PARENTS - THE ENEMIES OF THEIR DAUGHTERS

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Salafi,

Just tell me how keeping long hair makes people dirty. I think cutting hair or keeping them is a fashion, men in victorian ages in Europe kept long hair (in braid and in curls). On Indian sub-continent everybody wore turbans - at one point Mughals forbade Hindus from riding on a horse and wearing a turban.

You have raised many interesting questions..it is not natural to have sex in open that is why human spieces doesn't practice it nor in the groups as described by you because human child has a long childhood and lot of attention from two parents and extended family. Human skin needs some protection it doesn't hold very well without clothes. Read Naked Ape by 'Dr Morris' you will find out what is natural and what is not and why it is not.

Mudayaa,

The turban was dress code design to stand out so that everybody knew that this person was a Sikh. This was done to raise an army of people who were brave and stood out and couldn't change their mind as to who they were when moghal armies or sympathizer came to fight them. Turban has nothing to do with Karma but lot to do with fighting off injustice and forced conversion.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 07, 2000).]

22

rani, who said anything about turbans? can u read? Muslim men are also told to cover their heads like sikhs but with a topi and not a turban. similarly Muslim men are also PRESCRIBED to grow a beard. Again its something PRESCRIBED and not ENFORCED just like pardah isnt ENFORCED for women.

i just wanted to make a point that next time u open ur mouth and put down Islam just cos it recommends a dress code for muslims...... u oughta think twice.

im glad that we agree that covering ur body is more civilized. and having sex in the open is a characteristic of animals and not humans. similarly worshipping lingum and other sex objects is also to say the least perverted. teachings of sex in holy books also is a brain child of sick minds.... and not suitable for children to read.

23

Mundayaa,

You got it all wrong and started your usual route of putting down hinduism. You are driven by hate and you have no knowledge of hinduism. I am not talking about decent or indecent the privacy needed for sex is ingrained in our genetics not a rule made by a religious leader - go read some books about human behavior and religions of the world before preaching what is good for women.

24

Rani
i think you have issues to take care of. covering a womans body does not take away he independance, it protects her. Being able to show all the body you want does nit insure that the woman will be independant. As for not being able to travel alone: its also for protection.

You think about this for a while: if there are two women standing on the street one is wearing a tight mini skirt w/ a tank top and the other covered up, and a horny ass amn happens to walk by: Who do you think hed want to violate. not the one covered up! What if she gets pregnant after that. Now who is benefited form that.
Also a woman from around wher i live was at a ATM alone at night w/ her 8yr old son. A guy drives by puts bith of em in the car rapes her and throws her ot the car and leaves. Now if she had a guy w/ her i dotn think taht man would have stopped to get her!!

These rules rnt made up to lock women inside they protect women.

And i did research on hinduism in high school and i was outraged by my findings.
If a hindu woman'shusband dies she is to burn herself w/ him, if she does not she is reduced to wearing a white saree, w/ a bald head she cant wear shoes she cant groom herself, neither can she remarry. And it is states in the hindu holy book that woman is inferior to man!![it says nothing like that in the Quran]Now tell me WHICH RELIGION TAKES THE INDEPENDANCE OF A WOMAN AWAY?????????????????????? food for thought!

Now that teh world is more "modern" all that has changed. Now tell me what type of belief leaves their teachings behind as the world moves on.
I am not speaking out of hatred [as you might say] just outta what I found in my research!

BRAIN:Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

25

Rani, i was talking about your theories of freedom and choice to walk naked and have sex in the open. Since had you answered this question it would shown clearly the contradictions in your statements. Anyway, you said above: "Hindu and Sikh women are not instructed to cover their bodies so that men don't get tempted or live in polygamy"

So we assume, according to hinduism and sikhism, it is perfectly okay for a woman to walk outside naked. Or is your religion incomplete?

In Islaam a man is obligated to provide for his wife and children. Whereas in your so-called modern society, both are equal. So we see that all over the world poor women, are working away in hard labour jobs often with their kids, while their husbands enjoy films and drinking. Whereas in Islaam a man is obligated to do this work, and the woman can stay at home with her children.

