Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Imran first to blink as march turns back from the badlands - Asia - World - The Independent

As the sun set last night, Imran Khan claimed his peace march into Pakistan’s most dangerous areas had been a success, despite failing to make it into militant-plagued South Waziristan.

As the sun set last night, Imran Khan claimed his peace march into Pakistan’s most dangerous areas had been a success, despite failing to make it into militant-plagued South Waziristan.

The cricketer-turned-politician led a convoy of several hundred vehicles of supporters and press from Islamabad in a chaotic and gruelling two-day cavalcade that inched its way west across the country.

But the peace protest, which had hoped to reach Kotkai, was forced to turn back just beyond Tank, the last town before South Waziristan, a no-go zone where admission is tightly controlled, after Mr Khan’s party received military warnings of “extreme danger” ahead. But Mr Khan could claim success. Thousands turned out to support the march, which had achieved its mission of attracting attention to the bombardment of the tribal belt by American unmanned “drone” aircraft, a clandestine programme run by the CIA that aims to assassinate suspected al-Qa’ida and Taliban militants with precision strikes.

The stunt had also boosted Mr Khan’s political credentials, as he gears up for a long-shot at becoming Pakistan’s next prime minister. He told his exhausted supporters at a rally that they had been on a journey that neither of the country’s two traditional ruling parties could pull off.

“Drones are against all human rights and international law,” Mr Khan, wearing an elaborate tribal turban, told about 3,000 supporters. “We wish to give the Americans a message: the more you do your drone attacks, the more people here will hate you”. Mr Khan claims that the drones largely kill civilians and the anger this generates drives terrorist attacks in Pakistan, as tribesmen take revenge.

Since the programme started in 2004, the CIA has carried out 334 missile strikes in Pakistan’s tribal area. These have reportedly killed between 1,886 and 3,194 people, according to a tally kept by the New America Foundation, a US think tank.

How many of those killed were, in fact, extremists is hotly debated, with some from the tribal area privately insisting that almost all the dead were militants.

Festooned with flags and posters, the convoy was led by a line of Toyota Land Cruisers carrying the top brass of Mr Khan’s Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf party, and was greeted by enthusiastic crowds at towns and villages along the way, waving and wanting to catch a glimpse of Mr Khan

“If these drones stopped, this area, Waziristan, would be peaceful,” said Kalim Ullah Khan Dawar, one of the marchers from North Waziristan. “I’ve had to carry out the bodies of dead children myself from the wreckage of strikes.”

Adding to the pizzazz of the event was a sprinkling of foreign campaigners, including the British human rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith, and 32 US peace activists, mostly women, from a group called Code Pink. Addressing the rally, Mr Stafford Smith said: “We are your friends. We are here with you to make sure you get justice, to make sure there are no more drones.”

Mr Khan may have claimed success yesterday, but his critics remained scathing. In the English-language newspaper Dawn Sunday, Pakistani columnist Cyril Almeida called the march “a made-for-TV dog and pony show that will be high on drama and low on substance [that] will resonate with Khan’s base”. The protest had earlier pushed on despite the seemingly real danger of a suicide bombing by the Pakistani Taliban, withering criticism accusing Mr Khan of appeasing extremists and the government’s refusal to give permission to enter South Waziristan, part of the lawless tribal area that borders Afghanistan.

As the convoy attempted to leave Tank for Kotkai, authorities put blockades in front of the marchers. Young activists from Mr Khan’s party managed to overturn the shipping containers put in their path. However, that delayed the protesters so much that, as they left Tank for South Waziristan, it was already afternoon and night would be no time to be caught in the tribal area.

Mr Khan said that the military contacted him to warn of a “genuine threat” ahead. That, together with the fading light, convinced him to end the march.

Earlier this week, in threatening tones, the Pakistani Taliban had issued a statement excoriating Mr Khan and the march. It is in the interests of both the military and the Taliban to keep the tribal area beyond the scrutiny of ordinary Pakistanis and the rest of the world. In that, they succeeded.

