I fail to understand how this arms deal would affect the current steps towards reconciliation between Pakistan and India. …
India has been on good terms with the Israel and has signed accords and is negotiating deals in order to acquire state of the art technologies, which included the Phalcon Airborne Aircraft System and Arrow Ballistic Missile System which are without doubt potential force multipliers.
This time around the United States has agreed to supply arms to both India and Pakistan. However despite getting its due share which would add to India’s offensive capability; Indians are not happy at all with the upcoming arms deal between Pakistan and the United States. According to the reports, India’s Defence Minister Parnab Mukerjee in his meeting with the US Defence Secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, during his recent India visit said, ‘‘supplying weapons like F-16 fighter aircraft, lethal missile systems and naval reconnaissance aircraft to Pakistan at this juncture would affect the peace process.’’ The United States has however, unequivocally stated that the weapons systems to be supplied to Pakistan are aimed at countering terrorism which however is rejected by the Indians.
While India is clearly amassing military equipment not just from its erstwhile strategic partner Russia and has been able to cash on its newfound rapprochement with US and its enhanced diplomatic ties with Israel, it clearly is irked aPakistan’s acquisition of arms from the United States. What justifies Indian acquisition but not Pakistan’s given the huge military imbalance is certainly beyond comprehension. The US tilt towards Indians, its interest in the huge Indian market and keenness on part of US to forge strategic and military ties should be enough to make Indians feel safe on all fronts.
Certainly, such pronouncements as above referring to the arms sales to Pakistan by US ultimately affecting the peace process in South Asia are totally flawed. Given the imbalance, Pakistan needs to take care and enhance its defense capabilities if not by matching India on every front but atleast by staying at a close enough level whereby avoiding the dangerous asymmetry that exists between the two countries. US would do well by not paying heed to such statements, as Pakistan remains an important and responsible ally in its war against terrorism. An approach favoring one country over the other would clearly not bear about the desired results.
Free Weapons to Pakistan => Pak Generals invoke 1 Muslim=10 Hindu formula => Pak Generals start dreaming of marching into Srinagar => They try Kargil, 1965 like adventures or restart big support to jihad => It backfires => Lots of lives lost => Peace process becomes toast
See India is happy with its piece of Kashmir. There’s no danger of India starting wars over Pakistani Kashmir. Pakistan’s Generals see Kashmir like a kid sees candy, given a choice it will always try to get it.
Yes we are sooooooooooo scared. In fact, India is just ready to prepare an instrument of surrender and reappoint Musharraf as the next in line to Bahadur Shah Zafar
If our weapons accusitions are at the cost of peace... Well then so be it. Should we sacrafice our soul just so India should "honor" us with its own brand of Peace? They can threaten the peace talks all they want, either its a mutual desire for peace or its no peace at all.
We are an independant nation and no one has the right to black mail us, certainly not India.
I see this as another of Indias Bara bhai chota bhai mentality, while they can purchase all the weapons under the sun to fullfill their local super power ambitions, we have to relegate ourselves to the point that its only through their approval that we should be allowed the same privlege! If India thinks we are going to be bullied it has another thing coming.
If thats the case then why all this whining to America bussiness?
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It's diplomacy.
If Bush feels that a few F-16s are the price to pay for Pakistan handing over a few terrorists hidden in the basement of Aiwan-e-Sadr, then Pakistan will get F-16s - no matter who complains.
India hopes that when this deal goes thru over Indian objections, the US will feel inclined to give India the stuff it wants - hi-tech, space co-operation and Arrow missiles, C-130Js etc.
If Bush feels that a few F-16s are the price to pay for Pakistan handing over a few terrorists hidden in the basement of Aiwan-e-Sadr, then Pakistan will get F-16s - no matter who complains.
India hopes that when this deal goes thru over Indian objections, the US will feel inclined to give India the stuff it wants - hi-tech, space co-operation and Arrow missiles, C-130Js etc.
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So by that same logic, does that mean that if Pakistan doesnt get its fighters, India wont get the stuff it wants?