Once again, the 1400 year old Islaamic law has been shown to be superior than modern laws.

So the unbeliever was left dumbfounded, his argument was overthrown, silenced, struck dumb and falsehood was rendered futile as is alway the case.

26

rani, u need to read books so u can get over the hindu specialties of dildo worshipping and brahman teachings of devdasies of turning every low class shoodar into prostitutes like ur ancestors.

animal worshippers have a long way to go before they can be upto par with other humans. so keep reading those books and share them with the millions of prostitutes of india so they can learn some basic morals humans have.

27

Offdain and Shaffli,

You are trying to bring out the extreme examples to justify control and slavery of women. Men can also tempt women, therefore they should also wear burka and they can get murdered and killed they should work under police escort. People even die crossing the road or walking on the sidewalk therefore according to you we should ban all the cars from the roads or nobody should allowed to walk on the sidewalk.

We don't live in 7th century anymore you are using extreme cases to justify ill treatment and slavery of women.

Offdain wrote..i think you have issues to take care of

When you start getting personal it is an indication that you have lost the discussion. Please stick to the discussion on hand there is no need to pass personal comments.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 08, 2000).]

28

mundyaa, you don't lay it off, do you?

You have to keep saying the same thing over and over again thinking that you can hurt somebody with it. Dude, that's one sick and sinister thought right there.

29

why dont you prove me wrong?

  1. religious prostitutes in devdasies
  2. animal worshipping
  3. perverted teachings in kamasutra
  4. dildo worshipping in lingum
  5. caste system

if ppl like rani can blame Islam and Muslims repeatedly for whatever reasons and bring up things like clothing thats prescribed for muslim women. Then whats so harmful about discussing the hindu teachings? its not my fault that these teachings are sick perverted and abnoxious. If you want to blame.... blame the brahman for creating this sick faith.

30

So by your rationale, when you say Hindu hookers and tie prostitutions with religious teachings, using words like dildos and call others members' ancestors prostitutes, you are proving your point?

Quite frankly, I've yet to see Rani's calling your ancestors prostitutes (Although I'm sure we all share the same ancestors; more or less). And by the token and manner of your speeches, I have not really seen her calling Mohammad's wives prostitutes or Allah's raping the Mary and having Jesus out.

The point is, if you are gonna take that route then trust me, there is a lot more stuff that can be twisted in Islam than you can find in any other religion. Unless, of course, you don't really care and are simply getting your ticks out of by insulting others.

You feel all that protected and safe, sitting here on a site run by Muslim administration with majority of Muslim members and keep on deriding minority religions cause you can't face the same heat on the sites run by some of the other religious groups who prejudicially slander Islam.

You are so much sure to demand and expect from moderation of the forum to delete and edit anything against Islam if the word 'dildo' is ever associated with some of its religious personalities but when it comes to other religions, you get your own sick pleasures out of humiliating others.

It's not about proving something right or wrong, it's about to what extent you can insult others. Well, if you are gonna play that game, why don't you do it where you get equivalent number of opponents? Why hunt down just the few minority members here?

Religion is a subjective matter anyway, there is no proving or disproving, it's only about faith and belief and everybody has the equal right of it. Nobody has any right to point fingures on others' religious beliefs. I'm sure you know that, but you just don't want to practice it.

The funniest thing is that all these mushy mashy Muslim members here close their eyes when people like you use the selective phrases about others ancestors and religions, but the minute somebody says something about Mohammad, everybody's ass is on fire. Well, it hurts, doesn't it?

It takes a lot more character than just being a Muslim to look at all religions equally but may be your religion does not teach you that.