Critics said the convoy was a ‘made-for-TV dog and pony show, high on drama but low on substance’

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Kya baat hay zardari ki

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Can Imran Khan be Pakistan’s next prime minister? – Telegraph Blogs

Can Imran Khan be Pakistan’s next prime minister?

The past two days have been spent bumping through one of the most dangerous corners of Pakistan. The road to South Waziristan is long, potholed and leads ever closer to al-Qaeda and Taliban strongholds.

Few of Pakistan’s best-known politicians would ever travel here. Fewer still would have the charisma and sureness needed to lead hundreds of peace campaigners - including 30 or so middle-aged women from America – on a demonstration to the gates of the country’s lawless, tribal regions.

But Imran Khan has managed it, propelling the issue of America’s covert drone operation into headlines around the world. That alone is some achievement. At the same time, it will bolster his political party’s support in a forgotten region of Pakistan.

Could it also be part of a journey that leads him next year into the position of prime minister?

After years in the political wilderness since quitting cricket in the 1990s, Imran’s stock has risen rapidly. His anti-corruption message has drawn new followers and a monster rally in Lahore, where he attracted more than 100,000 supporters, has made the ruling political elite sit up and take notice. His political opponents are labelling him Taliban Khan for his anti-American rhetoric and questions remain about his links to the military.

Elections due next year are certain to see the former all-rounder pick up seats. But how many?

Although in interviews he maintains that he is due a historic landslide, there are signs that his campaign may be losing momentum. The defections to his Movement of Justice party triggered by the Lahore “tipping point” have slowed, and there is constant talk of splits within the party leadership about what level of sleaze is acceptable in a new arrival if they bring the prospect of a seat with them.

That question may be the cause of a recent dip in polling fortunes. A leaked survey of 6000 voters conducted by the International Republican Institute, suggest Khan’s PTI (its Urdu initials) has lost ground in two key battlegrounds – the swing province of Khyber-Pakhtunkwa and his own backyard in Punjab. Nationally, the figures suggest his support has dropped by 9 per cent to 24 per cent – putting him behind the main PML-N opposition party of Nawaz Sharif.

But beware the polls. Pakistan’s first-past-the-post system means election results are difficult to divine from national surveys. Then there are the rural vote banks, controlled by feudal landlords who can ensure thousands of tenant farmers vote according to instruction. Imran’s PTI lacks the constituency organisations to challenge, runs the orthodox view.

Some diplomats believe the ruling Pakistan People’s Party will emerge as the biggest single party, so long as wheat prices and other commodities mean life in its farming heartlands remains profitable. In fact, Imran’s biggest impact may be to nick seats from Sharif, helping President Asif Ali Zardari stay in power.

So most sensible analysts suggests a haul of 20 or 25 seats for Imran. A breakthrough to be sure, but far short of the magic number of 172 needed for a majority.

That does not mean he can’t have a wider impact. His anti-corruption efforts, his recognition that aid is preventing Pakistan reforming its own tax system and his threat to sweep away a dynastic political system mired in graft are just what this country needs. If he can continue to get ordinary voters to connect their difficult circumstances with the failings of a rarefied political elite, then Imran will change Pakistan for the better – even if he isn’t prime minister.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

I am sorry but this march shows that as a party PTI can not win a single seat on party bases , May be there two= three who can win on personal bases .

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

^ good, Yeh tou Khushi ki baat hay

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Imran Khan's biggest achievement is that every one is discussing (doesn't matter in his favor or against) him and scrutinizing each and every step that he is taking, even more then the government. Kudos to him.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

TTP, JUIF and PMLN are on the same page with regards to the peace march.

