Pay money for Black Magic cure?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Naveed,

This guy is Dabba Pir, here is lecture of Dr Tahi-ul-Qadri who explains who is wali:

WaliyyoN-ki-Pehchan
WaliyyoN ki PehchanBy:Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr M. Tahir-ul-Qadri - DeenIslam.Com

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Thanks Saqi.. I know what a wali is.... but can I please worship Allah and understand the basics of my Quran first? If I have anytime left, then I'll try to find wali and learn from him too. Just don't ask me to give Wali a higher priority then Quran and Sharia't. Tareeqat is below Sharia't and if anyone is away from Sharia't... I don't want them to waste mine or other peoples time.

Also, the real wali's don't have time for extra large gatherings of mureeds and sit on AIR-CONDITIONED mimbars in summer (like Mr. Tahir Qadri) and have people kiss their hands....... they're too busy helping and correcting public.

Mr. Tahir Qadri is just another shula bayan khateeb who uses emotions and many tactics that avangelist preists use in the west. I like to listen to boring but knowledgeable people who emphasize on understanding of deen and stay away from personal opinions. Any khateeb who asks people to follow HIM and not the sharia't is suspecious.

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Re: Pay money for Black Magic cure?

^^

About kissing hands:

Usama ibn Sharik narrates: “I came to see the Prophet while his Companions were with him, and they seemed as still as if birds had alighted on top of their heads. I gave him my salam and I sat down. [Then Beduins came and asked questions which the Prophet answered.] … The Prophet then stood up and the people stood up. They began to kiss his hand, whereupon I took his hand and placed it on my face. I found it more fragrant than musk and cooler than sweet water.”

abari narrates it mursal [missing the Companion-link] through al-Suddi in his Tafsir in commenting on verse 5:101: “Do not ask of things which once shown to you would hurt you” with the wording: “Umar ibn al-Khattab got up and kissed the foot of Allah's Messenger and said: O Messenger of Allah, we are pleased with Allah as our Lord, with Islam as our religion, and with Muhammad as our Prophet, and with the Qur'an as our Book. Forgive, and Allah will forgive you (fafu afallahu anka). And he did not cease until the Prophet softened.”

Tamim ibn Salama relates with a chain of trustworthy narrators that Abu Ubayda ibn al-Jarrah kissed Umar’s hand when the latter came to Damascus, after which they both began to weep. Tamim said: “Therefore they considered that kissing the hand is Sunna,” and in another version: “Kissing the hand is Sunna,” and in another: “Kissing is Sunna.”

Bukhari in al-Adab al-mufrad also relates with a sound chain that Suhayb the freedman of al-Abbas saw Sayyidna Ali kiss the hand and feet of the Prophet’s uncle al-`Abbas and said to him: “O Uncle! Be pleased with me.” al-Muqri’ also narrates it through Sulayman ibn Ayyub and through a third chain from his shaykh al-Tahawi in al-Rukhsa fi taqbil al-yad (p. 73 13, p. 76 15).

and there are many more examples in this link.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/hh/k...cholarhand.html

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If you know who/what a Wali is, then you should also know automatically that a Wali can help you more in reaching ALLAH,Koran and Sunnah easily than doing so by yourself.

45

Re: Pay money for Black Magic cure?

If someone is telling you they are above the Quran and Sunnah then clearly you should stay away from such a person.

A wali should be a teacher who shows you how to walk the thorny path to reach true Islam. All of his actions should be according to the deen and if they are not then he is not a wali and one should stay away from him.

Agreed with other people's comments here that 99% of these people are out just to make a buck of ignorant people.

46

Mr. Sarge... Rasool Mubarik also married more than four women and it was not allowed to marry his wives after he left ummah. Should we also follow that Sunnah? Many ahkaam in Quran were only for rasool or his family. Just imagine what would happen if you allow this practice in common people.... the first thing Dabba Pirs love to get done is have their Mureeds kiss their hands and feet in front of others to establish their respect and power in public. Sorry I do not bow to anyone other then Allah and only follow his last rasool... there is no one else worthy of that kind of respect!!

Nabuwat khatam ho gai bhai jaan. Apne kashf ko apne tak mehdood rakhain... deen-e-islam ko asal halat main rehne dijiye.