I dont think so... Most of those things are in the bag.
So by that same logic, does that mean that if Pakistan doesnt get its fighters, India wont get the stuff it wants?
I dont think so... Most of those things are in the bag.
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Pakistan is going to get F-16s. Given the amount of whining in Pak media and official circles and the number of time Musharraf talks about it, US will have to give them for Musharraf to save face.
As to Indian govt, it will have to realize that given the American freebies and debt write offs, Pakistan will probably hit the weapons market with a vengeance. Maybe it's time to consider doubling the defence budget, or more.
Pakistan is going to get F-16s. Given the amount of whining in Pak media and official circles and the number of time Musharraf talks about it, US will have to give them for Musharraf to save face.
As to Indian govt, it will have to realize that given the American freebies and debt write offs, Pakistan will probably hit the weapons market with a vengeance. Maybe it's time to consider doubling the defence budget, or more.
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I dont understand why you Indians always seem to precieve yourselves as this innocent naive young nation being victimized by the biigest little problem at your gates. India is just as rutheless and coniving in it pursuit of strategic depth as any other nation. India has long thrown of its Gandhian ethos, and it definently not arming itself just to defend her poor nation from us blood thirsty Paks.
India will get advanced technology regardless of whether or not Pakistan gets them, because while our weapons buying spree is motivated by India, India is in no way driven towards expanding its arsenal based solely on its precieved threats from Pakistan.
India will get these technologies eventually, in fact I have heard they already got the clearance for the arrow radar system from Israel...
Remember you are America's great White hope in the face of China, so what makes you think that will ever change?
Talwar! I could be wrong, but yr post suggest that you'r un aware of the fact that PAF already has the squadron of F-16s.
However thats the conventional stuff and can not be the 'lead' weapon in a war scenerio, if you'r willing to give us this much credit for understanding then note that Pakistan does not rely on 'Showcase weapons' thats why it has an ambicious N-Detterent being advanced by the hour.
I dont understand why you Indians always seem to precieve yourselves as this innocent naive young nation being victimized by the biigest little problem at your gates. India is just as rutheless and coniving in it pursuit of strategic depth as any other nation. India has long thrown of its Gandhian ethos, and it definently not arming itself just to defend her poor nation from us blood thirsty Paks.
India will get advanced technology regardless of whether or not Pakistan gets them, because while our weapons buying spree is motivated by India, India is in no way driven towards expanding its arsenal based solely on its precieved threats from Pakistan.
India will get these technologies eventually, in fact I have heard they already got the clearance for the arrow radar system from Israel...
Remember you are America's great White hope in the face of China, so what makes you think that will ever change?
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India doesn't need anyone's help to defend herself. The theory about India being used by the US against China is just that.
The issue is whether a war between India and Pakistan is in US interests or the interests of any weapon supplier nation to Pakistan.
If the US says it wants to avoid war in South Asia as it does every day, we are just pointing out a simple, historically proven adage to them that giving Free/Disocunted weapons to Pakistan will result in Pak Generals trying military stunts over Kashmir, causing lots of deaths and nuclear angst.
It's like a dog and the lamp post thing. When given a little bit of wiggle room, Pakistani rulers always try to reclaim their mythical Mughal mantle (and fail). For regional stability, you need a Pakistan whose rulers understand that military adventures are bad. That in turn requires Pakistan's lenders to weild tight control on the purse strings.
Whose the one crying right now? Indians. If your not scared, let Pakistan, a soverign nation acquire whatever it desires. Face it, besides quantity, quality is definately lacking on your end.
Note that I am not going to some Indian forum crying about the lage size of the Indian armed forces, catch the drift?
Whose the one crying right now? Indians. If your not scared, let Pakistan, a soverign nation acquire whatever it desires. Face it, besides quantity, quality is definately lacking on your end.
Note that I am not going to some Indian forum crying about the lage size of the Indian armed forces, catch the drift?
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Yes sir, we are soooo lacking in quality. After all us poor dark skinned short Hindus are only 1/10 of your tall brave Muslim warriors' worth. It is our poor dark skinned low quality soliders's luck that they were on the winning side in wars against your superior tall, brave troops.
