When A'yesha again expressed astonishment, he said 'Nay, four Hajj.' The more astonished she became the higher was the reward, until at last he said, 'A'yesha! If a person goes on a pilgrimage to Husain's tomb, Allah will give him the reward equivalent to 90 Hajj and 90 Umra performed by me.' Then A'yesha fell silent."

Now I ask you, is such a pilgrimage an innovation?

EFFECTS OF VISITING SHRINES
OF THE HOLY IMAMS

There are other benefits to be gained from visiting the tombs of the Imams. The inner precincts of the shrine, called the haram, remain open for visitors day and night. The haram and the mosques near it are usually found packed to capacity with pilgrims and worshipers. Those accustomed to offering no more than the obligatory prayers often make special devotional efforts while visiting holy shrines. They invoke Allah sincerely and recite the Qur'an. Is such devotion an innovation?

Nawab: Of course we have no one to blame but ourselves if we have not examined these matters more closely. A few years ago I went to Baghdad to visit the tombs of Imam A'zam Abu Hanifa and Abdu'l-Qadir Jilani. One day I went to visit nearby Kazimain (the burial place of the seventh Imam, Musa Ibn Ja'far Al-Kazim and the ninth Imam, Muhammad Ibn Ali At-Taqi). When I returned, my companions were harsh in their criticism of me. I'm surprised that a visit to the tombs of Imam A'zam in Mu'azam, Sheikh Abdu'l-Qadir in Baghdad, of Khwaja Nizamu'd-Din in India, of Sheikh Akbar Muhyi'd-din Ibn Arabi in Egypt may be considered worth rewarding. Every year many people from among the Sunnis visit these places although the Prophet never recommended it. How can it be that a visit to the tomb of the great martyr, the grandson of the Prophet, which the Prophet recommended, be considered bidat? I firmly resolve that, Allah willing, I will go this year to visit the tomb of the beloved grandson of the Prophet, Husain. I will ask Allah to forgive me for my past faults.

ps. that was a pretty weak refutation.

Has there been an instance in which after a debate between sunn ulema and shia, the shia converted to sunnism and sunni converted to shia?

Salaam Mr. ZZ
http://al-islam.org/peshawar/toc.html

 Well my friend, I think this is all what this website is all about, a debate after which sunni ulema converted to shia. 

Well you pointed out somethings really interesting Mr.2pak. I donno if its right to call those shabas, who after the death of Holy Prophet hurted so much to his beloved daughter and threatened to burn her’s house, because they do not agree with them.
Its sure is not the islamic way. Holy Prophet didnot spread Islam on the point of sword, instead he made other people accept it by trying to convince them, by his good character and khutbas, but i don’t think there is any instance where he threatened someone to read kalma or die, Its the Almighty, who is gonna reward people for their good deeds and punish the bad, Holy Propeht P.B.U.H told us what is good and what is bad, and left it on us people, if we want tp be muslims. I am not sure if to call these shabas as blessed one’s, who threatens to burn other muslims, because they don’t agree with them, Quran doesn’t even ask us to kill someone because he is Kafir and we are muslims

[This message has been edited by Muslim (edited December 19, 1999).]

Sorry to say but this debate is all deviatory garbage. Never have i ever seen such concocted stuff, regarding Islamic history, or regarding such "debates". As for conversion to shiasm of a sunni, i wouldnt be surprised, cause hey, muslims (sunnis) have even in some cases, converted to mirzaism and ismailism.
Just take care of your own faith, and let Allah be the judge on the final day. It doesnt serve us any good for these so called ulemas, or youngsters like people on this forum, to indulge in such debates where for the most part, they spend time cursing the other out rather than show any positive point of their own. Religion is not meant for such hapless debates. Its meant for constructive questions and answers that we are all able to deal with. Dont make it a political issue.

Salaam Akif brother

 I kinda disagree with you on that, debating over the religon is not deviatory garbage. Islam would have never come to existance if people would have ignored the Prophet and thought the message of Holy Prophet is Nauzobillah garbage, It came in existance because people listened to what he said and they accepted Islam because what Holy Prophet said did made sense to them. I think the reason why Almighty gifted us with life,is to see what kinda person we are, in other words to see if we diserve to live in heaven or hell and in order to lead a successive live, religon plays an important role, and so we should be sure of what we believe in, and i think debating is the best way we can learn about our religon, by debating we get to know other people beliefs, which might sound better to us then our own beliefs and  the reason why people might convert to mirzaism and ismailism is probably the thing that it sounded better to them then sunnism, everybody has their own views and beliefs and i think by debating, reading other books,and try to explore about it through other media we can learn more, which can guide us to the right path and my friend this site doesn't curse other religons but debates on the beliefs of both the sects, with some good references from other books.

May God guide us to the right path and help us live the life in an islamic way.

[This message has been edited by Muslim (edited December 19, 1999).]