Safdar Dawar ‏@DawarSafdar](https://twitter.com/DawarSafdar)
TTP says imran khan march was political had nothing about drones and tribals.Ihsanullah ihsan pressrelease.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

that is fine, if people want to be looted by PPP I'm okay with that. What I don't want is PTI winning by fake voting like PPP or MQM.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Why should Zardari be ashamed? He is the one who provided the opportunity to Imran Khan, had he not accepted the rise in number of drones there would be no need of this march to begin with.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

How do you justify Salim Safi proposing in 2011 that the international community should be made aware of the ground realities of tribal region and when in 2012 it finally happens, he takes a complete U-turn on his own suggestion?

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

No battle is going on here. I have no weapon in my hands. But I would love to know about every "blunder" the PTI has committed and discuss it rationally. I would love to listen to each "question" the PTI and IK have "raised" during the course of peace march.

I can bet had he postponed the rally in the wake of all the efforts made for the same, he would have been crucified in no different fashion as he is being done now for going ahead with the plan. Salim Safi's columns have already been put up as an example. Even if there were only 10 people, shouldn't he be given credit for taking a practical step instead of issuing handout from his office?

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Analysis: CNN expert’s civilian drone death numbers don’t add up: TBIJ

Following recent revelations by the New York Times that all military-aged males in Waziristan are considered fair game by the CIA in its drone strikes, many US journalists have been reassessing how they report on deaths in the attacks.

So when CNN’s national security analyst Peter Bergen produced a graph claiming that no civilians have been killed in Pakistan this year by US drones, his views were bound to attract criticism. Conor Friedersdorf, a columnist at The Atlantic, accused CNN and Bergen of running ‘bogus data‘, for example.

Bergen is also a director of the New America Foundation, which for more than three years has run a database on CIA drone strikes in Pakistan and produces estimates of numbers killed. That data is the most frequent source of statistics for the US media, including CNN itself. So the accuracy of its material is important.

Yet there are credible reports of civilian deaths in Pakistan this year. And unlike the New America Foundation the Bureau actively tracks those claims.
Up to July 16 for example, between three and 27 civilians have been reported killed in Pakistan this year, out of 148 – 220 deaths. Some were actively defined as civilians by news organisations including Reuters and AFP. But these are not necessarily the only civilian deaths. Ambivalent reports might sometimes refer only to ‘people’ or ‘local tribesmen’ killed. More research is needed. And of the remaining alleged militants killed, we have so far been able to name just 13 individuals.
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/120703074500-bergen-drone-pakistan-story-top.jpg
***CNN’s controversial graph suggesting the CIA has killed no civilians in Pakistan this year.


Bergen’s claim of zero reported civilian casualties this year is therefore factually inaccurate.

To be so categoric is also problematic. The Bureau’s own data shows that of at least 2,500 people killed by the CIA in Pakistan since 2004, we publicly only know the identities of around 500. Most of the others were reported to be alleged militants by local and international media. We can say no more than that.

It is not just in NAF’s 2012 data that credible reports of civilian deaths have been missed or ignored. NAF’s Pakistan data also contains many other inaccuracies. A number of confirmed strikes are omitted, for instance, and its overall estimates of those killed are significantly below even the CIA’s own count. The consequence is a skewed picture of drone activity which continues to inform many opinion-makers.

**Subjective choices
**
On July 13 Peter Bergen responded to his recent critics in a CNN article which stated that reported civilian casualties in Pakistan are in decline – as the Bureau itself recently noted. He also repeated his claim of no civilian casualties in Pakistan this year. And he attacked the Bureau for its own recording work in this area:

The Bureau of Investigative Journalism’s high estimate of 24 civilian deaths in 2012 came in part from reports provided by an unreliable Pakistani news outlet as well as the claims of a local Taliban commander, which contradicted all other reports.

It’s worth unpicking Bergen’s claims in some detail.

His comments appear to refer to a CIA drone strike on February 9 in which local Taliban commander Badar Mansoor died. Citing just four sources, NAF’s data reports only that three to five ‘militants’, including Mansoor, died in the attack.

But this is a misrepresentation which ignores credible claims of civilian casualties, as the Bureau’s own Pakistan database makes clear.

