Does Islam recognize PVS as a true death? (i.e. cortex of brain not working, but the brainstem is?)
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
Does Islam recognize PVS as a true death? (i.e. cortex of brain not working, but the brainstem is?)
what do you think
islam is religion or science
death occurs when heart beat stops
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
So, then CPR is haraam?
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
So, then CPR is haraam?
CPR ?
comman programmable radio ?
and why that will be haram
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
So, then CPR is haraam?
No PCG, Holy Quran mentions ashab Kaf they were in this state for 100 years along with their dog, hence Islam has nothing against that.
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
I'm not trying to put blinders on.
CPR = mouth to mouth resuscitation
CPR is done when you lose the heart beat. A person can be revived by CPR (although its nowhere as efficient a process as TV shows make it out to be, just for the record).
So...death can't possibly be only when the heart stops breathing.
The reason why I ask is because I remember being told that being hooked up to machines to keep you alive is not acceptable in Islam; that one should essentially "pull the plug", and not keep a patient on artificial life support.
That brings to question a hotly debated topic, and I'm unclear what Islam's position is on this, and what today's scholars say on the topic: If a muslim patient were to get into a persistent vegetative state, are they considered alive or dead? (Its a state where your brainstem is working, so essentially, you can breathe, etc - and you'd be on a feeding tube in the hospital, like Terri Schaevo was, but you've lost cortical function, so essentially you can't think and process thoughts).
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
I'm not trying to put blinders on.
CPR = mouth to mouth resuscitation
If a muslim patient were to get into a persistent vegetative state, are they considered alive or dead? (Its a state where your brainstem is working, so essentially, you can breathe, etc - and you'd be on a feeding tube in the hospital, like Terri Schaevo was, but you've lost cortical function, so essentially you can't think and process thoughts).
***The danger lies in the person that is in a Vegetative state may end up being used to harvest Organs..........kinda goulish ........so In my opinion the immediate family would have the last word to pull the plug!
May be some scholars have already ruled on that, I am not aware of that.
Interesting problem though....No blinders Sorry....... but far sighted........:)
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
You'd be surprised how common the problem is. Its quite an important question. I was recently at a talk where it came up, and someone made some comments about Islamic beliefs on it, and it didn't sound right. Hence, why I want some clarification.
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
I have read and heard very recently that you should not take one off life support because if you 'out of sympathy' or 'humanity' think that it's better he/she just be let go and cut off from that which is necessary to keep one alive, is as if you've murdered that person. It's also said that, while one suffers, his/her sins are being washed, and by ending his/her life, you are interrupting that over which you have no right and you maybe depriving that person of purifying their soul.
If you'd like i can get u a link to the vid. It's by Bilal Phillips, if i remember correctly.
ps. i'm not sure if that is what you were referring to, as in vegetative state. :)
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
I think death,from the Islamic perspective, is the point where the soul leaves the body. Obviously, it doesn't happen exactly when heart stops because people can be brought back from this state. Exactly when a person cant be brought back from he verge of death is constantly challenged by science, but there definitely is one, clinically undetectable point when the soul leaves, and then bringing someone back is impossible. I'm guessing it occurs when key brain cells die, but who knows maybe one day science would be able to bring them back as well using stem cells or something. Obviously, no science can bring back the decomposed dead, so this will be one point that science will never challenge.
I think if Allah wanted this person with PVS to die, no amount of life support could save him/her. I personally think this person has the right to live, and nobody DESERVES to die just because they cant be kept alive without help. If it were so, we might as well just kill all our children?
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Re: Persistent Vegetative State
I have read and heard very recently that you should not take one off life support because if you 'out of sympathy' or 'humanity' think that it's better he/she just be let go and cut off from that which is necessary to keep one alive, is as if you've murdered that person. It's also said that, while one suffers, his/her sins are being washed, and by ending his/her life, you are interrupting that over which you have no right and you maybe depriving that person of purifying their soul.
If you'd like i can get u a link to the vid. It's by Bilal Phillips, if i remember correctly.
ps. i'm not sure if that is what you were referring to, as in vegetative state. :)
That's something completely different than I heard when I was growing up - I had heart that artificial support for life is haraam, as you're keeping a person away from their grave when if it weren't for those machines and tubes, the person would have died on their own.
For example, if I got into an accident in a forest, and entered a PVS state, and I was not rescued, I would eventually die within a few days, essentially of starvation, because I would still be breathing, but wouldn't be able to move, or think.
If the ambulance picks me up, they can put a feeding tube in me, and I'll appear warm and I'll appear as if I'm breathing. But I can't think. So, has my soul left me?
Hard topic. We don't know what part of the brain function defines the presence of a soul?
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
When you "Pull the Plug" is exactly the time when Allah wanted that person back. How can we determine that pulling the plug is happening because of our choice
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
You'd be surprised how common the problem is. Its quite an important question. I was recently at a talk where it came up, and someone made some comments about Islamic beliefs on it, and it didn't sound right. Hence, why I want some clarification.
Other the/an this issue an other one donating eyes after death
I know Mulana Maododi said donating your eyes after your death is haram.
I remember his fatwa He said, " If you donate your eyes to some one an dafter getting your eyes he saw any haram thing and do some bad deeds with the help of your eyes you will be accountable or responsible for his sins."
As I think giving your eyes after death is swab this statement made me to think it is a sin:(
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
Other the/an this issue an other one donating eyes after death I know Mulana Maododi said donating your eyes after your death is haram. I remember his fatwa He said, " If you donate your eyes to some one an dafter getting your eyes he saw any haram thing and do some bad deeds with the help of your eyes you will be accountable or responsible for his sins." As I think giving your eyes after death is swab this statement made me to think it is a sin:(
maododi was not always correct and not always wrong
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
maododi was not always correct and not always wrong
Every school of thought is not always wrong or right:)
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
Every school of thought is not always wrong or right:)
correct
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I believe Shaykh Ahamad Deedat was fed with the tube when he was on his death bed... so...yeah make up your mind...
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
I have nothing against Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, he is doing great service to Islam. Though at times I think it is better for Islamic scholars to not say something about certain matters than to give an opinion. Issues like this one in my opinion are better left to personal choice rather than a religious cirteria because honestly we have none and it is highly debatable. I don’t think Abu Ammenah can explain his view when a young child is in PVS. I have witnessed a case where a child child of 9 years suffered brain damage in went into PVS. His parents eventually had to pull the plug on him.
Re: Persistent Vegetative State
So, I take it there is no one unanimous conscensus on PVS at the moment?
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If brain not functioning is the sole test of death I've then encountered a few right in these boards! In their interest I'd add to that in and non functioning brain, non-functioning internet cnxn as a further requirement. :)
Also just for the records, I think mouth2mouth is a part of cpr.