A debate does NOT ever lead to a solution. Its common knowledge. Debates only serve the purpose of creating doubts in the minds of the third person, not the people involved in the debate, because for the most part, the debators dont know squat about what they are talking. As for this shia sunni debate, it is pretty clear the way the debate has been listed....shia being the "well wisher" and sunni being a hafiz or nawab. Islam is NOT open to debate. If you have doubts about anything, that is your own business as to whether you want to believe in something thats different from what others are following. The teachings of Islam are all there in black and white. The Quran, and Sunnah. Now if you wanna distort facts and make them sound the way you want them to, then of course thats your choice. I am not trying to preach anything here. Some of my best friends have been shias and mirzais, and i personally dont have anything against anyone. I just cringe at such debates where people try to smoothly distort something written either in the Quran or in ahadees, thinking that the audience is stupid.

Akif.........>>Some of my best friends have been shias and mirzais, and i personally dont have anything against anyone.<<

I do not wish to participate in shia/sunni discussion, but please forgive me for saying that it is not fair for you to equate shias or sunnis or wahabis or any other Muslim sects with 'mirzais'. These have been declared 'murtads/munkars', by well researched scholars of today thruout Muslim world. They may be your best friends, but to cite their example in the same breath, while talking about the differences of the sects within Islam, is not a wise move.

Mirzais, believe that Prophet Mohammad swaw, was not he last prophet and they place the crown of apostleship on a worthless person called, ......... well you know who!! How could they be considered Muslims???? And to say that you have nothing against them is like saying, 'fine I do not mind to whatever extent you may wish to twist my religion which is already perfected and completed as per the book ordained!'

I am not suggesting that you take arms agianst them, but atleast you can say from your mouth that you abhore their beliefs. Afterall we all have freedom to say whatever!

wasalaam!

Baykhatr.....i meant to talk about people who might have different beliefs than mine.

These have been declared 'murtads/munkars', by well researched scholars of today thruout Muslim world.<<
For that matter, even shias have been declared munkirs by a lot of scholars. It depends which shia sect you talk about, because their types range from ones who simpley hate all sahaba, to ones who have actually altered the Holy Quran. My point was not about starting a debate either. I hate debates, like i said. My point was to consider people who have beliefs different than mine as equal based on them being human beings, whether they are shias, christians, mirzias or hindus.

And to say that you have nothing against them is like saying, 'fine I do not mind to whatever extent you may wish to twist my religion which is already perfected and completed as per the book ordained!'<<

No..it is more like saying that whatever you think or say is not going to change anything that happened in Islamic history, and is not going to change my belief in it either. I am not in the business of preaching. To each his own. My point was..i never talk to them about religion, so this issue never comes up.

I am not suggesting that you take arms agianst them, but atleast you can say from your mouth that you abhore their beliefs. Afterall we all have freedom to say whatever!<<
Rather than wasting time abhoring others incorrect beliefs, why not spend time strengthening our own beliefs? Because on the day of judgement, we are not going to be accounted based on how much we hated the disbelievers, but based on how much we believed ourselves.

For these peoples Shias and Ahmadiys are the biggest problem and Hindus who are spreading filth against Islam is not a thread. I have not seen these guys answering Hindus, I guess they are too busy spearding hatered among Pakitanis.

Well my experience of life is ....

If u believe in Allah then pray Allah, forget what is sunnism and what is shia-ism. I am sunni myself and I thought sunnis were right in explaining the religion ... but unfortunately I found flaws in all explanations i.e. in both sunnis and shias. But any other sect outside Sunnis and Shias are declared Non-Muslims and thats right, they are not muslims.

[This message has been edited by Najim (edited December 20, 1999).]

Dear Baykhatr,

”I do not wish to participate in shia/sunni discussion, but please forgive me for saying that it is not fair for you to equate shias or sunnis or wahabis or any other Muslim sects with 'mirzais'.<<<”

The reason you don’t want to participate is shia/sunni discussion is because shias will send you back where you came from. That leaves poor Ahmadis.

Any thing nice coming out of your mouth will be a miracle, but whom are we kidding? As long as shumks like you exist in this world, prophets will continue to come. But there is no guarantee that they can do the job. 200 of your buddies were arrested in Peshawar and Islambad yesterday for plotting to bomb western interests. I wonder how many of them were Ahmaids. The best therapy for you is perhaps your own pathetic existence. Take a moment to reflect.

Marry Christmas!

good answer NYAhmadi.
Najim,
I would like to hear your flaws in the shia religion and maybe I'll clear those up for you. I don't think any sunnis will actually read our replies and will come up with answers that don't make any sense and still remain uneducated.

NYA......>>As long as shumks like you exist in this world, prophets will continue to come.<<

shumks like mine or not....but one thing is sure that no prophet is going to come anymore. This is well documented and ordained. The logic is not in expecting more but strengthining on the teaching of those who have already come. And I can assure you that even a mirzai wont believe on a new commer. Strange though, while they themselves have abused and insulted Apostleship, by incoroporating a false one.

Why dont you go and water your Islam by repeating the name of your Mirza on the beads. Or do you want me to remind you when and where he exhorted his followers to do so.

I was sunni 3 years back and whole family has converted to shiaism!

Let me correct your thinking, we Ahmadiys do not believe in end of prophethood. We believe that if more to come he will prove himslef from Quran. Only thing we believe is that if any one has to come he will come from the followers of Islam. I have said that before and I am saying again, go and prayer to God for Messiah, Prayer so hard that your place of prayer is socked with your tears, you or your next generations will not see a face of another Messiah.