Among 18 unique sources we cite, the Bureau links to a story by Reuters, the international news agency. Reuters notes a Taliban commander’s claims that Mansoor’s wife and child died in the February 9 attack. Local paper The News also reported that Mansoor’s wife and children were either injured or killed; and a Bureau field researcher reported anecdotal claims from the town that some of the leader’s family had died.

As the Bureau notes, these overt claims of civilian deaths on February 9 remain contested. We state that between zero and two civilians reportedly died in the strike. It is not clear either way. What cannot be stated is that no civilians died.

Bergen’s reference to an ‘unreliable Pakistani news outlet’ is also confusing. Dawn, The Nationand The News are all reputable Pakistani dailies, cited on occasion by CNN and NAF themselves. And Central Asia Online states clearly that ‘a woman and a girl child were injured’ in the strike, not killed.

In fact Bergen’s comments undermine further the credibility of the NAF data he constantly cites. A partial list of media reports has not been updated since the day of the attack – despite a number of salient facts since emerging. And as Bergen notes in his CNN article, the Reuters report of civilian deaths is rejected as a NAF source on the (inaccurate) grounds that it involved ‘the claims of a local Taliban commander, which contradicted all other reports.’

In their CNN article Bergen and co-reporter Jennifer Rowland make no mention of a second strike in which civilians were also reported killed in Pakistan this year. According to credible media, along with a number of alleged militants between three and eight worshipers died when a mosque was struck (possibly accidentally) on May 24.

That claim is independently supported by Britain’s Channel 4 News; by Pakistan’s The News(generally the most accurate local source for information on casualties); and by French news agency AFP. The Bureau cites 17 unique sources overall in its coverage, noting reports of damage to the mosque and of civilian casualties.

Bergen’s New America Foundation, relying on just four sources, says only that 10 ‘militants’ were killed in a ‘compound.’

NAF’s claims of ‘zero civilians killed’ by the CIA in Pakistan in 2012 is reached by the simple expedient of not including in its data any of the credible reports of civilian deaths.

Full of errors
When the Bureau began looking in earnest at US drone strikes in summer 2010, we started to work with NAF’s data, and that of the Long War Journal. At that time we had no interest in the time-consuming (and expensive) effort of compiling and maintaining accurate data on covert US strikes.

But the more we worked with NAF’s material, the more troubled we became. In February 2011 for example, the Bureau wrote to NAF noting a number of errors.

We pointed out a strike that it had missed entirely (November 5 2005). The Bureau also drew NAF’s attention to a number of date errors. The Foundation claimed a strike had taken place on May 14 2005, for example. In fact that attack took place on May 8th.

Bergen personally acknowledged the email, saying ‘thanks for drawing attention to these.’ Yet almost 18 months on those errors – easily verifiable – remain uncorrected.

Our concerns about the data – particularly on the question of civilian deaths – ultimately compelled us to start from scratch, re-examining every US drone strike in Pakistan to try and understand what had really been going on.

We now know, for example, that eight years in to the CIA’s bombing campaign in Pakistan, NAF still lists the wrong date (June 18 2004) for the very first strike. Citing just one source, NAF also makes no reference to the civilians killed that day, including two children.

That first attack actually took place on Thursday June 17 as CNN and many other sources correctly noted at the time. Militant commander Nek Mohammed died along with up to eight others. These included, it was widely reported, the two young sonsof Sher Zaman Ashrafkhel.

Eight years in to the CIA’s bombing campaign in Pakistan, NAF still lists the wrong date for the very first strike and has yet to note the reported civilian casualties that day.’

On another occasion in October 2006, an attack on a seminary killed at least 81 people. New America Foundation does not count these ‘militants’ in its data, reporting that the attack was Allegedly conducted by Pakistani military, but may have been conducted by US forces. Noted here for the record but not included in above fatality totals.’