I want to follow rasool... and not some gadi person who thinks roohani faiz is his personal jageer. By the way I am also a grandson of major jageer daar.... I know all the nasty tactics that can be used to exploit innocent people.... aka "muzare". But I choose to change myself towards Islam and not BLINDLY follow what my ancestors did in the name of Islam to benefit themselves.

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Comparing apples with oranges will not get you anywhere.

Kissing hands being compared with marrying his wives as examples...you are more confused than i though you were.

I can take you in another debate relating to your false statement,'Many ahkaam in Quran were only for rasool or his family.",but i would let you ponder over it yourself.

Again you are wrong that you know about Wali. You have come across a fake one and you are looking through the same glass at everyone.

If you didnot have the time enough to go through the link i posted here, let me quote from that:

Bukhari in his Adab al-Mufrad narrates from Abd al-Rahman ibn Razin that one of the Companions, Salama ibn al-Akwa, raised his hands before a group of people and said: "With these very hands I pledged allegiance to the Messenger of Allah," upon hearing which all who were present got up and went to kiss his hand and he did not object.
Ibn al-Muqri' narrates it in his Rukhsa (p. 72 #12). Narrated with a good chain by Ahmad in his Musnad (4:54-55). Ibn Hajar in Fath al-bari (11:57) declared its chain good (jayyid), and Haythami in Majma` al-zawa'id (8:42) declared its narrators all trustworthy, while Albani declared Bukhari's hadith fair (hasan) in his Sahih al-adab al-mufrad (p. 372 #747)!

Abu Malik al-Ashja`i said that he once asked another Companion of the Tree, Ibn Abi Awfa, "Give me the hand that swore allegiance to the Allah's Messenger, that I may kiss it." Ibn al-Muqri' related it with a sound chain.

Bukhari in the Adab al-mufrad, Ahmad in his Musnad (3:111), and Ibn Abi Umar al-Adani in his Musnad (#19) also narrate through Sufyan ibnUyayna that Thabit al-Bunani the Tabii would come to Anas and kiss his hand because it had touched the Prophet's hand. Ibn al-Muqri' cites it in al-Rukhsa (p. 79 #19). The ruling by Albani that this narration is weak (cf. his Daif al-adab al-mufrad p. 88 #153) is rejected, since the account is confirmed by the following three sound narrations and therefore it is sahih li ghayrih.

I am quoting these so you get an idea what you are talking about, before you talk about it.
Bhai sahab ko eik fake pir takkar gaya hay, tou bhai sahab aaapay se hi bahir ho gaye hain. thanda paani pijaye aur ghussa thook dein.

I hope you get out of the mentality and stigma of a fake pir ruling all your senses 24/7, try and get medical help to get over it or deal with it.

I can only tell you about a Wali once you have made peace with yourself over the fake pir that you dealt with.

goodluck.

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Eik nahin bhai jaan... gali gali aur har dosray mohalay main Pir tamashe kar rahe hain aur jawan larrkon ko Allah ki bajay apne raste par chala rahe hain..... aur Shariat ki baat karo tu aage se apna rub jamate hain. Jis ko daikho koi na koi Pir pakrra hoa hai.... aur agar aap us Pir ke khilaf koi baat keh dain.... ya sawal he pooch lain... to Jihad ka ailaan ho jata hai.

Come to USA and spend some time in newly converted muslims and muslims from Arab..... they are strictly against the personal additions in Islam and initially I debated with them, but later on I learned why they are so strict about shirk and biddah and blindly following holly men.

We go to Pirs for little matters that can be resolved from within Quran or by having strong iman in Allah..... but oh no... ghulam qaum ko to aaqa ki aadat hai. Allah tu nazar nahin aata... chalu un khudaon ke pass jo nazar aate hain.

I know many many many people who have been hurt by such frauds and are still in search for a better Pir.... Allah se ruju karna tu buhut mushkil hai na. Wo kahan jaldi jawab daita hai... aur hamain tu abhi isi waqt masle ka hul chahiye.