31

what u r basically saying is we shouldnt discuss hinduism here? lingum worshipping is part of hinduism. caste system is part of hinduism. devdasies are part of hinduism. so are rat, snake, and cow worshipping.

if a person like rani can bring up clothing code to blame Islam over and over again....... then give me one good reason why I shouldnt bring up devdasies to blame hinduism?

so its okay if Islam gets puts down here for pious things like covering your body.... yet if i blame a religion and its preachers for producing millions of religious prostitutes devdasies and 300 million low caste shoodars, then i'm to blame for it?

have i cursed hindu gods krishna, shiva and otehrs? no. have i questioned hindu teachings? yes. have i cursed brahmans? no. have i questioned the existence of 300 million shoodars? yes. have i blamed and cursed those millions of hindu prostitutes? no. have i blamed the brahmans who have turned them into prostitutes? yes.

if you want to question Islamic teachings then be my guest. ppl have questioned shariah laws and we have answered them. ppl have questioned polygamy... we have explained the conditions for them.

if the things about hinduism are sick and disgusting.... its not my fault if they gross u out. truth must be heard.

[This message has been edited by mundyaa (edited July 08, 2000).]

32

No, what I'm basically saying is that in response to Rani's

[quote]
What are you talking about, Hindu and Sikh women are not instructed to cover their bodies so that men don't get tempted or live in polygamy. Sikhism treats men and women equally - In Sikh scripture everybody is addressed as human being no set of instruction (like the one posted by Jawaan and Bhoola)for dress code or behavior specifically for women. In Sikhism men or women can be a religious leader or officiate religious service and women officiate religious services regularly. Since 1947 when fanatics (muslims) left India for Pakistan, Indian women feel lot more free and independent. It was muslim influence that has kept India women indoor.

Please look towards Arabia and Iran and you will find them treating their women same way as you do.
[/quote]

Your

[quote]
rani, u need to read books so u can get over the hindu specialties of dildo worshipping and brahman teachings of devdasies of turning every low class shoodar into prostitutes like ur ancestors.
[/quote]
is hardly a response a decent person will produce.

Rani is making a huge and ignorant generalization since she is not a Muslim herself. It is also very easy for her to sit on the high chair of feminism and pick and choose certain Islamic practices without much knowledge of them and bash the whole religion. Her point of view is on the topic is not sincere as well because it were, she would do some research and seek authentic sources and look at the issue objectively and won't use the phrase "fanatics (muslims)..." in her post.

Same is the case with you when you talk about Hinduism. She is simply retorting, just the same as you are but the difference is at least she's been decent about it 'cause I don't see her calling your ancestors prostitues.

33

if there are 250,000 devdasies in one state of india and 300 million shoodars TODAY… then the treatment sikh ancestors must have gotten from the hands of brahmans is not far from these devdasies and shoodars.

if they were so happy under the brahman rule they wouldnt have converted to sikhism and other religions back then. and even today wouldnt be so keep to convert to christianity under the hindu fund govt.

u can give an award of manners to rani for her well written insults of Islam based on clothing that covers a womans body… but u cant hold us back for making a parallel comparison as to what happens to women in their religons who are preached into prostitution.

I hope thats not much to ask.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif

34

Rani
men can also get killed, everyone can get killed; anytime anyday anywhere. But how many women get raped in one day and how many men get raped in one day. SO who do you think needs more protection men or women?

Women cah also tempt men but they dont kidnapp em off da street and rape them!!

Having a certain type of wardrobe does not have anything to do with slavery of women, just because you dress a certain way does not ensure you freedom, or slavery.

And im trying to justify slavery::When in your religion as i already said a woman is nothing w/o a man. When her hubby dies she must die with him and if she duznt she is forced to a life of a slave(no hair, only white clothes, no grooming, cant remarry,).
You tell me how that is fair to woman just because the hindu society is more modern and does not comply w/ those rules does not mean they have changed. They are still there and i want you to explain how they GIVE WOMEN INDIPENDANCE

Also tell me why is the man so improtant that the wife must stay hungry all day long just so that he can have a long life, what about her long life i dont c the men praying fasting for their wife’s long life. In islam on the other hand in ramzan you fast for yourself ONLY!! be it a man or a woman!
{
I am not trying to put hinduism down but just questioning its teachings. Are your teachings[hinduism] so strong in feminism that you have the right to attack Islam for treating women as slaves.

I cant believe how you disrespect Islam so much and when some says something about hinduism they dont agree with you get all defensive and call it “hate”.

