Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Just like you have been selling your own people out to the highest bidder for all your history. Just like Hamid Karzai is doing today and just like you did to Saeed Ahmed....
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Your a complete idiot, if you are Punjabi you are an embarassement to Punjabis everyhwere. Although there is a good change you may be an Indian or Afgan trying to have some good times starting fights.
Go crawl back into your toilet you moron that kind of racist stupidity is almost painfull to read.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
[quote]
Your a complete idiot, if you are Punjabi you are an embarassement to Punjabis everyhwere.
[/quote]
I agree..
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
You dont have to agree with me. After reading his posts over it is clear he is an Indian\Afgan pretending to be a punjabi randomly bashing other ethnicities on a Pakistani message board. Dude that is a damn weak activity for a Wednesday afternoon. Get a life, a gf or something. I'm almost embarassed to think that the human race has pathetic members like this. I might dislike Isreal and what it stands for, but never in my life have I felt the need to go on an Isreali chatroom, make a false identity and post away LOL. How bloody pathetic is that LOL
Thats just sad indeed.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
U know what? u r a bigger idiot. I bet u r not a punjabi yourself.. just adopting 786 in your name doesnt prove u r a punjabi/pakistani/muslim. I am 100% muslim- forefathers were sikhs converted to Islam long back. And I am a pakka Pakistani- I come from the famous Kotli Loharan in Sialkot District.. Our family has a business in Raja Bazar area. How dare you assume I am an Indian/Afghan? just cuz you found me thrashing ppl of your zaat (Indians, hindoos whatever).. who starts fights first? we punjabis? Oh no.. dont force me go into that.. it is very personal to me.. Go to Karachi and find out and then talk to me.. Oh, I forgot that you need a visa to go to Karachi to meet your relatives.. dude, u go and get a life or a gf..
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
You will hear it till eternity. Keep your stats right, these ethnic groups are not named after their provinces, instead these provinces are named after these ethnic groups. A Karachite is the dweller of Karachi city. You have failed to merge in the larger community and thats your blunder, sociologically speaking.
The congruency of the ethnic groups not withstanding, the point here is that if you claim "ownership" of a given province, then you will face greater polarization. Go ahead and raise the slogan of Punjab is for Punjabis, then see the results.
What "larger community" are you talking about? It is obvious from this thread that a "Pakistani community" does not exist. A bigger blunder would be to adapt to a certain community in a subservient manner.
Besides that I wonder on the arguments that only upper and upper middle class people migrated to Pakistan and that they were bureaucrats and Nawabs. I wish the government of Pakistan opens up its archives to people and allows us access to vital records. Factually speaking, the migrants were the lower middle class and poor people mostly with rare exceptions of some rich families. Nawab Sahab, had he loved this country should not have aspired to bring in whole UP here to ensure he gets elected to the Parliament. This was the first reason, Quaid e Azam felt miserable. There was no scheme of migration as such during partition plan. Had it been, we would not have left hundreds of millions of muslims in India.
I never stated that Muhajirs were of the upper classes. The Muhajirs of the lower classes or the poor may not have had material wealth, but they were not beholden to their wadero, sardar etc. A tradition of the value of education was there, whether it had been available in India or not.
The glory you attribute to your first generation is skin deep. Most of the so called bureaucrats were clerks in Indian civil services. I tell you why they opt for Pakistan. A grade 12 stenographer was posted as Deputy Commisioner in Pakistan and most 17-18 grade officers were posted on two-three up positions.
Ok even I if concede that point, lets talk about how the Punjabi Muslims were doing in pre-partition India? With the exception of the military, they were outclassed by the Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs, living a wretched existence. So that Stenographer or a low level banker was still more trained than the average Punjabi Muslim who had been kept down by the elites.
If you came for love of the country, why have you holed up in Karachi? Besides this, your being enlightenend race is vindicated by the terrorism you have wreaked on the local populace who welcomed you. Look at your Representatives and think if they could scarcely conform to an educated race you claim yourself to be?
You cannot dictate migration patterns, they are derived from opportunities and circumstances. Ha, it arguable to say that the local populace welcomed Muhajirs, in some instance it did. Just look at the jokers on this thread with their personal attacks. Yes, lets discuss the leadership of Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz and compare their economic performance to the predecessors.
I am not critical of Muhajirs but when it comes to term them to be the most civilised amongst the rest of the people, my blood boils. Superiority comes later, be our equal first.
This is not about superiority, it is about tradition. Am I claiming the martial abilities of Muhajirs? How many random Punjabis have claimed their group to martial? Saying that the Memon community excels in business is fact. Muhajirs, considering their population size have had an oversized impact in areas of academics, professional employment etc. That is a fact. Muhajirs being a non Feudal community contributes towards a greater political empowerment along with the ability to ascertain the available opportunities.
No civilised person can be happy on the murder of LAK but at the same time no one can be happy on the lamentation of founder of nation's sister who couldnt just resort to her imagination only when she accused LAK for conspirating against Jinnah.