Yes sir, we are soooo lacking in quality. After all us poor dark skinned short Hindus are only 1/10 of your tall brave Muslim warriors' worth. It is our poor dark skinned low quality soliders's luck that they were on the winning side in wars against your superior tall, brave troops.
It's just plain silly dumb luck I tell ya.
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Talwar you are a brave man. That usually is the case for all the men from the land of King Lallu Parsad.
However this thread wasn't about brave men like you. It was rather directed towards those little pesky black looking Bharatis who were kissing Rummi's shoes and crying hoarse about F-Shikshteens.
So there is no need to take this Minerva's thoughts personally. Everyone knows by now the strong bonds between you and the His Highness King LP.
India doesn't need anyone's help to defend herself. The theory about India being used by the US against China is just that.
The issue is whether a war between India and Pakistan is in US interests or the interests of any weapon supplier nation to Pakistan.
If the US says it wants to avoid war in South Asia as it does every day, we are just pointing out a simple, historically proven adage to them that giving Free/Disocunted weapons to Pakistan will result in Pak Generals trying military stunts over Kashmir, causing lots of deaths and nuclear angst.
It's like a dog and the lamp post thing. When given a little bit of wiggle room, Pakistani rulers always try to reclaim their mythical Mughal mantle (and fail). For regional stability, you need a Pakistan whose rulers understand that military adventures are bad. That in turn requires Pakistan's lenders to weild tight control on the purse strings.
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America using Indians as a counter weight to China is not just a theory, and you know this as well as I do... America has a long term strategic intrest in India and therefore it will do its utmost to help India in almost anyway possible.
We in Pakistn
This so called Mughal mantel we seek to reclaim seems to revolve solely around Kashmir, which isnt even a Hindu state. No one in Pakistan wants an inch of INDIAN territory. We could care less what happens in UP. Even if Pakistan were capable of taking over India no one would have any intrest in Indian territory, except for the area know as Kashmir, which we ont consider to be Indian territory, and that too only the Valley. If we were trying to carry on the Mughul mantel, we would have been trying to take Delhi from the start. The reality, perhaps contrary to what you have been taught is that we would like nothing more then to keep as far from India the nation as possible. Remember its your politicians that are so keen on some kind of Union..
Whether Pakistan has a itchy trigger finger or not is your assesment. History is open to interpretation. But regardless, WE are the ones calling for peace, while you people are the one dragging your feet about, and constantly trying to intimidate us with you lame bravado.
Whether or not you agree, India has absolutely no right in interfering in Pakistans matters, be they defensive or otherwise. Particularly now with the so called peace talks taking place.
America using Indians as a counter weight to China is not just a theory, and you know this as well as I do... America has a long term strategic intrest in India and therefore it will do its utmost to help India in almost anyway possible.
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Can you name a few things that India is doing today that fits this theory? For instance, America is using Pakistan today to fight terrorists. This can be substantiated by the presence of American troops in Pakistan, financial aid and joint operations. Can you se anything similar with India and China?
American interest in India is based mainly on economics and a long term struggle against jihadi terrorism.
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Whether Pakistan has a itchy trigger finger or not is your assesment. History is open to interpretation.
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This is funny. History is based on facts. There are no two opinions about how Kargil or 1965 began. I can post a few dozen links from neutral experts pointing out who has the wargoing itch in South Asia.
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But regardless, WE are the ones calling for peace, while you people are the one dragging your feet about, and constantly trying to intimidate us with you lame bravado.
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India also calls for peace mister. But Pakistan's calling for peace doesn't erase a history of irrational military adventures. The facts, recent and otherwise, speak for themselves.
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Whether or not you agree, India has absolutely no right in interfering in Pakistans matters, be they defensive or otherwise. Particularly now with the so called peace talks taking place.
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Sure. But India has a right to use diplomacy - it is not the same as interfering internally. Pakistan too protested wildly when India bought weapons recently.