JUST FOR THE RECORD IM ALSO A WOMAN!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif

BRAIN:Are you pondering what I’m pondering?

[This message has been edited by offdachain (edited July 09, 2000).]

35

mundyaa, may be you can learn something from offdachain here. Trust me, that's a striking opportunity for you, don't miss it.

36

Rani, please do not insult us by trying to associate yourself with our women, those who have chosen to follow the religion, for we consider there is no comparison between the likes of you and our believing women. The women you are trying to defend would consider the likes of you to be hookers(only stating other women's opinion). So speak for yourself. In fact there are many women have started following their religion and covering themselves up, and as a result they have been threatened by their families with violence for doing this.

Yes, how do the Saudis treat their women? The men work and have to provide the living expenses for their families and not the women. Unlike in most of India, where women are forced to work, and being unable to find work, they turn to prostitution, thereby increasing the spread of Aids. Yes, india has millions of victims of Aids and many more with HIV. Do us all a favour, try and keep this within your own country, for we are not in need of it.

37

I am not trying to put hinduism down but just questioning its teachings. Are your teachings[hinduism] so strong in feminism that you have the right to attack Islam for treating women as slaves. <<

well said offdachain. the issue was parents forcing their women into illiteracy. i think we all agree that if thats done in the name of Islam... then thats wrong. There is nothing in Islam that discourages education for women. As a matter of fact its appreciated. There are all women schools in almost all muslim countries so those conservative muslims have no reason to keep women illiterate. Heck, there are excellent all women schools here in US. When prophet Mohammad (pbuh) said that "get educated, even if you have to go china".... there is no indication that its applicable to only men.

38

The certain type of wardrobe you are talking about is not a fashion statement it is design to take away freedom and make women look dowdy.

I denouce all kinds of meaningless rituals in any religion. To me being a good person (don't want to go in lengthy explanations) is more important then following any particular religion blindly. I believe that all people are born equal believers and non-believer, men and women, God loves them all and everybody is responsible for their morality we don't need men to gaurd women so that they stay straight or vice versa.

Religion is evolving and changing with times and Hinduism needs reforms, I am all for the them. Recently Supreme Court of India overode the Hindu law to give Husband and wife an equal share in the maritial property. In India according to the law sons and daughters have equal right to the property. I know many Hindu women running successful business after death of their spouces. We have come long way and have long way to go.

P.S1. BTW, I am Sikh but respect Hinduism and share cultural values with Hindus.

P.S2 This is my last post on this thread, I find no point in carrying this discussion any further in the face of filth hurled at me by Mundayaa.

39

Safali

The women you are trying to defend would consider the likes of you to be hookers(only stating other women's opinion).<<

You disgust me and you are pathetic. There is lot more to morality then covering one self up but stupid idiots like you don't realize that. Men I know consider person like you weak, immoral idiot, women abuser and a pimp (only stating other men's opinion).

P.S. I can now understand why women in your religion have to cover themselves up from head to to toe - they have no choice with men like you around.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 09, 2000).]

40

Really Rani! is that a fact. Have you been living on planet mars? Well not to worry, we’ll aquaint you with what’s happening on our planet.?

Here are some statistics from the USA, which for the likes of you is seen as a model, that all other societies should follow.

One Rape/Attempted occurs every 1.6 minutes.
84% of all rapes are committed by an acquaitance of the victim.
1 in 4 girls will be sexually assaulted before their 18th birthday.
The USA has the rate world’s highest of rape.
(Source: www.pcar.org))

Wow! are these the men you were talking about earlier, when you said: “Men I know consider person like you weak, immoral idiot, women abuser and a pimp (only stating other men’s opinion)”. As I said earlier, speak for yourself and those who are like you.

Well Allah says “We fling the truth against the falsehood and it(truth) smashes it’s(falsehood) brains out.”(21:18)

And it certainly seems to have left your brain confuzed and dazed, since you seem to be talking nothing but gibberish.

So the unbeliever was left dumbfounded, his argument was overthrown, silenced, struck dumb and falsehood was rendered futile as is alway the case.