No one can claim political, financial or any class wise authority just because they are shehzadgan aur Pir of high rank. Only Taqwa is the basis and Allah is the judge. If you want to get into Title wars then give me the highest rank... as I am from Pundit/Brahman family as well. If that doesn't work, I'll change it to shah, saeed, maulana, hadhrat, haji or whatever gets me to the highest rank just like this fraud pir. We all know how many people changed their family names after partition :) afterall who is going to go to India and verify.

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Re: Pay money for Black Magic cure?

Sarge... just because it affects the reputation of your firqa,.... don't hide the evils of this fraud Pir and the widespread Pir problem in Indo-Pak. Shia, Qadiani and other people also have this issue and its much worse in some sub-sects. I hate firqa baazi and I'm only showing the root cause. The cause is the mis-leading people calling themselves Ulema, Pir, Imam or whatever, who have been escalated faar above Quran and Sunnah. They create sects and exploit people..... Allah doesn't exploit people.

Pirs of christianity first called Jesus son of GOD, then they started calling Jesus the GOD himself. Look closely and you will find parallels. This is what happens when you cross the line and respect a human being to the point of declaring him next to prophets and angels. This is oldest and most favorite shirk of all times. Hindus also worship one GOD, but through many hollymen and wasila. A hindu friend bashed me on that and I was quite clueless.

Follow only those who are on-track.... anyone off-track must be exposed. I like our Arab brethren in this regards that they have cleansed themselves of such shirk.

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Re: Pay money for Black Magic cure?

Sarge... Go to this link below,

in.linkedin.com/in/gharibnawaz

and see for yourself how the whole "Pir problem" works. This man in the link says to call him for problems..... what happened to making dua in tahajud my friend? why such weak iman? why such low patience?

I can provide addresses and links to many many such Pirs but you already know what I mean.... go visit them on their Gadis and then tell me if it feels like Islam or Sikhism gurus.

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Re: Pay money for Black Magic cure?

So they can do it for less then $6,000. Oh yes… I’ll sell my iman on that.. lol

The amount of pain my posts are inflicting on you tell me that you are in this same line of business or some gadi nasheen. how much commission do you give Sarge? I have many innocent people in USA looking for Pirs to help them with VISA problems. Maybe we can both make money and settle our issues by co-operation?? Aakhirat ka kiya pata.. hai bhi ya nahin.

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You talking over here doesnt affects anyones reputation. If you have seen my posts clearly you should know that I am not hiding anything that you have mentioned.

I can give a relevant example, are muslims terrorists? is it taught in islam? NO. Similarly, sufism or roohaniat doesnt have place for fraud pirs.

A little knowledge is dangerous and you just have knowledge, the knowledge of what you have seen and experienced.

Firqa bazi is about sects, its not related at all to sufism or roohani knowledge. I have already mentioned somehwere in earlier posts what fraud pirs do and then they lose the knowledge(roohani powers) that they attain.

In the most common sense, ALLAH elevates the status of a person who is more pious, this can be read about the lives of Wali-ALLAH. You talk about kissing hands/feet,bowing down,showing humbleness towards pirs(fake ones, mention that plz). I have talked about the same but about the real ones, the ones infront of whom you dont need to do purposely, it just happens. You can never know the difference because you have experienced fake ones only. You are only single minded and single tracked and this I have realized now. people like you remind me of those who talk more but do no action, you talk about Koran and Sunnah, but by your posts it only seems you mention them but have no knowledge about them.

Since you have experienced a fake pir only, you have no idea how a real wali-ALLAH can take you near ALLAH. How thats done, I will tell if you show some interest. So next time when you mention a pir,wali etc, try putting fake as prefix because you only have knowledge of fake pirs !!!!!

Pirs of christainity (or saints), can be compared with maulvis of Islam (mullaism,the bookish knowledge), these cannot be compared with wali's and pirs (the roohani knowledge).Hindus are deep down into Black magic stuff, they have made Gods out of jinns after seeing the powers of jinns. Kali ma is one example.

If you like arabs and want to follow them, then by all means dont offer sunnah and navafil after farz prayers too. Sufism is not biddah or off-track thing, because it puts forward ishq of ALLAH.

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Single tracked again... that surely will give u high BP and nothing else. save ur health,save yourself.