Claims that the Pakistan military carried out this attack were long ago dismissed. A senior aide to Pakistan’s then-leader Pervez Musharraf told the Sunday Times within weeks that ‘we thought it would be less damaging if we said we did it rather than the US.’ Last August former ISI director General Asad Durrani confirmed in an interview that the CIA carried out the strike. And just weeks ago General Musharraf himself pointedly refused to deny US involvement.

There are also reports that up to 69 children died in the October 2006 attack. While some contest this claim, local media has listed the full names, ages, family details and home villages of every child reported killed.

Bergen and New America Foundation continue to make no reference to any of these salient facts. Nor do they count these 81 deaths in their figures.

**‘Civilian deaths not new’
**
The New America Foundation regularly publishes definitive numbers on the overall civilian death tolls in Pakistan.

On March 27 for example, Bergen and co-worker Jennifer Rowland claimed that ‘according to our data, 7% of the fatalities resulting from drone strikes [in Pakistan] in 2011 were civilians.’ The duolowered that estimate on June 10, now claiming that civilian deaths in Pakistan ‘averaged 5.5% in 2011.’
The Bureau has been unable to replicate either of NAF’s recent statistical claims from the Foundation’s published data.

In contrast, our own data shows that between 465 and 659 people died overall in 2011. Of these between 75 and 127 were reportedly civilians. Since we cannot know where, within these ranges, accurate figures lie, the best that can be said is that reported civilian deaths account for between 11% and 27% of all of those killed by the CIA in Pakistan last year.

In July 2011 the Bureau issued a major report based on its first field investigation in Pakistan. This directly challenged US claims that it wasn’t killing civilians in the tribal areas, presenting the CIAwith the details of 45 civilians killed in the specified period and raising significant concerns about a further 66 deaths.

The Bureau has been unable to replicate recent statistical claims from the Foundation’s published data.’

Initially the Bureau’s report received little coverage in the US, not only by the mainstream US media but also by the influential AfPak Channel, which is edited by Bergen and Rowland. When we challenged this omission, New America Foundation senior advisor Patrick Doherty shed some light in a July 19 email on why our study had been ignored:

One reason is that the tallies on civilian deaths in PAK is not particularly new. We’ve been monitoring drone strikes for a few years and tracking civilian and militant deaths. The mainstream media has been reporting on our numbers, quite thoroughly, in fact. The gotcha on John Brennan, as a result, kind of rings hollow.

In fact no US media organisation had challenged US intelligence community assertions that civilians were no longer being killed by the CIA in Pakistan. Those extraordinary claims went uncontested for six months, when the Bureau published its investigation.

**Snapshot nature
**
Perhaps the greatest issue with New America Foundation’s data is its incomplete, snapshot nature.

Public understanding of US covert drone strikes changes all the time. That’s why the Bureau’s eight databases change constantly, incorporating the latest understanding of each attack – and seeking information from as wide a pool of credible sources as possible.

Last year, for example, we learned that a 2009 attack in Pakistan which had initially been reported as killing alleged militants, women and children appeared to have been a strike on a child suicide bomber training camp, run by the Taliban. More recently, we incorporated evidence from sworn affidavits filed in the London High Court, relating to the deaths of many civilians in March 2011.

In contrast NAF’s data represents at best a partial snapshot of an attack, often based on just a few media reports on the day. No effort appears to be made to update, amend or correct its data.

In his most recent article for CNN looking at civilian deaths in Pakistan, Bergen cites a major Associated Press investigation into drone strike casualties published in February of this year. As the Bureau reported at the time, that investigation, based on 80 witness statements, uncovered previously unknown evidence of civilian deaths in a number of strikes. We amended our data records accordingly, to reflect these findings.

NAF’s data represents at best a partial snapshot of an attack, often based on just a few media reports on the day. No effort appears to be made to update, amend or correct its data.’

NAF has yet to change any of its records – despite Bergen citing AP’s study in his own defence. So while AP reports thatseven civilians died alongside seven Taliban on August 14 2010, NAF continues to state only that ’7-13 militants were killed.’