Hearsay and conjecture does not constitute proof. I am not here to disprespect the sister of the Quaid, but contextual basis of her reactions have to be established. A noted Pakistani writer A. Jalal argued that creation of Pakistan itself was not Quaid E Azam's goal based on suppositions of many of the associates of the Quaid, will you believe that as well?
LAK as the second in command had not usurped any of the powers or the leadership of the Quaid. While I am not doubting that he was a politician: He also knew that his time would come after the Quaid. Are you accusing him of murdering Quaid E Azam? A yes or no response is all that is needed.
Regarding Fatima Jinnah, the Muhajir support for her more than well documented. So don't even TRY to create a division where one doesn't exist.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
quas, you call yourself a Pakistani and then try to insult a community that was at the forefront of of Pakistan movement?
Hate is not an antidote to hate.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
^
Sindhis are always supportive of "us." That is the biggest joke on this thread. Jeay Sindh, Kalabagh Dam, countless upon countless protests, articles etc talk about Punjabi domination.
I am not saying who is right who wrong here, these are just the facts.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
I am going to ignore this joker. He wants me to insult Punjabis, I am not falling for it. Besides we have to realize that only people that are miserable resort to personal attacks like these.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Pakistan's fuedal structure is the biggest evil. I agree with LOTD in regards to this game of politics being played upon the masses. If we talk about communities as:
Liberated: Free from the shackles of the overlords, the ability to pursue education and later find employment of choosing.
UnLiberated: Under the control of the overlord, bound by traditions and constrained by local society.
If we use these definitions, then only Bengalis, Muhajirs communities could be considered "liberated" meaning that the average person has that personal freedom due to the lack of a feudal setup.
With the exceptions of the elites, and the nascent middle class: Pashtuns, Baluchis, Sindhis and a good size of Punjabis labor under the influences of the local leaders. This is the limiting factor when it comes to societal development. In a somewhat cynical manner, I believe that the leaders in Islamabad and the local leaders both prefer this setup. For the local leadership this is a matter of personal survival and for the Federal unit is an effective method of "siliencing the masses" through co-opting their leadership.
I know many people have expressed various forms of hatred towards Bengalis, but the reality is that they were empowered on the local level, and liberated as a community, which is why they did not stand up to the electoral frauds and injustices perpetuated against them. When I say "they" I am referring to the average person. Furthermore, their empowerment also led to the later realization of the intentions of Mujiburrahman, which were evident in his slaying.
It is not my intention to insult any community of Pakistan, but the fact that I am highlighting Muhajir uniqueness does not constitute a superiority, it is just the reality of the community setup and dymanic which has been conducive to sucess.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Illegal settlements must go. However it looks like MQM is targetting non-Mohajirs. Can anyone confirm if it is true or just an injection of false accusation in a highly charge affair?
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
EZ freshie. If you are’nt an Indian or Afgan and you are just an idiot who is randomly insulting other Pakistanis then you are even worse. Maybe you should convert back to a sikh 
And if I am an Indian LOL, that would be news to my village in Potwar where we been living long before there was ever a Pakistan or even an India
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
What I said was that you are an Indian if and only I am an Indian.. LOL…anyway, I feel sorry if you feel I am insulting other Pakistanis, but I believe that we have to fight the enemy who is hurting from inside.. believe me I have nothing against our generation urdu ppl- they seem to be fine but Indians who migrated in 1947 did not have good intentions. If at all you know, land was alloted in Sindh to those who left/lost their land in India and were Urdu speaking. Similarily, east punjabis were given land in Punjab, Pak. but there was a lot of fraud during land allotment in Sindh as the officers who were deciding how much land one shud get were Indians and recepients were Indians as well and thats it- even a mochi or darzi from India would lie to the officer that he had a bungalow in Agra or Meerut and he would get a haweli left by a Hindu Sindhi… We punjabis were truthful cuz we are paindus 
Obviously, you have a Urdu-speaking gf or a wife or friends so I dont want to hurt your feelings more…
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
You can’t even hurl a comment at me, dear cuz I am a proud Pakistani and not a weak shero-shayari aala dal eating weak Indian 
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
^ Are you saying that Muhajirs are not Pakistanis?
Regarding "weak" Indians. Is racism allowed in Islam? or have you already left Islam?
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Regarding "weak" Indians. Is racism allowed in Islam? or have you already left Islam?
I never said Muhajirs are not Pakistanis.. Looking back it is just one chapter in our history that makes me angry at them and that was when the 1st generation of Indian muslims who chose and migrated to Pak watan- they should have realized that everyone deserves their share regardless of their educational level or their smartness.. they did exactly opposite.. you can't become leader in a new nation migrate to or adapt. Had that process(their settling in Pak) been done right then, there be no Mohajir/Punjabi debate now.. we did welcome our muslims borther from east and expected that we will make a nation that can match any in the region but sadly that never happened.. No, I am still a muslim but I know quality of a person.. I am encouraging others to become healthy human beings like us, the Punjabis- we are known for that. Is that wrong? Thats not raciscm I think..
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Let me get this straight, you are clearly making racial insults towards mohajirs now because or a generation of people who came in 1947 and were allocated property?