I am in no pain seriously, im surprised at you hypocrisy that you acknowledged AULIA-KARAM and WALI-ALLAH, but you have no idea about them. All the knowledge you have is about Fake pirs. I dont blame you. You have come across fake ones only.

And keep your sick ideas to yourself, hypocrisy is making you delusional.

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Lol, in your life ALLAH has put only the fake ones :) what can i say, enjoy with them :)

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Rest of your post was crap, so im only replying this.

As i have asked you before, try putting a prefix (fake) before you write the word "pir", because you interaction has been with fake ones only and thats from where you derive your knowledge, based on your expereince.

You had said that you acknowledge AULIA-KARAM, so i will keep it simple.

The AULIA-KARAM or Wali-ALLAH are closer to ALLAH more than us through their ibadat, pious action, humbleness and love for ALLAH. Thus ALLAH would listen to them more than us (sinners, who barely can offer 5 times prayers). so thats why people go them for help.

I can back up this simple claim with reference from Koran:
"Your helpers are Almighty Allah and His Rasool and those Muslims who perform Salaah and give alms and make Ruku" (5:55,Koran)

But then again, I talk about Wali, not a Fake pir, unlike you.

56

[quote="SargeCandy"]

Sarge says to me.....
if ur under spell of magic and its confirmed then there are other authentic people in pakistan who can cure this and they charge in hundreds usually than in lacs.
QUOTE]

so you sent me the prvt. msg above that there are Pirs who take lacs Rupees to cure black magic... that is enough for me to know what kind of Pir you will take me to. Auli Ikram never took one Paisa for their dua.

How much money would the Pir have given you as commission? and since you have declared me less knowledgeable in previous posts... why don't you educate me on this point first. Or do you need me to call you and get the evidence on record?

How can I be single minded since I am thinking outside of the firqa I was born into, but you're the one defending it at all costs and not willing to even fix a growing problem.

I have sat with all muslim firqas, non-muslims, wahabis, tablighis and many others in USA and Saudi-Arab that you have never even heard of. So travel my friend if you get a chance.

57

You really are dumb,read the message again, i said hundreds THAN in lacs, meaning NOT in lacs but in hundreds. If you cant understand english, take help.

Sometimes things are required to counter some magic effects but they can be bought cheaply for hunderds, not in thousands of ruppess or dollars. Mostly magic effects can be countered easily, but this depends on case to case.

And I am not taking you to a pir, i offered my help but you started to take out your frustration of fake pir on me, so thanks but no thanks.

As for the rest of your post, its crap.

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Re: Pay money for Black Magic cure?

Crap peer. Qurani Aayaats can never harm you......no matter what.

dont compare qurani aayaz with medicines etc which is normal reasoning from these kind of peers

and naveed561, can i borrow your tools too? :)

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can you reference anything from Quran and hadith on giving money for black magic cure? my entire argument is about the money!! I know zakat, sadaqa, reciting Yaseen and other ayat.

How will I know you spent the money in the right way and not cast your own spells on me? you have to understand, I have five families of muzare working on my land in Pakistan. They don't question anything... and this trick can work with them... but sorry not me. I made the mistake of reading Quran with Tafseer :)

How much Sarge? how much do you make doing this? I am very interested in finding new business... controlling muzare and farming is not giving me enough money to buy latest mercedez like the gadi nasheen who has 10 murabas next to mine.

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Yes Chora,

I can guide you on how to BUST these scams so they cannot enslave our next generation. Use it to free any of your relative if you find them in trouble.

The main trick is to attend mehfils with them and then do the test. Most of them will fall for the money/gift trap!! The authentic ones will pay no attention to money and tell you to go make sadaqah or donate money to some charity or recite aayats from certain Surahs.

I will be posting another phone call from this person to further show you how seriously authentic he was and how he was running his show from last 10 years and NO-ONE thought about challenging Pir sahib (as-ususal). The Islamic organization who he is affiliated with is going to meet him in gyarween mehfil and open the eyes of about 50-60 regular mureeds.

So far the few Mureeds who have heard all calls have been devastated and one even started crying since he had sacrificed so much from last 10 years. Too bad he cannot get them back, but definately in Aakhirah. May Allah show us the right path.