The cumulative effect of all these omissions and errors is that NAF’s data substantially under-estimates both the overall numbers of those killed, and the reports of civilians who have died in Pakistan strikes.

In August 2010, in response to the Bureau publishing its Pakistan data, the US government issued its first overall estimate of the numbers killed in CIA drone strikes since 2001, stating that approximately 2,050 had died – all but fifty of them combatants.

Eleven months on, and 47 strikes later, a minimum of 262 further deaths have occurred in Pakistan. Yet the New America Foundation still gives a low estimate of 1,870 killed. That indicates that its estimates are some 400 below the CIA’s own numbers.

The New America Foundation has undoubtedly done valuable work in recent years in bringing to the attention of the US public the scale of America’s covert wars. Its data represents a useful snapshot of most strikes, a helpful base upon which further research can be built.

But NAF cannot claim that its data represents an accurate record of what we publicly know about US drone strikes in Pakistan and elsewhere. And without radically overhauling its methodology, Bergen and NAF cannot credibly continue to offer up such precise estimates of ‘civilian deaths’ in Pakistan.

Follow @chrisjwoods](https://twitter.com/chrisjwoods) on Twitter.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

what is this talk about "battle" or "weapon" in this post Amal? : ) I don’t care what this Safi guy says, he's always so negative about everything, leave him.

the question raised in my mind is, how is this any achievement at all? just getting few americans to visit waziristan, just because they are americans, is no achievement for me. fine it was one step ahead of ganja and zardari and everyone else, but where does it lead us to? one group of americans for drones, another group against it, that’s all the case for Pakistan?

and who are we protesting against by going there? we all know these strikes happen with agreement of our government and military, americans are merely protecting their interests as they say, our own people are complicit in these killings. Protest in front of US embassy, in front of GHQ, in front of president house of in front of Parliament. That will be more practical, arrange a sit-in there, in front of Parliament as promised and don’t let go until you get assurance of no more strikes. What happened to the promised dharnaas against drone strikes? there was supposed to be one after another.

showing solidarity with people of waziristan? ok then go to north waziristan where most of the drone strikes happen.

what about killings in Karachi? the "war" in karachi has claimed more lives than the drone strikes this year, or may be last year as well. why complete silence about it? because now imran has some kind of "understanding" with MQM?

and did you not read the first sentence in the last para of my post? yes this was one step ahead from issuing handout from his office, but it was not executed properly, a party which is already going through hard time, needs to take every step with double the caution. when you listen to the opponents and proponents of PTI you run into all kinds of questions like above, the solution is not to avoid these questions and close your eyes, solution is to address them, and try not to give others chance to raise such questions.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

there was a poll conducted on CNN page, where majority supports US drone strikes in Pakistan. that, just goes to show that US propaganda actually works, they just dont want to be exposed that what these drone attacks are actually doing to tribal people, they are appeasing their public by telling them we are killing bad guys, when the ground reality is far off from it.

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

mashallah … misaal dee bhi to kiss ki, Khwaja Asif!!! someone whose word cannot be trusted … koi sacha insaan nahin mila

applies to NS btw …This is like ulta chor kotowal ko daantey!!!

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

Khawaja Asif and Ch Nisar have accepted the challenge of Imran Khan months ago and waiting for a defamation case since months . Till Imran files a case against them they are trust worthy and Imran is a ..........................................................
* Dash for avoiding another ban .

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

duh, like Kh. Asif took Imran to court after falsely accusing him and his hospital of all sorts of things. Obviously you can't see that..

How very convenient..

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

You reversed the situation

‘Baseless allegations’: Imran Khan to take Khwaja Asif to court –](Redirect Notice)

Asif also repeated the same yesterday

Re: Peace overture: PTI caravan for Waziristan

But jab Asif itni bari bari haank raha tha why didn’t he take IK to court or file a case against him if he was so truthful. Obviously he knew it was all just one big tamasha or drama and that he could not prove anything against IK…

IK’s reaction was a response to his false accusations