Wow, thats a really good excuse. And you dont have to worry about my feelings, I would react the same regardless of the race you were racially abusing.
Suffice to say, your ignorance and bigotry embarasses me. You are a perfect example of why the Pakistani state is a colossal failure.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
[quote]
I am encouraging others to become healthy human beings like us, the Punjabis- we are known for that. Is that wrong? Thats not raciscm I think..
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With due respect, if you are encouraging anything here, it is an oafish outlook. Admit your mistake and move on.
Now can anyone here post anything on topic? antiobl asked a simple question. Can anyone confirm or deny it? Or I would rather this thread were closed.
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
Yaar tu tay naraaz ho gaya. Listen, we are still a nation growing at 8%- 2nd highest in entire Asia but had the likes of Liaqat been still alive our nation would not existed- they cud have easily broken the country with their jingoistic views in atleast 4 parts.. I appreciate both Mushy and Shauqat aziz- they are doing good work but the first generation thought all punjabis are paindu and can be fooled.. again no offense to our generation- they are really patriotic, nice ppl with sense of pride and patriotism towards their country of birth.. see, these Indians who migrated in 1947 did not have sense of attachment for PAkistan since they were born in India..
Re: Pashtuns in Karachi Unite
**The congruency of the ethnic groups not withstanding, the point here is that if you claim “ownership” of a given province, then you will face greater polarization. Go ahead and raise the slogan of Punjab is for Punjabis, then see the results.
What “larger community” are you talking about? It is obvious from this thread that a “Pakistani community” does not exist. A bigger blunder would be to adapt to a certain community in a subservient manner.**
We are facing polariztion already. Karachi is for Muhajirs, right?
I never stated that Muhajirs were of the upper classes. The Muhajirs of the lower classes or the poor may not have had material wealth, but they were not beholden to their wadero, sardar etc. A tradition of the value of education was there, whether it had been available in India or not.
Faulty sampling. Dont compare poor muhajirs with waderas and sardars. Apples with apples my dear. There was a tradition of learning in this part of the sub continent and there were lots of schools, colleges and universities in this area. Besides education, we had skilled manpower of almost any and all kinds.
Ok even I if concede that point, lets talk about how the Punjabi Muslims were doing in pre-partition India? With the exception of the military, they were outclassed by the Punjabi Hindus and Sikhs, living a wretched existence. So that Stenographer or a low level banker was still more trained than the average Punjabi Muslim who had been kept down by the elites.
Still more wretched were those muslims living in UP and CP. There were ICS officers belonging to Punjab/Sindh and NWFP who were in services too but there was an over-whelming support for immigrants arising out of pathetic conditions they met while on way to Pakistan hence they were given preference. While those officers who were here could not manouvere to claim higher posts becuase their records were here and handy, it were the immigrants who were appointed even when they had no documents at all. The reason they were given posts was that they claimed they had lost their documents on way to Pakistan.
To claim that immigrants were enlightened and were people of highest order is stretching it a bit too far. Let me also remind you that we had awareness enough to demand and work for the separate homeland. Sindh Assembly passed the first resolution and Pakistan resolution was passed in Lahore.
You cannot dictate migration patterns, they are derived from opportunities and circumstances. Ha, it arguable to say that the local populace welcomed Muhajirs, in some instance it did. Just look at the jokers on this thread with their personal attacks. Yes, lets discuss the leadership of Musharraf and Shaukat Aziz and compare their economic performance to the predecessors.
I dont support personal attacks as it is immoral and uncalled for in a civilised discussions. Musharraf and Shaukat as leaders and Economic Managers? I dont consider them to be. They are thriving on the after-effects of 9/11 and anyone could have done a lot better than them, had they been on the scene instead of them.
This is not about superiority, it is about tradition. Am I claiming the martial abilities of Muhajirs? How many random Punjabis have claimed their group to martial? Saying that the Memon community excels in business is fact. Muhajirs, considering their population size have had an oversized impact in areas of academics, professional employment etc. That is a fact. Muhajirs being a non Feudal community contributes towards a greater political empowerment along with the ability to ascertain the available opportunities.
Some socioloical terms have unfortunately been over-blowned while others as bad have been squeezed. Feudals versus Urban tyrants are equal. No wonder, rural and urban Pakistan is backward.
**Hearsay and conjecture does not constitute proof. I am not here to disprespect the sister of the Quaid, but contextual basis of her reactions have to be established. A noted Pakistani writer A. Jalal argued that creation of Pakistan itself was not Quaid E Azam’s goal based on suppositions of many of the associates of the Quaid, will you believe that as well?
LAK as the second in command had not usurped any of the powers or the leadership of the Quaid. While I am not doubting that he was a politician: He also knew that his time would come after the Quaid. Are you accusing him of murdering Quaid E Azam? A yes or no response is all that is needed.
Regarding Fatima Jinnah, the Muhajir support for her more than well documented. So don’t even TRY to create a division where one doesn’t exist.**
Yes. LAK abused his power and lacked the leadership qualities. He not only disappointed Jinnah, he disappointed all Pakistanis because of his inept policies both foreign and domestic.